I have a question on how Tongues works as a spell:
This spell grants the creature you touch the ability to understand any spoken language it hears. Moreover, when the target speaks, any creature that knows at least one language and can hear the target understands what it says.
* - (a small clay model of a ziggurat)
So the line "any creature that knows at least one language and can hear the target understands what it says" is what I am asking a ruling on:
1) Does this mean that when the target of the spell speaks, the 'any creatures' hear the words in their native language.
or
2) It is more like a universal translator; and the 'any creatures' hear the words in the language of the speaker but they can process and understand their meaning.
I am trying to determine if tongues will help with infiltration and passing off a disguise. If creatures can decipher (ie. via sounds coming form another creature or paying attention to their lips) that words being spoken are in a different language then it would tip off someone trying to pass themselves off as a different creature.
In short, would a standard Halfling character more likely be successful being invisible with the Tongues spell cast in order to listen to the conversations of the Duergar camp oppose to being magically disguised or transformed into a Duergar and using the Tongues spell to attempt to communicate with members of the camp.
Because the listener must know at least one language to understand what it is being said, i would assume that it understand it in a known native language.
Because the listener must know at least one language to understand what it is being said, i would assume that it understand it in a known native language.
I would agree. And add that the way I interpret it, like Pantagreuel666 said, your lips won’t match what the “any creature hears”
It's a DM call unfortunately. There are several ways you could interpret it and some would be better for deception than others.
1) Since all creatures can hear and understand the creature affected by tongues, it is clear that tongues does not allow the creature affected to speak in a different language since there is no guarantee that any other creatures listening would all understand the other language. i.e. Tongues does not allow you speak the language of the person listening.
2) The next part requires a DM decision ...
"any creature that knows at least one language and can hear the target understands what it says"
The creature must be able to hear the speech and then they can understand it. Possibly in a language they know. However, it does not say that the creature hears the sounds of that language only that they understand what is being said. The spell says nothing about actually hearing a different language ... only that the creature can understand what is being said.
So - does the creature hearing the words actually hear the language they understand or do they hear unusual sounds that somehow have meaning to them because they know a language and can communicate in a language?
The problem with actually hearing a language is WHICH language do they hear? Characters and NPCs in D&D often know several languages ... which one do they hear if the sounds are mapped in the translation process? Would a drow hear Elvish, Deep Speech or Undercommon?
Since the spell also contains no information regarding which language the creature hears, I usually interpret this to mean that the creature only hears the sounds the creature is actually making which are then magically understood because the creature already knows at least one language and thus has the facility to interpret language.
This ruling makes Tongues not very useful for infiltration or deception (except that you can understand the words of anyone you encounter which can be useful) but you won't sound like a native if you communicate with them.
I see nothing in the spell changing how you sound to help during infiltration, Tongues doesn't say it grant the ability to speak a language you don't know, it makes any creature that knows at least one language understands what you say.
One option, which is moving into home brew, is for the creature hearing you to take a Perception check to see if they notice that the speech sounds are unfamiliar, despite understanding the content of the message. Perception vs your spell save DC would seem appropriate.
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I have a question on how Tongues works as a spell:
So the line "any creature that knows at least one language and can hear the target understands what it says" is what I am asking a ruling on:
1) Does this mean that when the target of the spell speaks, the 'any creatures' hear the words in their native language.
or
2) It is more like a universal translator; and the 'any creatures' hear the words in the language of the speaker but they can process and understand their meaning.
I am trying to determine if tongues will help with infiltration and passing off a disguise. If creatures can decipher (ie. via sounds coming form another creature or paying attention to their lips) that words being spoken are in a different language then it would tip off someone trying to pass themselves off as a different creature.
In short, would a standard Halfling character more likely be successful being invisible with the Tongues spell cast in order to listen to the conversations of the Duergar camp oppose to being magically disguised or transformed into a Duergar and using the Tongues spell to attempt to communicate with members of the camp.
That’s up to the DM. Sorry there isn’t a more satisfying answer.
It's really up to the DM, but at a minimum you're going to get things like lip desync because it sounds like different things to different people.
Because the listener must know at least one language to understand what it is being said, i would assume that it understand it in a known native language.
I would agree. And add that the way I interpret it, like Pantagreuel666 said, your lips won’t match what the “any creature hears”
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
It's a DM call unfortunately. There are several ways you could interpret it and some would be better for deception than others.
1) Since all creatures can hear and understand the creature affected by tongues, it is clear that tongues does not allow the creature affected to speak in a different language since there is no guarantee that any other creatures listening would all understand the other language. i.e. Tongues does not allow you speak the language of the person listening.
2) The next part requires a DM decision ...
"any creature that knows at least one language and can hear the target understands what it says"
The creature must be able to hear the speech and then they can understand it. Possibly in a language they know. However, it does not say that the creature hears the sounds of that language only that they understand what is being said. The spell says nothing about actually hearing a different language ... only that the creature can understand what is being said.
So - does the creature hearing the words actually hear the language they understand or do they hear unusual sounds that somehow have meaning to them because they know a language and can communicate in a language?
The problem with actually hearing a language is WHICH language do they hear? Characters and NPCs in D&D often know several languages ... which one do they hear if the sounds are mapped in the translation process? Would a drow hear Elvish, Deep Speech or Undercommon?
Since the spell also contains no information regarding which language the creature hears, I usually interpret this to mean that the creature only hears the sounds the creature is actually making which are then magically understood because the creature already knows at least one language and thus has the facility to interpret language.
This ruling makes Tongues not very useful for infiltration or deception (except that you can understand the words of anyone you encounter which can be useful) but you won't sound like a native if you communicate with them.
I see nothing in the spell changing how you sound to help during infiltration, Tongues doesn't say it grant the ability to speak a language you don't know, it makes any creature that knows at least one language understands what you say.
One option, which is moving into home brew, is for the creature hearing you to take a Perception check to see if they notice that the speech sounds are unfamiliar, despite understanding the content of the message. Perception vs your spell save DC would seem appropriate.