I haven't had the chance to play my Artificer character yet, but this detail was confusing me, so I wanted to check to make sure I had it right, and I didn't see it in other threads.

I see the wording for the experimental elixir says: "...any elixir you create with this feature lasts until it is drunk or until the end of your next long rest". I assume this means both the free one and ones made with spell slots, right?

The only reason I ask is because I initially figured I'd be able to expend some unused spell slots before taking a long rest and have those elixirs available the next day with full slots for any combat I get into. It makes sense for the free one to disappear, since it was formed after a rest (and for free). But if the spell slot ones also disappear so soon, then there's way less of a purpose in making them. Not many people would want to waste their limited slots on backup flasks that may not get used, meaning you'd likely only create them when it's specifically needed. At the very least, I'd expect you to be able to have them for the full next day if you create them right before going to bed.

I feel like the spell slot elixirs should either last indefinitely, or a number of days equal to your modifier or something. Though I understand there'd be an issue of over-stocking potions you didn't spend money on. However, I could also see an interesting chance to start selling the elixirs for some extra pocket money. The 10-minute limit and no concentration would make them great for NPC civilians to use in daily life, compared to the full effect potions a magic shop would sell to adventurers.

Like you said, overstocking is an obvious problem. If they lasted indefinitely, there would be no reason not to expend all of your remaining spell slots on them right before a long rest. It would definitely add up quickly, like an amplified goodberry. Trust me, that would be pretty lame.

To answer your question; you are right. "Any elixir you create with this feature" includes the elixirs created by the feature, on account of them being created by the feature.

It only takes an action and you pick the effect, so the intent is not to stock up, but use what you need, when you need it.

I agree, they go with the end of a long rest so no stockpiles of potions. I could see it allowed if there was a limit, like on the number of infusions that all artificers have. So if they allowed you to have indefinitely, say, half your proficiency bonus (rounded up) potions that you use spell slots on I don’t think it would be OP

It probably helps to think of them less as potions, and more as bottled spells. 

As for why you would want to make them, it's because you can hand them out beforehand. If you're just casting spells, you can cast one a round. If you've handed out elixirs to the party, they can potentially be all be used at the same time, and you don't even have to be there.

Quote from jl8e >>

It probably helps to think of them less as potions, and more as bottled spells. 

As for why you would want to make them, it's because you can hand them out beforehand. If you're just casting spells, you can cast one a round. If you've handed out elixirs to the party, they can potentially be all be used at the same time, and you don't even have to be there.

 But if I hand out a number of them, then I'm down a number of slots for the fight and I can't really help as much. That's the main issue I see with the concept. I either give boosts beforehand or I actually participate later on (unless I get a weapon to use my INT stat for rolls XD). If they at least lasted a full day, I could make them in the evening, and they'd be good until the next evening. I'd pass them out once we woke up and still have slots to actually help in a fight. But being tied specifically to the rest itself means I either burn too many slots in order to actually get some use out of it, or I rarely use it at all. 

That trait pretty much sums up the class as a whole. They're given so many cool options, but then get held back on how much of each they can tap into (a few cantrips, a few infusions, half a spell list). And while it gives a vibe of being the utility belt of the team, it also feels like your constantly being kneecapped... and my gnome is short enough as it is.

This just makes me even more curious to know how the class would be tweaked in the One D&D system. I know it wouldn't be in the book, but at least a pdf near the end of these first-round playtests to give a bit to go off of. There'd likely be way less to change since it's a newer class, but I feel the infusions or even general crafting could be fleshed out more through this.

That's the whole point.

If a balanced character gets 100 "points" of influence between long rests, that's it. Most characters burn those points spontaneously in a combination of exploration, combat, or social phases. The Artificer's shtick is that they can burn those resources early in exchange for more versatility and semi-permanent boons. If they were also given access to a full suite of spontaneous abilities as well, they would be dramatically more powerful than any other class.

The problem isn't in the class features, but rather in how players gain satisfaction from the game. People crave a spotlight, and the Artificer isn't geared toward that. Everyone wants to be the person who cast Fireball to clear a field, or uses Great Weapon Master to cleave a head in. Few people really want to be the dedicated healer, or the middle of three kobolds in a trench coat.

It sounds like the Artificer, particularly the Alchemist subclass, simply isn't compatible with your playstyle at this time.

You may prefer to play a Wizard, Warlock, or Sorcerer and reflavor it as an Artificer.

Quote from Memnosyne >>

That's the whole point.

If a balanced character gets 100 "points" of influence between long rests, that's it. Most characters burn those points spontaneously in a combination of exploration, combat, or social phases. The Artificer's shtick is that they can burn those resources early in exchange for more versatility and semi-permanent boons. If they were also given access to a full suite of spontaneous abilities as well, they would be dramatically more powerful than any other class.

The problem isn't in the class features, but rather in how players gain satisfaction from the game. People crave a spotlight, and the Artificer isn't geared toward that. Everyone wants to be the person who cast Fireball to clear a field, or uses Great Weapon Master to cleave a head in. Few people really want to be the dedicated healer, or the middle of three kobolds in a trench coat.

It sounds like the Artificer, particularly the Alchemist subclass, simply isn't compatible with your playstyle at this time.

You may prefer to play a Wizard, Warlock, or Sorcerer and reflavor it as an Artificer.

 I find it hard to believe that giving this to the alchemist would make it more powerful than any other class considering how underwhelming they already are compared to the other artificer subclasses. Another half caster like paladin comes to mind. Their slots can be used for smites that do a heck of a lot more than a few elixirs. And they have their lay on hands, auras, etc on top of that. 

And I’m not saying give them indefinite or longer lasting elixirs if any of their spell slots are used. But I could see, as I’ve posted above, that a small amount, similar to the limit on infusions works for all artificers, wouldn’t be too OP. 

It's not going to break the game to make minor changes on a table by table basis,  but this is the kind of change that could turn into a "Coffeelock" if not handled properly in official content.

The Experimental Elixers are not independently amazing, but they require neither concentration, nor attunement, which means they break the limiters that 5e put in place to avoid effect stacking. For comparison, a Potion of Flying is a Very Rare item. The potion is more powerful than the elixir, but not necessarily enough to matter in a regular session.

How many session-tailorable, stackable, Rare-ish items do you want to give to the Artificer every single day on top of their existing features set?

At the very least, there should be a cost. If the Artificer can burn some gold to turn an experimental elixir into a "Stable Potion", then that's fine. That's basically just a discount at a specialty shop.

Edit: Or maybe the Alchemist could use an Infusion slot to make an item that preserves an elixir or two. Anything other than free.

Oops, I misread the feature. The 10ft speed on the Flight Elixir is less impressive than I was originally thinking.

Hoarding is still problematic, but less so.

Quote from Memnosyne >>

That's the whole point.

If a balanced character gets 100 "points" of influence between long rests, that's it. Most characters burn those points spontaneously in a combination of exploration, combat, or social phases. The Artificer's shtick is that they can burn those resources early in exchange for more versatility and semi-permanent boons. If they were also given access to a full suite of spontaneous abilities as well, they would be dramatically more powerful than any other class.

The problem isn't in the class features, but rather in how players gain satisfaction from the game. People crave a spotlight, and the Artificer isn't geared toward that. Everyone wants to be the person who cast Fireball to clear a field, or uses Great Weapon Master to cleave a head in. Few people really want to be the dedicated healer, or the middle of three kobolds in a trench coat.

It sounds like the Artificer, particularly the Alchemist subclass, simply isn't compatible with your playstyle at this time.

You may prefer to play a Wizard, Warlock, or Sorcerer and reflavor it as an Artificer.

 It's not that I want to be in the spotlight for things, in fact I love support/utility characters, and the Artificer is conceptually my favorite class in the game. But with how they're set up mechanically, it seems like they can barely do that. The core concept of the base Artificer is the infusions, but you only get 6 by the end, and the subclasses do nothing to expand on that concept. Instead, they take on completely different concepts that get little to no tie in with the base class. It's a ton of cool options, but none get a chance to really go anywhere when they're all crammed into one class.

If you look at it as a percentage, a class like the ranger could be seen as roughly 50% martial/bow, 30% spells, and 20% survivalist traits. A bard could be 50% spells, 30% inspiration/buff, and 20% skill monkey. Even though these classes are more of a mix compared to classes with 90-95% in one general area, they at least have one aspect that feels fleshed out with the rest being backup traits or flavor. But an Artificer feels closer to being 20-30% across the board. They don't have 0% in any area like a barbarian does for spells. Nor do they have a spike in anything like fighter with weapons (which is fine). But they're stretched so thin that any aspect you try to lean into is still limited.

Like I said before, I love utility roles in general and the gadget crafting concept. The flavor aspect is great. But if you have to ignore whole features to make full use of others, you don't feel like a fully functioning class. And playing everything in balance may mean you rarely get any sort of character moment at all, which defeats the purpose of a team game.

Also, the stuff like "indefinite elixirs" wasn't really a serious expectation. Being a half caster, I'd likely not have many slots to burn before the long rest anyway, so I wouldn't even expect to have a huge amount to pass out the next day. Maybe 2-3 on average. It was just the one detail that made the whole "stretched too thin" vibe more noticeable when I stopped to think about it. And to be fair, I have yet to actually play this class, so maybe it won't be as apparent in the moment (I've just never come across this vibe when creating characters for other classes, so it stood out way more drastically).

Well it is experimental so not being stable enough to last longer then 24 hours at best.

When possible spend real cash on real materials to make it a real potion.

Until about 10th level the artificer is pretty much a mediocre manufacturer of magic items. The same with low level full casters also.

Quote from Memnosyne >>

It's not going to break the game to make minor changes on a table by table basis,  but this is the kind of change that could turn into a "Coffeelock" if not handled properly in official content.

The Experimental Elixers are not independently amazing, but they require neither concentration, nor attunement, which means they break the limiters that 5e put in place to avoid effect stacking. For comparison, a Potion of Flying is a Very Rare item. The potion is more powerful than the elixir, but not necessarily enough to matter in a regular session.

How many session-tailorable, stackable, Rare-ish items do you want to give to the Artificer every single day on top of their existing features set?

At the very least, there should be a cost. If the Artificer can burn some gold to turn an experimental elixir into a "Stable Potion", then that's fine. That's basically just a discount at a specialty shop.

Edit: Or maybe the Alchemist could use an Infusion slot to make an item that preserves an elixir or two. Anything other than free.

 I suggested half your PB rounded up. So at 17th-20th level, you could keep three on hand at all times. I don’t think any of those elixirs at any level would break the game with that limit. And that’s not per day, they would be like infusions, if you make another elixir over your limit the oldest one stops working.