I get that they changed it to be more balanced, but it doesn’t feel logical regardless. If I’m proficient in Calligraphy Tools I can craft seemingly infinite spell scrolls, but can’t scribe new rituals? .
The tool proficiency allows you to scribe spells which you already know, but if you're not a wizard you simply aren't scholarly enough to analyze, understand, learn, and then write down spells from spell scrolls.
Remember that spell scrolls aren't just recipes that you copy to a book. They are magic items that have the spell baked into them. When cast from a scroll, you simply release it. Wizards have the ability to learn it in the process and write down what they learned.
It's not that you lack the ability to write something in the book. It's that you lack the ability to reverse engineer spell scrolls.
So I have Magic Initiate, which gives me access to potentially one ritual spell at a time. With my calligraphy tools I can create spell scrolls from a prepared spell given 8 hours and 25gp worth of materials. Ritual Caster isn't just a static book of spells, you get a new spell for each proficiency bonus. They don't just magically appear, I would assume that represents learning the spell over the course of time. Why couldn't I reverse engineer a spell scroll to a book that I created in the first place? It just seems like a silly line to draw. I need to take a level of wizard in order to do something that I could "logically" do with my existing two feats and tool proficiency?
Huh, that's an unusual combination. Are you trying to exploit the "Spell Change" feature of the Magic Initiate by changing to various Ritual Spells and then "backing them up" in the Ritual book? That's actually a great example for why it shouldn't work.
As for a in-universe explanation: Not everyone knows how to cast a spell as a ritual. If you're a Paladin who takes Ritual Caster you still can't ritual cast "Ceremony" unless you chose Ceremony as part of the Ritual Caster feat. I guess learning how a spell is cast and learning how a spell is ritual cast are two different things. So, a spell scroll won't necessarily teach you how a ritual for a spell works.
It's hardly game breaking. You can only change one spell when you level up and it's still only one spell list.
I think they nerfed Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter big time by taking out the -5 to hit gets +10 damage. To me, they didn't want to make these two more like Spell Sniper. The biggest nerf to "Speedy" is that Opportunity Attacks against you went from not an issue to disadvantaged.
My main issue with Ritual Caster is that they've opened up Magic Initiate to many more classes and it could be a powerful way to add some extra options for fun. It's not like a ritual is going to give a big advantage in combat, but if a Magic Initiate gets the ability to also keep a ritual book it makes changing spells a little easier since it only happens at a level up. Why would a full caster, especially someone who prepares spells daily, need to take this feat? Wizards can ritual cast without even having it prepared because of their spell book.
I think they nerfed Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter big time by taking out the -5 to hit gets +10 damage. To me, they didn't want to make these two more like Spell Sniper. The biggest nerf to "Speedy" is that Opportunity Attacks against you went from not an issue to disadvantaged.
My main issue with Ritual Caster is that they've opened up Magic Initiate to many more classes and it could be a powerful way to add some extra options for fun. It's not like a ritual is going to give a big advantage in combat, but if a Magic Initiate gets the ability to also keep a ritual book it makes changing spells a little easier since it only happens at a level up. Why would a full caster, especially someone who prepares spells daily, need to take this feat? Wizards can ritual cast without even having it prepared because of their spell book.
Great Weapon Master lost the -5 to hit, +10 to damage, but got a free +2 to +6 damage. It's a loss vs low AC to Attack Bonus targets and a gain every other time.
Sharpshooter picked up the ability to fire while in melee without disadvantage which seems meh. However, being able to ignore disadvantage in a scenario may mean keeping advantage if you have it.
Don't underestimate Speedy. "ALL opportunity attacks are at a disadvantage" with no conditions versus "when you make a melee attack against a creature, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature ..."
Say you hit someone next to a person with Sentinel. In 2014, mobile offered no help because the retaliatory attack was not an attack of opportunity and, even if it were, you didn't attack the person with the Sentinel. Fast forward to 2024, the Sentinel attack is now at disadvantage because it is an attack of opportunity now and all opportunity attacks are at a disadvantage. Run through the reach of 7 guards? All opportunity attacks are at a disadvantage. Punched the Sentinels best friend? Disadvantage.
Immunity is better than disadvantage, but on the other hand all creatures is better than one creature, especially if you killed that one creature.
My main issue with Ritual Caster is that they've opened up Magic Initiate to many more classes and it could be a powerful way to add some extra options for fun. It's not like a ritual is going to give a big advantage in combat, but if a Magic Initiate gets the ability to also keep a ritual book it makes changing spells a little easier since it only happens at a level up. Why would a full caster, especially someone who prepares spells daily, need to take this feat? Wizards can ritual cast without even having it prepared because of their spell book.
Magic Initiate is only different from 2014 in that you aren't restricted to the attribute based on the spell list you chose and when you level up, you can swap out one of your cantrips or your level 1 spell for a spell of the same level. It does not give you the ability to ritual cast spells.
Ritual Caster gives you 2-6 extra prepared spells (that must be rituals) from any mix of spell lists. You can cast them as rituals, but don't have to. For Bards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks that is also 2-6 additional spells known. Also, Paladins and Rangers (and probably Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters) have ritual spells on their spell list, but do not have the ritual caster ability. EDIT: This is no longer true.
Ritual Caster gives you 2-6 extra prepared spells (that must be rituals) from any mix of spell lists. You can cast them as rituals, but don't have to. For Bards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks that is also 2-6 additional spells known. Also, Paladins and Rangers (and probably Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters) have ritual spells on their spell list, but do not have the ritual caster ability.
Everyone can ritual cast in the 2024 rules.
But I do think that the feat went from giving additional utility for non/half-casters in 2014 to mainly being a source of additional spells for casters in 2024. And that seems a bit sad tbh.
But I do think that the feat went from giving additional utility for non/half-casters in 2014 to mainly being a source of additional spells for casters in 2024. And that seems a bit sad tbh.
It definitely now favours casters instead of non-casters but I don't think it's too bad, those 1st level ritual spells are still usable as ritual spells too non-casters, which does mean things like Find Familiar and Speak with Animals can be picked up by any character that grabs the feat, meaning a character that wants to be a non-spellcaster can still handle the interactions with animals. Overall it's still usable for non-casters, just better for casters.
As for a in-universe explanation: Not everyone knows how to cast a spell as a ritual. If you're a Paladin who takes Ritual Caster you still can't ritual cast "Ceremony" unless you chose Ceremony as part of the Ritual Caster feat. I guess learning how a spell is cast and learning how a spell is ritual cast are two different things. So, a spell scroll won't necessarily teach you how a ritual for a spell works.
That's not actually true. Any spellcaster can ritual cast any ritual spell they have prepared. Any paladin who prepares Ceremony can cast it as a ritual.
Oh, that's a 2024 change I hadn't noticed yet.
In 2014 you had to have the "Ritual Casting" class feature to ritual cast spells. All full casters and the Artificer had it. Half casters other than the Artificer, and 1/3-casters didn't. Warlocks only got it through a specific Invocation.
Ritual Caster gives you 2-6 extra prepared spells (that must be rituals) from any mix of spell lists. You can cast them as rituals, but don't have to. For Bards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks that is also 2-6 additional spells known. Also, Paladins and Rangers (and probably Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters) have ritual spells on their spell list, but do not have the ritual caster ability.
Everyone can ritual cast in the 2024 rules.
But I do think that the feat went from giving additional utility for non/half-casters in 2014 to mainly being a source of additional spells for casters in 2024. And that seems a bit sad tbh.
Thanks. Corrected. And I agree about the change, but at the same time, spell casting that scaled up to 6th level (or more with 3rd party content) for the cost of a single feat seems a bit off. Still, I could see a follow up feat to unlock the old behavior, but that seems a bit expensive to access Drawmij's Instant Summons...
My issue with the 2024 upgrade is if im reading it correctly ritual caster can only do level 1 spells where i believe in 2014 you could do other levels as you find them. Or am i reading too far into this
My issue with the 2024 upgrade is if im reading it correctly ritual caster can only do level 1 spells where i believe in 2014 you could do other levels as you find them. Or am i reading too far into this
That's correct; that's a change that was made in the 2024 version.
The new one does allow you to add more as you level up, gaining a new one every time your proficiency bonus goes up. But they still all have to be level 1 spells.
It's hardly game breaking. You can only change one spell when you level up and it's still only one spell list.
It's not terribly game breaking, no, but it feels like an ugly meta-gamey exploit.
Thank you. I spent too much time on it.
Great Weapon Master lost the -5 to hit, +10 to damage, but got a free +2 to +6 damage. It's a loss vs low AC to Attack Bonus targets and a gain every other time.
Sharpshooter picked up the ability to fire while in melee without disadvantage which seems meh. However, being able to ignore disadvantage in a scenario may mean keeping advantage if you have it.
Don't underestimate Speedy. "ALL opportunity attacks are at a disadvantage" with no conditions versus "when you make a melee attack against a creature, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature ..."
Say you hit someone next to a person with Sentinel. In 2014, mobile offered no help because the retaliatory attack was not an attack of opportunity and, even if it were, you didn't attack the person with the Sentinel. Fast forward to 2024, the Sentinel attack is now at disadvantage because it is an attack of opportunity now and all opportunity attacks are at a disadvantage. Run through the reach of 7 guards? All opportunity attacks are at a disadvantage. Punched the Sentinels best friend? Disadvantage.
Immunity is better than disadvantage, but on the other hand all creatures is better than one creature, especially if you killed that one creature.
Magic Initiate is only different from 2014 in that you aren't restricted to the attribute based on the spell list you chose and when you level up, you can swap out one of your cantrips or your level 1 spell for a spell of the same level. It does not give you the ability to ritual cast spells.
Ritual Caster gives you 2-6 extra prepared spells (that must be rituals) from any mix of spell lists. You can cast them as rituals, but don't have to. For Bards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks that is also 2-6 additional spells known.
Also, Paladins and Rangers (and probably Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters) have ritual spells on their spell list, but do not have the ritual caster ability.EDIT: This is no longer true.How to add Tooltips.
Everyone can ritual cast in the 2024 rules.
But I do think that the feat went from giving additional utility for non/half-casters in 2014 to mainly being a source of additional spells for casters in 2024. And that seems a bit sad tbh.
It definitely now favours casters instead of non-casters but I don't think it's too bad, those 1st level ritual spells are still usable as ritual spells too non-casters, which does mean things like Find Familiar and Speak with Animals can be picked up by any character that grabs the feat, meaning a character that wants to be a non-spellcaster can still handle the interactions with animals. Overall it's still usable for non-casters, just better for casters.
Oh, that's a 2024 change I hadn't noticed yet.
In 2014 you had to have the "Ritual Casting" class feature to ritual cast spells. All full casters and the Artificer had it. Half casters other than the Artificer, and 1/3-casters didn't. Warlocks only got it through a specific Invocation.
Thanks. Corrected. And I agree about the change, but at the same time, spell casting that scaled up to 6th level (or more with 3rd party content) for the cost of a single feat seems a bit off. Still, I could see a follow up feat to unlock the old behavior, but that seems a bit expensive to access Drawmij's Instant Summons...
How to add Tooltips.
My issue with the 2024 upgrade is if im reading it correctly ritual caster can only do level 1 spells where i believe in 2014 you could do other levels as you find them. Or am i reading too far into this
That's correct; that's a change that was made in the 2024 version.
The new one does allow you to add more as you level up, gaining a new one every time your proficiency bonus goes up. But they still all have to be level 1 spells.
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