Last night a situation came up where we were fighting a flying dragon. It got 30 ft from the ground and the monk used step of the wind and the jump spell to jump on its back, then the paladin used Misty Step to do the same. I thought to then use Vortex Warp to teleport the barbarian on too. The question is can I use this spell in this way?
"You magically twist space around another creature you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw (the target can choose to fail), or the target is teleported to an unoccupied space of your choice that you can see within range. The chosen space must be on a surface or in a liquid that can support the target without the target having to squeeze."
It kind of makes sense intuitively that it would but reading RAW I'm not so sure. The space has to be unoccupied which even though I'd teleport them on top of I think that still counts as the dragon's space RAW. "A creature's space is the area in feet that it effectively controls in combat, not an expression of its physical dimensions."
And then the next line of the spell states the destination must be on a surface, so I couldn't teleport them just a couple feet above.
Does that reading of RAW make sense to others? Or am I being too literal and RAF would say to let it happen?
As far as PHB RAW is concerned, I'd say no, you can't Vortex Warp someone onto the back of a dragon. That said, the monk and paladin aren't following PHB RAW either, since you can't end your move in another creature's space.
The DMG has optional rules for this sort of thing, however. The specific line I think is relevant is: "a suitably large opponent can be treated as terrain for the purpose of jumping onto its back or clinging to a limb." I think it's fair to apply this to Vortex Warp as well. For these purposes, the dragon isn't a creature occupying a space; it's terrain (and a valid surface for Vortex Warp).
As far as PHB RAW is concerned, I'd say no, you can't Vortex Warp someone onto the back of a dragon. That said, the monk and paladin aren't following PHB RAW either, since you can't end your move in another creature's space.
The DMG has optional rules for this sort of thing, however. The specific line I think is relevant is: "a suitably large opponent can be treated as terrain for the purpose of jumping onto its back or clinging to a limb." I think it's fair to apply this to Vortex Warp as well. For these purposes, the dragon isn't a creature occupying a space; it's terrain (and a valid surface for Vortex Warp).
Yeah, they were using the optional climb onto a bigger creature rule. And yes, that does then make sense for Vortex Warp too.
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Last night a situation came up where we were fighting a flying dragon. It got 30 ft from the ground and the monk used step of the wind and the jump spell to jump on its back, then the paladin used Misty Step to do the same. I thought to then use Vortex Warp to teleport the barbarian on too. The question is can I use this spell in this way?
"You magically twist space around another creature you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw (the target can choose to fail), or the target is teleported to an unoccupied space of your choice that you can see within range. The chosen space must be on a surface or in a liquid that can support the target without the target having to squeeze."
It kind of makes sense intuitively that it would but reading RAW I'm not so sure. The space has to be unoccupied which even though I'd teleport them on top of I think that still counts as the dragon's space RAW. "A creature's space is the area in feet that it effectively controls in combat, not an expression of its physical dimensions."
And then the next line of the spell states the destination must be on a surface, so I couldn't teleport them just a couple feet above.
Does that reading of RAW make sense to others? Or am I being too literal and RAF would say to let it happen?
As far as PHB RAW is concerned, I'd say no, you can't Vortex Warp someone onto the back of a dragon. That said, the monk and paladin aren't following PHB RAW either, since you can't end your move in another creature's space.
The DMG has optional rules for this sort of thing, however. The specific line I think is relevant is: "a suitably large opponent can be treated as terrain for the purpose of jumping onto its back or clinging to a limb." I think it's fair to apply this to Vortex Warp as well. For these purposes, the dragon isn't a creature occupying a space; it's terrain (and a valid surface for Vortex Warp).
Yeah, they were using the optional climb onto a bigger creature rule. And yes, that does then make sense for Vortex Warp too.