I do not think it works as the spells cast from items section says a spell cast from a item uses its normal casting time.
That means the spell itself overrides the action type (normal magic items use the Magic action; ones that cast a Bonus Action spell using a Bonus action instead...). Ironically, it would mean Fast Hands only works with items that cast normal-magic-action spells. The feature very explicitly lets you use the Magic action as a Bonus Action.
So it works fine for a Wand of Fireballs either way.
However, a Thief is just as good as using a magic item's Bonus Action or Reaction as any other user.
After spending many hours all night contemplating this subject....I came to the conclusion that you can not use fast hands to use wands or cast spell scrolls....but because i must suffer so must you.
In the Magic items section of the DMG there is a scroll of protection, and scroll of Titan summoning. both state this.
"Using a Magic action to read the scroll creates a 5-foot Emanation originating from you. For 5 minutes, creatures of the specified type can’t enter or affect anything in the area. However, if you move in such a way that a creature of the specified type would be inside the area, the effect ends."
"When you take a Magic action to read this scroll, a particular titan named in the scroll appears in an unoccupied space on the ground or in water that you can see within 1 mile of yourself."
This now makes me believe it could be used for reading scrolls? or just this one scroll only? why do you do me like this!? sigh hopefully clarification comes soon.
After spending many hours all night contemplating this subject....I came to the conclusion that you can not use fast hands to use wands or cast spell scrolls....but because i must suffer so must you.
In the Magic items section of the DMG there is a scroll of protection, and scroll of Titan summoning. both state this.
"Using a Magic action to read the scroll creates a 5-foot Emanation originating from you. For 5 minutes, creatures of the specified type can’t enter or affect anything in the area. However, if you move in such a way that a creature of the specified type would be inside the area, the effect ends."
"When you take a Magic action to read this scroll, a particular titan named in the scroll appears in an unoccupied space on the ground or in water that you can see within 1 mile of yourself."
This now makes me believe it could be used for reading scrolls? or just this one scroll only? why do you do me like this!? sigh hopefully clarification comes soon.
If the action being used is the Magic action, Fast Hands can be used, regardless of the specific Magic Item.
After spending many hours all night contemplating this subject....I came to the conclusion that you can not use fast hands to use wands or cast spell scrolls....but because i must suffer so must you.
In the Magic items section of the DMG there is a scroll of protection, and scroll of Titan summoning. both state this.
"Using a Magic action to read the scroll creates a 5-foot Emanation originating from you. For 5 minutes, creatures of the specified type can’t enter or affect anything in the area. However, if you move in such a way that a creature of the specified type would be inside the area, the effect ends."
"When you take a Magic action to read this scroll, a particular titan named in the scroll appears in an unoccupied space on the ground or in water that you can see within 1 mile of yourself."
This now makes me believe it could be used for reading scrolls? or just this one scroll only? why do you do me like this!? sigh hopefully clarification comes soon.
If the action being used is the Magic action, Fast Hands can be used, regardless of the specific Magic Item.
That is possible but it's not explicit. As spell scrolls and other cast a spell items are different in two ways. 1. They specify that they use the cast time of the spell which can be seen to override a thief's fast hands, just as much as a thief's fast hands could be seen to override that. Both are specific rules overriding a general rule, which one trumps the other is not known. 2. You are not actually just activating an item with a magic action, you are using a magic action to cast a spell through an item.
If the action being used is the Magic action, Fast Hands can be used, regardless of the specific Magic Item.
That is possible but it's not explicit.
It is explicit. It's practically a quote from the PHB. "Use an Object. Take the Utilize action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action."
As spell scrolls and other cast a spell items are different in two ways. 1. They specify that they use the cast time of the spell which can be seen to override a thief's fast hands, just as much as a thief's fast hands could be seen to override that. Both are specific rules overriding a general rule, which one trumps the other is not known. 2. You are not actually just activating an item with a magic action, you are using a magic action to cast a spell through an item.
Those don't contradict or override anything, they confirm it. If the scroll specifies it takes the cast time of the spell, and the cast time is a Magic action, then it's a Magic action, as described exactly in the Fast Hands feature. The feature does not care about the distinction between "activating an item" and "casting a spell through an item" --- you're still taking the Magic action.
If the action being used is the Magic action, Fast Hands can be used, regardless of the specific Magic Item.
That is possible but it's not explicit.
It is explicit. It's practically a quote from the PHB. "Use an Object. Take the Utilize action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action."
As spell scrolls and other cast a spell items are different in two ways. 1. They specify that they use the cast time of the spell which can be seen to override a thief's fast hands, just as much as a thief's fast hands could be seen to override that. Both are specific rules overriding a general rule, which one trumps the other is not known. 2. You are not actually just activating an item with a magic action, you are using a magic action to cast a spell through an item.
Those don't contradict or override anything, they confirm it. If the scroll specifies it takes the cast time of the spell, and the cast time is a Magic action, then it's a Magic action, as described exactly in the Fast Hands feature. The feature does not care about the distinction between "activating an item" and "casting a spell through an item" --- you're still taking the Magic action.
I agree again, and in fact, this is a key difference between 2014 and 2024 regarding Fast Hands:
With the 2014 rules:
Activating an Item
Activating some magic items requires a user to do something in particular, such as holding the item and uttering a command word, reading the item if it is a scroll, or drinking it if it is a potion. The description of each item category or individual item details how an item is activated. Certain items use one or more of the following rules related to their activation.
If an item requires an action to activate, that action isn’t a function of the Use an Object action, so a feature such as the rogue’s Fast Hands can’t be used to activate the item.
With the 2024 rules (no mention to Fast Hands):
Activating a Magic Item
It usually takes a Magic action to activate a magic item. The item’s user might also need to do something special. The description of each item category or individual item details how an item is activated. Certain items use the following rules for their activation.
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Feel free to read it that way.
After spending many hours all night contemplating this subject....I came to the conclusion that you can not use fast hands to use wands or cast spell scrolls....but because i must suffer so must you.
In the Magic items section of the DMG there is a scroll of protection, and scroll of Titan summoning. both state this.
"Using a Magic action to read the scroll creates a 5-foot Emanation originating from you. For 5 minutes, creatures of the specified type can’t enter or affect anything in the area. However, if you move in such a way that a creature of the specified type would be inside the area, the effect ends."
"When you take a Magic action to read this scroll, a particular titan named in the scroll appears in an unoccupied space on the ground or in water that you can see within 1 mile of yourself."
This now makes me believe it could be used for reading scrolls? or just this one scroll only? why do you do me like this!? sigh hopefully clarification comes soon.
If the action being used is the Magic action, Fast Hands can be used, regardless of the specific Magic Item.
That is possible but it's not explicit. As spell scrolls and other cast a spell items are different in two ways. 1. They specify that they use the cast time of the spell which can be seen to override a thief's fast hands, just as much as a thief's fast hands could be seen to override that. Both are specific rules overriding a general rule, which one trumps the other is not known. 2. You are not actually just activating an item with a magic action, you are using a magic action to cast a spell through an item.
It is explicit. It's practically a quote from the PHB. "Use an Object. Take the Utilize action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action."
Those don't contradict or override anything, they confirm it. If the scroll specifies it takes the cast time of the spell, and the cast time is a Magic action, then it's a Magic action, as described exactly in the Fast Hands feature. The feature does not care about the distinction between "activating an item" and "casting a spell through an item" --- you're still taking the Magic action.
I agree again, and in fact, this is a key difference between 2014 and 2024 regarding Fast Hands:
With the 2014 rules:
With the 2024 rules (no mention to Fast Hands):