Hey - I understand how a single PC starts and expands an individual Bastion. However, my six players (currently at 9th level) want to create a COMBINED bastion. Am I right in assuming that:
When they build the initial Bastion:
They have a combined number of SIX cramped and SIX roomy Basic Facilities *and*
TWELVE Special Facilities (each pair being specific to their classes) with the appropriate number of Hirelings
Then they get another TWELVE Special Facilities (class limited) for being at 9th.
Then I can agree how much they can spend to expand the Basic Facilities... Also, I know they will want to bulk out the Bastion Defenders - apart from the Recruit order (and how many Defenders does that generate??), how do they do that?
Hey - I understand how a single PC starts and expands an individual Bastion. However, my six players (currently at 9th level) want to create a COMBINED bastion. Am I right in assuming that:
When they build the initial Bastion:
They have a combined number of SIX cramped and SIX roomy Basic Facilities *and*
TWELVE Special Facilities (each pair being specific to their classes) with the appropriate number of Hirelings
Then they get another TWELVE Special Facilities (class limited) for being at 9th.
Then I can agree how much they can spend to expand the Basic Facilities... Also, I know they will want to bulk out the Bastion Defenders - apart from the Recruit order (and how many Defenders does that generate??), how do they do that?
Thanks!!
That math seems correct to me. The special facilities they have can be a mix of level 5 facilities and level 9 facilities.
You get Bastion Defenders by using the Recruit order at a Barrack facility, so at least some of your players will want to have one of those among their special facilities. There are no prerequisites for this facility, so any or all of the players could have one. According to the description, the Recruit order generates "up to four" Bastion Defenders each time it's used; it's up to you as the DM to determine exactly how many. You could just roll a d4, or if you have specific NPCs you want to be available you can use those. Each Barrack supports up to 12 Defenders total, or 25 if they spend the money to expand it.
It's also possible to get monster defenders by using the Recruit order at a Menagerie facility, though that's a level 13 facility that your players won't have access to yet. The "Guest" bastion event can also provide an extra defender for a while depending on how the roll goes.
If they’re looking at defenders, they’ll probably also want an armory which helps keep them alive. There doesn’t seem to be a limit on how many, so in theory 1 standard armory could supply as many barracks of as large a size as they build. I think the idea would be one armory per one barracks, but it’s kind of unclear in a shared bastion.
Yeah the rules are a little iffy there but yes the math looks right. I tried back fitting the bastion rules to castle Netyanar ( sp?) from the return of Tiamat campaign. 5 PCs of L13 and it worked out pretty much the same. They had a few extras they couldn’t quite fit in (trophy room, gambling’s hall, theater) but then the party had also acquired the road house and the hunting lodge so they could go there.
If they’re looking at defenders, they’ll probably also want an armory which helps keep them alive. There doesn’t seem to be a limit on how many, so in theory 1 standard armory could supply as many barracks of as large a size as they build. I think the idea would be one armory per one barracks, but it’s kind of unclear in a shared bastion.
Yeah, the RAW of how Armories, Smithies, and Barracks interact in a joined Bastion is a bit fuzzy. Imo it's fair to let them cooperate if they're a part of the same complex, but arguably RAW says the Smithy and Armory only apply for Barracks belong to the same player.
The Armory is a trap. It only costs you money. On the very slim chance you actually get attacked (5% if maintain order issued, just get sending stones to avoid that) it changes the expected defender losses from ~1 to ~0.75. Attackers would have to roll 5 Ones on 6d6 to defeat the basic 4 defenders in a Barracks. After that attack you have to rebuy for every defender even if you lost none. At worst, even if you have no defenders, only one special facility is unusable for one turn.
It's a cosmetic choice. There's a very narrow set of "optimal" picks for facilities, but Bastions are more about "what kind of base do I want my character to have" than impacting your in-game performance.
Strictly mechanically, defenders and armories are traps. You, at most, lose access to 1 facility for 1 turn whenever the bastion gets attacked. If your party has access to long-range communication (i.e. sending), you'll never trigger an attack as the bastion should never take the Maintain action.
Narratively, having both a barracks and armory would make sense if you're crafting very expensive stuff like suits of plate armor or magic items. You'd want to protect those assets well, and if your workplace has a tendency of getting your defenders killed, you'll get a bad reputation.
From my own experience, fluff is fun. My "bastion" is a bandit camp in the woods, and I could always relocate to a flophouse in town if my party wants the defenders. My facilities are the barracks and armory because my gaggle of misfits are bound to get into trouble at some point, and I'd rather they not die if given the chance.
The real points of many of the facilities like the armory, at least at L9+, is that they allow the PCs to finally craft magic items - granted only common and uncommon, but that is still quite useful.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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Hey - I understand how a single PC starts and expands an individual Bastion. However, my six players (currently at 9th level) want to create a COMBINED bastion. Am I right in assuming that:
Then I can agree how much they can spend to expand the Basic Facilities... Also, I know they will want to bulk out the Bastion Defenders - apart from the Recruit order (and how many Defenders does that generate??), how do they do that?
Thanks!!
That math seems correct to me. The special facilities they have can be a mix of level 5 facilities and level 9 facilities.
You get Bastion Defenders by using the Recruit order at a Barrack facility, so at least some of your players will want to have one of those among their special facilities. There are no prerequisites for this facility, so any or all of the players could have one. According to the description, the Recruit order generates "up to four" Bastion Defenders each time it's used; it's up to you as the DM to determine exactly how many. You could just roll a d4, or if you have specific NPCs you want to be available you can use those. Each Barrack supports up to 12 Defenders total, or 25 if they spend the money to expand it.
It's also possible to get monster defenders by using the Recruit order at a Menagerie facility, though that's a level 13 facility that your players won't have access to yet. The "Guest" bastion event can also provide an extra defender for a while depending on how the roll goes.
pronouns: he/she/they
If they’re looking at defenders, they’ll probably also want an armory which helps keep them alive. There doesn’t seem to be a limit on how many, so in theory 1 standard armory could supply as many barracks of as large a size as they build. I think the idea would be one armory per one barracks, but it’s kind of unclear in a shared bastion.
Yeah the rules are a little iffy there but yes the math looks right. I tried back fitting the bastion rules to castle Netyanar ( sp?) from the return of Tiamat campaign. 5 PCs of L13 and it worked out pretty much the same. They had a few extras they couldn’t quite fit in (trophy room, gambling’s hall, theater) but then the party had also acquired the road house and the hunting lodge so they could go there.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
The Armory is a trap. It only costs you money. On the very slim chance you actually get attacked (5% if maintain order issued, just get sending stones to avoid that) it changes the expected defender losses from ~1 to ~0.75. Attackers would have to roll 5 Ones on 6d6 to defeat the basic 4 defenders in a Barracks. After that attack you have to rebuy for every defender even if you lost none. At worst, even if you have no defenders, only one special facility is unusable for one turn.
It's a cosmetic choice. There's a very narrow set of "optimal" picks for facilities, but Bastions are more about "what kind of base do I want my character to have" than impacting your in-game performance.
Strictly mechanically, defenders and armories are traps. You, at most, lose access to 1 facility for 1 turn whenever the bastion gets attacked. If your party has access to long-range communication (i.e. sending), you'll never trigger an attack as the bastion should never take the Maintain action.
Narratively, having both a barracks and armory would make sense if you're crafting very expensive stuff like suits of plate armor or magic items. You'd want to protect those assets well, and if your workplace has a tendency of getting your defenders killed, you'll get a bad reputation.
From my own experience, fluff is fun. My "bastion" is a bandit camp in the woods, and I could always relocate to a flophouse in town if my party wants the defenders. My facilities are the barracks and armory because my gaggle of misfits are bound to get into trouble at some point, and I'd rather they not die if given the chance.
The real points of many of the facilities like the armory, at least at L9+, is that they allow the PCs to finally craft magic items - granted only common and uncommon, but that is still quite useful.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.