To set the scene, I have a 20th-level Rogue in one-on-one combat with an Oathbreaker Paladin.
Paladin casts Hellish Rebuke, which is a reaction, and is described: "You point your finger, and the creature that damaged you is momentarily surrounded by hellish flames. The creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. It takes 2d10 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one."
Rogue successfully hits Paladin with a dagger, causing damage.
The Hellish Rebuke reaction kicks in and surrounds the Rogue in hellish flames.
My 1st question:
Does the Rogue get to make a Dex Save for 1/2 damage as the description of Hellish Rebuke describes, or because Uncanny Dodge is a function of Dexterity, does it count as that Dex Save (which really isn't a saving throw at all, since Uncanny Dodge automatically grants 1/2 damage without dependence upon a die roll)?
For example, the Paladin casts Hellish Rebuke at 5th level, which causes 6d10 damage. He rolls 32 points for damage.
If the Rogue is allowed to take the Dex Save described in Hellish Rebuke, and let's say she makes it, then she's down to only taking 16 points (1/2 of 32), from that Dex Save;
If the Rogue is then allowed to further take Uncanny Dodge, which is automatically granted, then she takes 1/2 of the 16 point, for a final total of 8 points?
My 2nd question:
Uncanny dodge is described as "Starting at 5th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack’s damage against you."
If the attacker hits you with multiple attacks in a round, do you get to use Uncanny Dodge on all attacks, reducing the total damage caused to the Rogue in that round by 1/2, or is Uncanny Dodge just applied to the result of 1 of those attacks?
If just 1 attack, is it:
the first attack attempt, whether or not that attack causes damage or not? (e.g. 1st attack was unsuccessful to hit, so 0 points in damage are delivered, but because Uncanny Dodge is a function of Dexterity, you as a Rogue could not possibly know whether that attack was going to be successful or not; all you know is to try to dodge any and all attacks?; or
the first successful attack to cause damage? or
Rogue's choice of which successful attack that causes damage, to "cherry pick" and reduce the greatest amount of damage?
Does any of this change if the Rogue is being attacked by multiple attackers (e.g. the Rogue is jumped by 5 street urchins)?
The lack of details in Uncanny Dodge's description makes me think it might be the DM's call, but part of me thinks that by applying the Uncanny Dodge mechanic to all damage received by a Rogue per round and cutting all damage received in half, which is automatically successful because it's a reaction to damage (no save required), it seems a little OP.
Starting at 5th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack’s damage against you.
An Attack implies something which requires an attack roll or spell attack roll against the Rogue, which is using the attack or cast a spell action, but not an effect which requires a saving throw (save-or-suck spells, a dragon's breath weapon, etc.). Hellish Rebuke does not qualify for Uncanny Dodge using that logic.
Since you are only allowed one reaction per round, you are allowed this feature once per round, barring other special effects or features which would grant an additional reaction. You have to choose which attack's damage you want to reduce, so it cannot be used against multiple attacks.
Starting at 5th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack’s damage against you.
An Attack implies something which requires an attack roll or spell attack roll against the Rogue, which is using the attack or cast a spell action, but not an effect which requires a saving throw (save-or-suck spells, a dragon's breath weapon, etc.). Hellish Rebuke does not qualify for Uncanny Dodge using that logic.
Since you are only allowed one reaction per round, you are allowed this feature once per round, barring other special effects or features which would grant an additional reaction. You have to choose which attack's damage you want to reduce, so it cannot be used against multiple attacks.
This makes 100% sense. Thanks for taking the time to read through this and responding! :)
The rogue does have Evasion, however, which does allow them to take no damage whenever they succeed on a DEX save against something that would normally cause damage, and evasion exhausts no resources.
When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Note how this is DEX saves only, so spells or effects that require a CON save or an INT save, etc, wouldn't be effected by this.
To set the scene, I have a 20th-level Rogue in one-on-one combat with an Oathbreaker Paladin.
Paladin casts Hellish Rebuke, which is a reaction, and is described: "You point your finger, and the creature that damaged you is momentarily surrounded by hellish flames. The creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. It takes 2d10 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one."
Rogue successfully hits Paladin with a dagger, causing damage.
The Hellish Rebuke reaction kicks in and surrounds the Rogue in hellish flames.
Just as a note, this is the wrong order of operations. The correct one would be: - Rogue hits and deals damage to the Paladin. - Paladin casts Hellish Rebuke
You don't need to pre-cast spells that have the casting time of "1 reaction" but rather you take the reaction when needed. And this is the same for the Rogues "Uncanny Dodge". And this also answers one of your other questions.
Rogue's choice of which successful attack that causes damage, to "cherry pick" and reduce the greatest amount of damage?
Yes the Rogue gets to pick which attack he uses it against. But the expectation in the rules is that attacks are resolved sequentially, i.e Attack 1 hits and deals damage and then Attack 2 and then Attack 3 and so on. So if the Rogue wants to dodge Attack 1 he has to do so when that is resolved, when Attack 2 is rolled and resolved then the time to dodge Attack 1 has passed. So he gets to pick which attack to use Uncanny Dodge on but he doesn't get to see the result/damage of all attacks in a round first and then pick which one he wanted to dodge. And because of this the question about number of attackers become irrelevant because even with several attackers the actual attacks still happen sequentially.
1) As mentioned, Hellish rebuke is a reaction. Characters get one reaction/round. If they have used their reaction for a spell (shield/counterspell) or an opportunity attack or anything else then they won't have it left. In this case assuming that the paladin has a reaction then they can cast Hellish Rebuke AFTER they are hit.
2) Hellish rebuke is a spell. It is NOT an attack. There is no attack roll.
The rogue Uncanny Dodge ability allows them to use a reaction to reduce the damage of one attack by 1/2. Attacks are resolved sequentially so the rogue doesn't get to pick the one that does the most damage. They decide after the damage of an attack is rolled whether to use their reaction to reduce that one or not. However, Uncanny Dodge doesn't apply to Hellish Rebuke.
3) On the other hand, the Rogue EVASION ability (level 7) does apply.
The description of the ability mentions area of effects. However, the mechanics just mention a dexterity saving throw.
"When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail."
In this case, the rogue could use evasion. If they make the save then they take no damage and if they fail they take 1/2.
So, evasion should apply even if Uncanny Dodge should not.
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To set the scene, I have a 20th-level Rogue in one-on-one combat with an Oathbreaker Paladin.
My 1st question:
My 2nd question:
Uncanny dodge is described as "Starting at 5th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack’s damage against you."
The lack of details in Uncanny Dodge's description makes me think it might be the DM's call, but part of me thinks that by applying the Uncanny Dodge mechanic to all damage received by a Rogue per round and cutting all damage received in half, which is automatically successful because it's a reaction to damage (no save required), it seems a little OP.
What do yall think?
Uncanny Dodge
Starting at 5th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack’s damage against you.
An Attack implies something which requires an attack roll or spell attack roll against the Rogue, which is using the attack or cast a spell action, but not an effect which requires a saving throw (save-or-suck spells, a dragon's breath weapon, etc.). Hellish Rebuke does not qualify for Uncanny Dodge using that logic.
Since you are only allowed one reaction per round, you are allowed this feature once per round, barring other special effects or features which would grant an additional reaction. You have to choose which attack's damage you want to reduce, so it cannot be used against multiple attacks.
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This makes 100% sense. Thanks for taking the time to read through this and responding! :)
The rogue does have Evasion, however, which does allow them to take no damage whenever they succeed on a DEX save against something that would normally cause damage, and evasion exhausts no resources.
Note how this is DEX saves only, so spells or effects that require a CON save or an INT save, etc, wouldn't be effected by this.
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Just as a note, this is the wrong order of operations. The correct one would be:
- Rogue hits and deals damage to the Paladin.
- Paladin casts Hellish Rebuke
You don't need to pre-cast spells that have the casting time of "1 reaction" but rather you take the reaction when needed. And this is the same for the Rogues "Uncanny Dodge". And this also answers one of your other questions.
Yes the Rogue gets to pick which attack he uses it against. But the expectation in the rules is that attacks are resolved sequentially, i.e Attack 1 hits and deals damage and then Attack 2 and then Attack 3 and so on. So if the Rogue wants to dodge Attack 1 he has to do so when that is resolved, when Attack 2 is rolled and resolved then the time to dodge Attack 1 has passed. So he gets to pick which attack to use Uncanny Dodge on but he doesn't get to see the result/damage of all attacks in a round first and then pick which one he wanted to dodge.
And because of this the question about number of attackers become irrelevant because even with several attackers the actual attacks still happen sequentially.
Yep there are several issues here.
1) As mentioned, Hellish rebuke is a reaction. Characters get one reaction/round. If they have used their reaction for a spell (shield/counterspell) or an opportunity attack or anything else then they won't have it left. In this case assuming that the paladin has a reaction then they can cast Hellish Rebuke AFTER they are hit.
2) Hellish rebuke is a spell. It is NOT an attack. There is no attack roll.
The rogue Uncanny Dodge ability allows them to use a reaction to reduce the damage of one attack by 1/2. Attacks are resolved sequentially so the rogue doesn't get to pick the one that does the most damage. They decide after the damage of an attack is rolled whether to use their reaction to reduce that one or not. However, Uncanny Dodge doesn't apply to Hellish Rebuke.
3) On the other hand, the Rogue EVASION ability (level 7) does apply.
The description of the ability mentions area of effects. However, the mechanics just mention a dexterity saving throw.
"When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail."
In this case, the rogue could use evasion. If they make the save then they take no damage and if they fail they take 1/2.
So, evasion should apply even if Uncanny Dodge should not.