I'm a new-ish DM running a game with a Necromancer and I was wondering if she can reanimate slain skeletons and zombies with the Animate Dead spell. That's to say, if a skeleton or zombie under her control is reduced to 0 HP, can she spend another spell slot to animate it again? As long as the creature wasn't bludgeoned into pieces or blown up, I'm inclined to just let her use a spell slot to bring back her bony accomplices, but wondering what the official rules are.
You cast it on pile of bones or a corpse of a Medium or Small Humanoid within range. So the corpse can be deteriorated by decomposition, wounds etc as long as it's somewhat in one piece, i'd say it works.
Once raised as a zombie, the original creature ceases to be humanoid. When it dies again, it becomes the corpse of a zombie, which is not a valid target for the spell, RAW.
Skeletons are absolutely fair game, even if they get mangled up pretty hard. All you need is a pile of bones - you don't need a fully intact skeleton. Heck, you could technically split a single skeleton into multiple piles of bones and raise multiple skeletons out of a single body.
I think the semantics of the rules have been explored enough for now (though there is room for interpretation of what a dead undead is). The better question, ChimeraObscura, is what effect the various rulings might have on your game?
If you already have a necromancer in your party, and you say that they cannot reanimate their zombies, will that make the game more or less fun for that player? Does that player want to have to find new corpses every day to turn into zombies? Will the player feel punished if you make one ruling versus the other? I'd probably talk to your player about that rather than use the internet's interpretation of what is "correct."
Once raised as a zombie, the original creature ceases to be humanoid. When it dies again, it becomes the corpse of a zombie, which is not a valid target for the spell, RAW.
Oh yeah haven't thought of that, the creature type of the corpse is Undead, rather than Humanoid.
Once raised as a zombie, the original creature ceases to be humanoid. When it dies again, it becomes the corpse of a zombie, which is not a valid target for the spell, RAW.
Oh yeah haven't thought of that, the creature type of the corpse is Undead, rather than Humanoid.
But objects don't have creature types, do they?
Edit: If the thing that makes a corpse into a "corpse of a humanoid" is that the corpse formerly belonged to a humanoid, then a zombie's corpse would still fulfill that requirement.
Personally I would rule that the corpse of a "Human" becomes undead while animated and then returns to just being the corpse of a "human" once it is slain. I don't think that is RAW, but I don't think it really hurts anything either.
I think the semantics of the rules have been explored enough for now (though there is room for interpretation of what a dead undead is). The better question, ChimeraObscura, is what effect the various rulings might have on your game?
If you already have a necromancer in your party, and you say that they cannot reanimate their zombies, will that make the game more or less fun for that player? Does that player want to have to find new corpses every day to turn into zombies? Will the player feel punished if you make one ruling versus the other? I'd probably talk to your player about that rather than use the internet's interpretation of what is "correct."
Yeah, I try to go with the rule of cool (within reason), but I also like to know what the official rules are. I think I've been pretty generous with how the necromancer raises the dead (for example, I have let her raise non-humanoid creatures, and just use the base zombie or skeleton stat), but she is new to the class and hasn't been building an undead army so I definitely want to encourage that.
Basically, she wanted to use downtime to try and create zombies or skeletons that are a little bit beefier than the base creature stat. I want her to lean into the undead minion vibe, so we talked about her carrying the bones of three special skeletons in a bag of holding, and she can animate them into skeletons that have slightly higher stats. I told her that I would check the rules, but that she can probably reanimate them again after they are reduced to zero hit points, so she can keep her beefy skeletons (unless they're crushed into dust or something).
I'm a new-ish DM running a game with a Necromancer and I was wondering if she can reanimate slain skeletons and zombies with the Animate Dead spell. That's to say, if a skeleton or zombie under her control is reduced to 0 HP, can she spend another spell slot to animate it again? As long as the creature wasn't bludgeoned into pieces or blown up, I'm inclined to just let her use a spell slot to bring back her bony accomplices, but wondering what the official rules are.
The official rules are that it works, because no rules exist stopping it. In older editions, this was stopped because slain undead turned to dust, leaving no corpse to re-animate.
Just be aware that letting necromancers reanimate undead into undead raises their threat level through the roof, particularly if they are undead themselves, reducing their need to maintain control of their minions (zombies and skeletons left to their own devices only hunt the living). Your cultures are likely to respond by destroying their corpses to stay safe, so a world like the one you're implying (which, as I said, is consistent with the RAW) probably doesn't bury their dead in the dirt. Cremation is going to be very popular.
It may be a way to prevent zombie animation from the remains of animal beasts and other creature's type and by refering to creature type this way may also prevent zombie reanimation. RAW or RAI either way i agree it's not hurting if DM allows it regardless.
Additionally dead zombie can be stripped to the bones and reanimated as skeletton anyway.
Creatures have types. Corpses do NOT have types. Types only refer to what it used to be, not what it is now. A corpse of a humanoid that became undead is still a corpse of a humanoid.
Moreover, the only raise dead spell that references type is Reincarnate. The other spells work regardless of "type" of corpse. They work dependent upon how long since the body died. The soul must be free and willing. If it is still undead, then it is not free.
That is, BEING undead prevents resurrection, but the fact that you were once undead does not stop resurrection.
Personally I would rule that the corpse of a "Human" becomes undead while animated and then returns to just being the corpse of a "human" once it is slain. I don't think that is RAW, but I don't think it really hurts anything either.
That's also the way I rule it. The RAW doesn't say anything that goes directly against this interpretation. And it just makes more logical sense (though we are talking about magic, so...).
That SAC entry is interesting because it doesn't imply what it maybe wants to. "[T]he body must have belonged to a creature of the humanoid creature type" is still true of a zombie if the zombie was raised from a humanoid (which is the problem I mentioned in #7). It doesn't say most recently or imply that the last creature type the body had is the most important or anything.
Can I cast animate dead on the humanoid-shaped corpse of an undead creature such as a zombie or a ghast?
When animate dead targets a corpse, the body must have belonged to a creature of the humanoid creature type.
If the spell targets a pile of bones, there is no creature type restriction; the bones become a skeleton.
It isn't worth much. It literally doesn't say anything the spell didn't already say. It is worded slightly differently, but not in a way that conveys new or clearer information.
So it can still be interpreted as allowing the targeting of a human corpse that was recently a zombie.
I'm a new-ish DM running a game with a Necromancer and I was wondering if she can reanimate slain skeletons and zombies with the Animate Dead spell. That's to say, if a skeleton or zombie under her control is reduced to 0 HP, can she spend another spell slot to animate it again? As long as the creature wasn't bludgeoned into pieces or blown up, I'm inclined to just let her use a spell slot to bring back her bony accomplices, but wondering what the official rules are.
Maybe. Skeletons, yes, no problem.
Zombies are more open to semantics. Is a dead humanoid zombie a corpse of a humanoid or a corpse of an undead? Your answer as a DM affects the answer.
You cast it on pile of bones or a corpse of a Medium or Small Humanoid within range. So the corpse can be deteriorated by decomposition, wounds etc as long as it's somewhat in one piece, i'd say it works.
Once raised as a zombie, the original creature ceases to be humanoid. When it dies again, it becomes the corpse of a zombie, which is not a valid target for the spell, RAW.
Skeletons are absolutely fair game, even if they get mangled up pretty hard. All you need is a pile of bones - you don't need a fully intact skeleton. Heck, you could technically split a single skeleton into multiple piles of bones and raise multiple skeletons out of a single body.
I think the semantics of the rules have been explored enough for now (though there is room for interpretation of what a dead undead is). The better question, ChimeraObscura, is what effect the various rulings might have on your game?
If you already have a necromancer in your party, and you say that they cannot reanimate their zombies, will that make the game more or less fun for that player? Does that player want to have to find new corpses every day to turn into zombies? Will the player feel punished if you make one ruling versus the other? I'd probably talk to your player about that rather than use the internet's interpretation of what is "correct."
Oh yeah haven't thought of that, the creature type of the corpse is Undead, rather than Humanoid.
But objects don't have creature types, do they?
Edit: If the thing that makes a corpse into a "corpse of a humanoid" is that the corpse formerly belonged to a humanoid, then a zombie's corpse would still fulfill that requirement.
I assume it refers to the type the creature's corpse was when killed.
Personally I would rule that the corpse of a "Human" becomes undead while animated and then returns to just being the corpse of a "human" once it is slain. I don't think that is RAW, but I don't think it really hurts anything either.
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Yeah, I try to go with the rule of cool (within reason), but I also like to know what the official rules are. I think I've been pretty generous with how the necromancer raises the dead (for example, I have let her raise non-humanoid creatures, and just use the base zombie or skeleton stat), but she is new to the class and hasn't been building an undead army so I definitely want to encourage that.
Basically, she wanted to use downtime to try and create zombies or skeletons that are a little bit beefier than the base creature stat. I want her to lean into the undead minion vibe, so we talked about her carrying the bones of three special skeletons in a bag of holding, and she can animate them into skeletons that have slightly higher stats. I told her that I would check the rules, but that she can probably reanimate them again after they are reduced to zero hit points, so she can keep her beefy skeletons (unless they're crushed into dust or something).
The official rules are that it works, because no rules exist stopping it. In older editions, this was stopped because slain undead turned to dust, leaving no corpse to re-animate.
Just be aware that letting necromancers reanimate undead into undead raises their threat level through the roof, particularly if they are undead themselves, reducing their need to maintain control of their minions (zombies and skeletons left to their own devices only hunt the living). Your cultures are likely to respond by destroying their corpses to stay safe, so a world like the one you're implying (which, as I said, is consistent with the RAW) probably doesn't bury their dead in the dirt. Cremation is going to be very popular.
It may be a way to prevent zombie animation from the remains of animal beasts and other creature's type and by refering to creature type this way may also prevent zombie reanimation. RAW or RAI either way i agree it's not hurting if DM allows it regardless.
Additionally dead zombie can be stripped to the bones and reanimated as skeletton anyway.
Creatures have types. Corpses do NOT have types. Types only refer to what it used to be, not what it is now. A corpse of a humanoid that became undead is still a corpse of a humanoid.
Moreover, the only raise dead spell that references type is Reincarnate. The other spells work regardless of "type" of corpse. They work dependent upon how long since the body died. The soul must be free and willing. If it is still undead, then it is not free.
That is, BEING undead prevents resurrection, but the fact that you were once undead does not stop resurrection.
That's also the way I rule it. The RAW doesn't say anything that goes directly against this interpretation. And it just makes more logical sense (though we are talking about magic, so...).
For what it's worth, here's the SAC ruling on Animate Dead:
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That SAC entry is interesting because it doesn't imply what it maybe wants to. "[T]he body must have belonged to a creature of the humanoid creature type" is still true of a zombie if the zombie was raised from a humanoid (which is the problem I mentioned in #7). It doesn't say most recently or imply that the last creature type the body had is the most important or anything.
Well, seeing as you just defeated an undead, the creature type of the body that now lies before you is undead.
Nope. objects don't have creature types.
Besides, the body of the zombie that you just defeated did in fact belong to a humanoid -- sometime in the past.
It isn't worth much. It literally doesn't say anything the spell didn't already say. It is worded slightly differently, but not in a way that conveys new or clearer information.
So it can still be interpreted as allowing the targeting of a human corpse that was recently a zombie.
If objects doesn't have creature types then Animate Dead becomes a non-starter as the spell requires "a corpse of a Medium or Small humanoid".