I guess you can if you treat the bag as the object, and allows it to be catapulted with whatever is contained inside, but that could open the door to creative players to stuff things in a bag such as potions, acid vial, gas poison flask, things with Glyph of Warding etc.. to be catapulted for additional effects.
I guess you can if you treat the bag as the object, and allows it to be catapulted with whatever is contained inside, but that could open the door to creative players to stuff things in a bag such as potions, acid vial, gas poison flask, things with Glyph of Warding etc.. to be catapulted for additional effects.
This would only be abusable with DM consent though; none of these things do anything if you catapult them, and actually a glyph of warding would expire (it dispels if it moves more than 10 feet iirc).
For the purposes of catapult a bag of stuff is just a weighted object like everything else; the only real advantage is you might be able to pass things to people that are far away, but that's assuming the DM doesn't roll for breakages, because catapulting them is one thing, getting them intact is another…
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I think the OP wants Prestigitation to function as an effective projectile spell that does significant damage, while ignoring the fact that Catacult is a 1st level spell that already exists for Arcane magic-users. (Sigh)
Re: ball bearings put into a bag and "fired" using Catacult, nothing says this absolutely can't be done, but the Catapult spell is not an explosion. It does not have the force of igniting gunpowder from a well-designed metal cylinder with the attendant effects. I would say that the use of a bag of ball bearings would do typical Catacult spell damage, with a 50% chance of the bag bursting on impact and scattering the ball bearings on the ground, creating terrain similar to that of the Grease spell.
The most I would allow with the bag of ball bearings and catapult is that after the damage of the bag’s impact ( if any) the ball bearings would spill on the floor creating difficult terrain (the effect of a grease spell) at the impact location. And that assumes that the bag either rips n impact or is open when it hits.
I'm not sure what significant effect ball bearings would have on cobblestone with all the texture. much less packed dirt, cave gravel, or field. but maybe maybe if the bag is aimed at the turret of Lord Bigbad's ridiculously complex Clockwork Logging Machine as he monologues...?
i think these sorts of things work out way better as a spur of the moment hail mary than some prepared plan or, heaven forbid, a repeatable quirky character concept. remember, even MacGuyver used a gun when he wanted to shoot bullets (that one time in the pilot).
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I think the rapid expansion of gasses from the combustion of the gunpowder is what propels the bullet … simply heating air would only work if you could hyper-pressurize it and also had a mechanism to keep the bearing locked in place until the pressure was released.
It is, that and the fact that the friction seal between the slug and the barrel is a hugely smaller force than the force of the expanding gases and the breach block. In muzzle loaders you have the breach hole that allows some of the gasses to escape lowering the pressure but it is kept as small as possible to limit this loss..
I think the rapid expansion of gasses from the combustion of the gunpowder is what propels the bullet … simply heating air would only work if you could hyper-pressurize it and also had a mechanism to keep the bearing locked in place until the pressure was released.
this whole time i've been assuming the 'heated air' was water vapor. with perfectly distributed heating you could get a 1:1600 expansion from water flashing to steam. just for comparison, google tells me gunpowder vapor expansion is 1:700 by volume. i feel like a candle flame could achieve the heat for a small tube if magic could just ensure it all flashes at once (starting volume and heat distribution being big factors to that). maybe more of a control flame issue than a prestidigitation. mostly my takeaway is that if it was possible it wouldn't be an on-demand effect you could aim in battle. and if you then considered fixed-barrel applications, i'm not sure it scales up well (cannons unlikely).
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Heated air is not water vapor and it’s not doing the expansion in a fraction of a second so still no!
a stirling engine demonstrates air expanding at fractions of a second. ideally, water wouldn't be a part of the stirling engine (which was just an example). however, a small amount of liquid water could be trusted to convert close to instantly from the volume of a pea to the volume of 1600 peas with sufficient heat. so "it depends, but not never"
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I think the rapid expansion of gasses from the combustion of the gunpowder is what propels the bullet … simply heating air would only work if you could hyper-pressurize it and also had a mechanism to keep the bearing locked in place until the pressure was released.
this whole time i've been assuming the 'heated air' was water vapor. with perfectly distributed heating you could get a 1:1600 expansion from water flashing to steam. just for comparison, google tells me gunpowder vapor expansion is 1:700 by volume. i feel like a candle flame could achieve the heat for a small tube if magic could just ensure it all flashes at once (starting volume and heat distribution being big factors to that). maybe more of a control flame issue than a prestidigitation. mostly my takeaway is that if it was possible it wouldn't be an on-demand effect you could aim in battle. and if you then considered fixed-barrel applications, i'm not sure it scales up well (cannons unlikely).
I don't know if you have ever cooked pasta, rice, etc. but a candle would never boil water into steam. Water boils (turns to steam) at 100 C (212 F) under standard atmospheric pressure (1 atm / 101 kpa) to get to that temperature in a fraction of a second (what is needed to cause a rapid expansion), you would need an extreme source of heat, not something that is achievable with Prestidigitation, now, you may be able to achieve this with something like Heat Metal (instantly making metal glow red hot is about the order of heat you are looking for), but at that point, you would be trading the 2d8 fire damage (with the potential for future damage) for a 1d4 or 1d6 ball bearing shot.
your pasta water will come to boil slower if you put more than the 6 cups of water the macaroni box suggests, and faster with less (assuming stove, not candle). that's why i suggested a pea-sized amount of water. much easier to heat quickly and evenly throughout. if a candle produces 40 joules of energy a second and water takes 4 joules per milliliter to go up one degree of temperature and heat of vaporization is 2260J, then you'll have 1 gram of liquid water at 100C for nearly a minute before you have 1 gram of 100C steam. you're probably picturing this minute passing with more and more bubbles. those would be due to uneven heating (your pasta bubble occurring at the bottom of the pot, the part adjacent to the flame, not in the middle or top-side). but, i'm assuming even heat where the entire gram of water is heated equally and no part of it flashes early (bubbles).
it's been fun, but anyway the answer still remains "prestidigitation is a utility cantrip and firebolt exists so no you may not." i haven't said it, but i've upvoted it plenty and it remains my preference despite what i've discussed above. sorry if i didn't make that clear before.
I guess you can if you treat the bag as the object, and allows it to be catapulted with whatever is contained inside, but that could open the door to creative players to stuff things in a bag such as potions, acid vial, gas poison flask, things with Glyph of Warding etc.. to be catapulted for additional effects.
This would only be abusable with DM consent though; none of these things do anything if you catapult them, and actually a glyph of warding would expire (it dispels if it moves more than 10 feet iirc).
For the purposes of catapult a bag of stuff is just a weighted object like everything else; the only real advantage is you might be able to pass things to people that are far away, but that's assuming the DM doesn't roll for breakages, because catapulting them is one thing, getting them intact is another…
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I think the OP wants Prestigitation to function as an effective projectile spell that does significant damage, while ignoring the fact that Catacult is a 1st level spell that already exists for Arcane magic-users. (Sigh)
Re: ball bearings put into a bag and "fired" using Catacult, nothing says this absolutely can't be done, but the Catapult spell is not an explosion. It does not have the force of igniting gunpowder from a well-designed metal cylinder with the attendant effects. I would say that the use of a bag of ball bearings would do typical Catacult spell damage, with a 50% chance of the bag bursting on impact and scattering the ball bearings on the ground, creating terrain similar to that of the Grease spell.
The most I would allow with the bag of ball bearings and catapult is that after the damage of the bag’s impact ( if any) the ball bearings would spill on the floor creating difficult terrain (the effect of a grease spell) at the impact location. And that assumes that the bag either rips n impact or is open when it hits.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I'm not sure what significant effect ball bearings would have on cobblestone with all the texture. much less packed dirt, cave gravel, or field. but maybe maybe if the bag is aimed at the turret of Lord Bigbad's ridiculously complex Clockwork Logging Machine as he monologues...?
i think these sorts of things work out way better as a spur of the moment hail mary than some prepared plan or, heaven forbid, a repeatable quirky character concept. remember, even MacGuyver used a gun when he wanted to shoot bullets (that one time in the pilot).
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
I think the rapid expansion of gasses from the combustion of the gunpowder is what propels the bullet … simply heating air would only work if you could hyper-pressurize it and also had a mechanism to keep the bearing locked in place until the pressure was released.
It is, that and the fact that the friction seal between the slug and the barrel is a hugely smaller force than the force of the expanding gases and the breach block. In muzzle loaders you have the breach hole that allows some of the gasses to escape lowering the pressure but it is kept as small as possible to limit this loss..
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
this whole time i've been assuming the 'heated air' was water vapor. with perfectly distributed heating you could get a 1:1600 expansion from water flashing to steam. just for comparison, google tells me gunpowder vapor expansion is 1:700 by volume. i feel like a candle flame could achieve the heat for a small tube if magic could just ensure it all flashes at once (starting volume and heat distribution being big factors to that). maybe more of a control flame issue than a prestidigitation. mostly my takeaway is that if it was possible it wouldn't be an on-demand effect you could aim in battle. and if you then considered fixed-barrel applications, i'm not sure it scales up well (cannons unlikely).
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RAI
Do not turn a utility non attack spell into any type of attack spell in any way.
Heated air is not water vapor and it’s not doing the expansion in a fraction of a second so still no!
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
a stirling engine demonstrates air expanding at fractions of a second. ideally, water wouldn't be a part of the stirling engine (which was just an example). however, a small amount of liquid water could be trusted to convert close to instantly from the volume of a pea to the volume of 1600 peas with sufficient heat. so "it depends, but not never"
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
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your pasta water will come to boil slower if you put more than the 6 cups of water the macaroni box suggests, and faster with less (assuming stove, not candle). that's why i suggested a pea-sized amount of water. much easier to heat quickly and evenly throughout. if a candle produces 40 joules of energy a second and water takes 4 joules per milliliter to go up one degree of temperature and heat of vaporization is 2260J, then you'll have 1 gram of liquid water at 100C for nearly a minute before you have 1 gram of 100C steam. you're probably picturing this minute passing with more and more bubbles. those would be due to uneven heating (your pasta bubble occurring at the bottom of the pot, the part adjacent to the flame, not in the middle or top-side). but, i'm assuming even heat where the entire gram of water is heated equally and no part of it flashes early (bubbles).
it's been fun, but anyway the answer still remains "prestidigitation is a utility cantrip and firebolt exists so no you may not." i haven't said it, but i've upvoted it plenty and it remains my preference despite what i've discussed above. sorry if i didn't make that clear before.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!