What about something that has a 'magazine' or a six shooter, where the ammo is already in it and ready to repeat fire?
I don't know if any such thing as magazine exist in 5E24 but if one did the wording would likely address it.
Same as before, the DMG has modern and futuristic firearms. Once you go through ammo capacity, it takes an Action or Bonus Action to reload. Now, getting at those in the first place is up to the DM.
What about something that has a 'magazine' or a six shooter, where the ammo is already in it and ready to repeat fire?
I don't know if any such thing as magazine exist in 5E24 but if one did the wording would likely address it.
Same as before, the DMG has modern and futuristic firearms. Once you go through ammo capacity, it takes an Action or Bonus Action to reload. Now, getting at those in the first place is up to the DM.
Oh yeah you're right i forgot as i never really used these. They have the Reload property;
Reload
You can make a limited number of shots with a Reload weapon. You must then reload the weapon as an action or a Bonus Action.
You can still stow one weapon and draw another in between attacks, as you get one free object interaction that must be used during a movement or action. So if you wanted, you could fire a Heavy Crossbow, stow it with the free equip/unequip that comes as part of an Attack action, then use your free object interaction to draw a Longbow and fire that.
That said, am I the only person finding this constant "weapon juggling" discussion tedious? If you brought a character like this to a real table, you'd be laughed at, if not directly to your face, then definitely behind your back, for the needless complexity of it all.
You can still stow one weapon and draw another in between attacks, as you get one free object interaction that must be used during a movement or action. So if you wanted, you could fire a Heavy Crossbow, stow it with the free equip/unequip that comes as part of an Attack action, then use your free object interaction to draw a Longbow and fire that.
That said, am I the only person finding this constant "weapon juggling" discussion tedious? If you brought a character like this to a real table, you'd be laughed at, if not directly to your face, then definitely behind your back, for the needless complexity of it all.
I blame video games. This is the TTRPG equivalent of action cancelling. IE: Its technically valid.... but outside of very specific competitive scenes (speed running, tournament, etc) its seen as very try hard. I'd let it slide occasionally, if there is a very specific thing wanting to be done, and theres a tiny window to make it work. But if you're doing it all the time, it starts to get obnoxious, as they have to make the call outs each turn.
And I'd be a malicious enough DM to start incorporating disarms and handiness to complicate that rotation.
That said, am I the only person finding this constant "weapon juggling" discussion tedious?
Very much not. I have zero patience for weapon juggling shenanigans and it's never going to fly at my table.
Presumably, the exception would be thrown weapons, no?
I should probably clarify that what I mean by "weapon juggling shenanigans" is "abusing the weapon drawing/stowing rules as a loophole to get around the way other rules like fighting styles are clearly intended to work while technically remaining within the RAW".
I don't have a problem with people using thrown weapons in general, though I've also never seen anyone actually play a character who focused on it.
I should probably clarify that what I mean by "weapon juggling shenanigans" is "abusing the weapon drawing/stowing rules as a loophole to get around the way other rules like fighting styles are clearly intended to work while technically remaining within the RAW". I don't have a problem with people using thrown weapons in general, though I've also never seen anyone actually play a character who focused on it.
(I don't disagree with you, but this is neat to explore.)
Let's take a Champion Fighter at level 7, who had ST 20, TWF, Nick, DW, and the other TWF (Thrown Weapon Fighting) by level 7. They'd be able to make 4 thrown attacks (attack + attack + nick attack + dual wielder attack) with a giant pile of daggers, each with 1d4+7 damage and no "juggling" because you can always draw a thrown weapon with it's throw attack. The only thing "weird" about that is being able to do it with a Shield.
If that same Champion used a couple of scimitars instead of a pile of daggers, and Dueling instead of ThWF, they'd get 4 1d6+7 attacks, still with a Shield. At the "expense" of sticking to melee but the bonus of not needing a giant pile of daggers to sustain it.
I think the easiest way to reign this in, if you think it's OP or dumb, is to just say "the Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style and the Dual Wielder feat each require you to use two different hands for the light-property attacks, because of how they are named." Seems less arbitrary than trying to police the finicky drawing/stowing rules. (This would also mean that second Champion can't actually combo TWF and Dueling, which probably is probably more satisfying.)
I think the easiest way to reign this in, if you think it's OP or dumb, is to just say "the Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style and the Dual Wielder feat each require you to use two different hands for the light-property attacks, because of how they are named." Seems less arbitrary than trying to police the finicky drawing/stowing rules. (This would also mean that second Champion can't actually combo TWF and Dueling, which probably is probably more satisfying.)
That is easily backed-up by the very exemple in the Light property;
Light: For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
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My impression is that the Devs wanted to bring melee or thrown weapon user on par with ranged weapon one.
Drawing a thrown weapon as part of the attack
VS
Drawing an ammunition is part of the attack
What about something that has a 'magazine' or a six shooter, where the ammo is already in it and ready to repeat fire?
I don't know if any such thing as magazine exist in 5E24 but if one did the wording would likely address it.
Same as before, the DMG has modern and futuristic firearms. Once you go through ammo capacity, it takes an Action or Bonus Action to reload. Now, getting at those in the first place is up to the DM.
Oh yeah you're right i forgot as i never really used these. They have the Reload property;
you would be correct if that's how the wording for the free stow and draws work. But they say specifically on each attack in the attack action.
The new SRD 5.2.1 has a conversion guide from SRD 5.1 to SRD 5.2.1 for creators looking to update their materials SRD v5.2.1 - System Reference Document - D&D Beyond
It contains the following text confirming that you're intended to be able to equip and unequip on each attack of the Attack action;
You can still stow one weapon and draw another in between attacks, as you get one free object interaction that must be used during a movement or action. So if you wanted, you could fire a Heavy Crossbow, stow it with the free equip/unequip that comes as part of an Attack action, then use your free object interaction to draw a Longbow and fire that.
That said, am I the only person finding this constant "weapon juggling" discussion tedious? If you brought a character like this to a real table, you'd be laughed at, if not directly to your face, then definitely behind your back, for the needless complexity of it all.
I blame video games. This is the TTRPG equivalent of action cancelling. IE: Its technically valid.... but outside of very specific competitive scenes (speed running, tournament, etc) its seen as very try hard. I'd let it slide occasionally, if there is a very specific thing wanting to be done, and theres a tiny window to make it work. But if you're doing it all the time, it starts to get obnoxious, as they have to make the call outs each turn.
And I'd be a malicious enough DM to start incorporating disarms and handiness to complicate that rotation.
Very much not. I have zero patience for weapon juggling shenanigans and it's never going to fly at my table.
pronouns: he/she/they
Presumably, the exception would be thrown weapons, no?
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
YMMV but in my experience, weapon juggling is more common in theocrafting and rules discussions than actual game play.
I should probably clarify that what I mean by "weapon juggling shenanigans" is "abusing the weapon drawing/stowing rules as a loophole to get around the way other rules like fighting styles are clearly intended to work while technically remaining within the RAW".
I don't have a problem with people using thrown weapons in general, though I've also never seen anyone actually play a character who focused on it.
pronouns: he/she/they
Weapon juggling is simply equipping/unequipping as many weapons as possible to maximize Weapon Mastery property potential, being all possible because:
(I don't disagree with you, but this is neat to explore.)
Let's take a Champion Fighter at level 7, who had ST 20, TWF, Nick, DW, and the other TWF (Thrown Weapon Fighting) by level 7. They'd be able to make 4 thrown attacks (attack + attack + nick attack + dual wielder attack) with a giant pile of daggers, each with 1d4+7 damage and no "juggling" because you can always draw a thrown weapon with it's throw attack. The only thing "weird" about that is being able to do it with a Shield.
If that same Champion used a couple of scimitars instead of a pile of daggers, and Dueling instead of ThWF, they'd get 4 1d6+7 attacks, still with a Shield. At the "expense" of sticking to melee but the bonus of not needing a giant pile of daggers to sustain it.
I think the easiest way to reign this in, if you think it's OP or dumb, is to just say "the Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style and the Dual Wielder feat each require you to use two different hands for the light-property attacks, because of how they are named." Seems less arbitrary than trying to police the finicky drawing/stowing rules. (This would also mean that second Champion can't actually combo TWF and Dueling, which probably is probably more satisfying.)
That is easily backed-up by the very exemple in the Light property;