So I just noticed some wording in find familiar and wanted to get some opinions on it.
The spell says "it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of a beast." Does that mean that non-beast familiars such as those from pact of the chain, strixhaven mascot, or DM optional familiars added later (like tressym or abyssal chicken) don't have their creature types changed?
The thing many miss about the spell is this little piece of information: aspirit that takes an animal form you choose.
No matter what you conjure using the Find Familiar spell, it is still a spirit of celestial, fey, or fiend origin. The Pact of the Chain just allows a few more options. If a DM allows a player to choose a different form, it would still be a spirit of celestial, fey, or fiend origin.
If a player befriends certain monsters they will become familiars, but that us an exception outside of the Find Familiar spell we are discussing.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
I run it that the familiar spirit is a celestial, fey or fiend - the caster's choice - no matter what form of familiar is summoned.
The primary reason for this is that the warlock familiars are not all created equal. The imp stats are far better than any of the others. Folks who play good aligned warlocks are unlikely to want to have a fiendish familiar and so I allow them to have a celestial spirit with the same stats as an imp if they like since the spell only summons a spirit to assume a specific form - it is never summoning an actual creature - so specific creature type of the base creature the spirit is emulating doesn't matter.
Remember, you are not summoning an imp, you are summoning a spirit that is taking the form of an imp. You never actually summon the true creature, just a spirit imitating that creature's features.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
The people above me have interesting (and possible) views on RAI, but RAW I would say that the additional options keep their original creature types. Even their view on RAI is a bit shaky, since technically the imp would keep its alignment. How long can a celestial be a lawful evil fiend before it isn't a celestial?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Remember, you are not summoning an imp, you are summoning a spirit that is taking the form of an imp. You never actually summon the true creature, just a spirit imitating that creature's features.
IDK why you commented again as if you are arguing with someone. This was only the 3rd post and the other 2 posts were you and 1 other person with the same opinion. Did you forget you already answered or something?
How long can a celestial be a lawful evil fiend before it isn't a celestial?
Depends on the celestial, but most likely indefinitely. I think you are confusing angels (a specific subclass of celestial) with all celestials. There are a handful of neutral and unaligned celestials is 5e forgotten realms setting. Evil is certainly unlikely, but not impossible.
So I just noticed some wording in find familiar and wanted to get some opinions on it.
The spell says "it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of a beast." Does that mean that non-beast familiars such as those from pact of the chain, strixhaven mascot, or DM optional familiars added later (like tressym or abyssal chicken) don't have their creature types changed?
IMO this is just another example of the designers choice of how they write the rules. They write the rules from the POV of the normal case and quite often forget interactions with other/optional rules and rarely thinks much about future proofing their wordings. I can get why they wrote "beast" in the spell text considering that all the options given in the spell are beasts but it is poor editing principles to lock yourself in to a single specified creature type. And it is even worse editing to not realise that you should address the issue if you later write features that add onto the spell but has slightly different workings. But as I said above, this happens enough that is has to be an active choice and not a mistake.
As I read that sentence it is the "it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice)" that is the important part because both the spell and the later features make it clear that you are not summoning the creature but rather something that takes the form of the creature you choose.
Is it a question as a DM or a question as a player?
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Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
So I just noticed some wording in find familiar and wanted to get some opinions on it.
The spell says "it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of a beast." Does that mean that non-beast familiars such as those from pact of the chain, strixhaven mascot, or DM optional familiars added later (like tressym or abyssal chicken) don't have their creature types changed?
The thing many miss about the spell is this little piece of information: a spirit that takes an animal form you choose.
No matter what you conjure using the Find Familiar spell, it is still a spirit of celestial, fey, or fiend origin. The Pact of the Chain just allows a few more options. If a DM allows a player to choose a different form, it would still be a spirit of celestial, fey, or fiend origin.
If a player befriends certain monsters they will become familiars, but that us an exception outside of the Find Familiar spell we are discussing.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
I run it that the familiar spirit is a celestial, fey or fiend - the caster's choice - no matter what form of familiar is summoned.
The primary reason for this is that the warlock familiars are not all created equal. The imp stats are far better than any of the others. Folks who play good aligned warlocks are unlikely to want to have a fiendish familiar and so I allow them to have a celestial spirit with the same stats as an imp if they like since the spell only summons a spirit to assume a specific form - it is never summoning an actual creature - so specific creature type of the base creature the spirit is emulating doesn't matter.
Remember, you are not summoning an imp, you are summoning a spirit that is taking the form of an imp. You never actually summon the true creature, just a spirit imitating that creature's features.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
The people above me have interesting (and possible) views on RAI, but RAW I would say that the additional options keep their original creature types. Even their view on RAI is a bit shaky, since technically the imp would keep its alignment. How long can a celestial be a lawful evil fiend before it isn't a celestial?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
IDK why you commented again as if you are arguing with someone. This was only the 3rd post and the other 2 posts were you and 1 other person with the same opinion. Did you forget you already answered or something?
Depends on the celestial, but most likely indefinitely. I think you are confusing angels (a specific subclass of celestial) with all celestials. There are a handful of neutral and unaligned celestials is 5e forgotten realms setting. Evil is certainly unlikely, but not impossible.
IMO this is just another example of the designers choice of how they write the rules. They write the rules from the POV of the normal case and quite often forget interactions with other/optional rules and rarely thinks much about future proofing their wordings.
I can get why they wrote "beast" in the spell text considering that all the options given in the spell are beasts but it is poor editing principles to lock yourself in to a single specified creature type. And it is even worse editing to not realise that you should address the issue if you later write features that add onto the spell but has slightly different workings. But as I said above, this happens enough that is has to be an active choice and not a mistake.
As I read that sentence it is the "it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice)" that is the important part because both the spell and the later features make it clear that you are not summoning the creature but rather something that takes the form of the creature you choose.
Is it a question as a DM or a question as a player?
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
Both and neither. It is just a rules question. I want to know what people think the rules are.
The rules are the same for everybody, the DM just has the option to ignore or change them.
Talk to your DM. There's a nice project. Google for ZARGOTH’S TOME OF FAMILIARS
playing since 1986