In PBH 2024 PBH, The Monk Stunning Strike ability says
"On a failed save, the target has the Stunned condition until the start of your next turn. On a successful save, the target’s Speed is halved until the start of your next turn, and the next attack roll made against the target before then has Advantage."
So, even if the punchee saves, the Monk still gets their next attack with advantage and the punchee only gets half movement on their turn. Ouch. Sure.
But if the punchee Fails their save, they're kind of better off. At least in terms of movement. I think. Which doesn't seem right.
Specifically (apart from the stuff in the Stunned [Condition] rule about Attack effect and Saving Throw effect), the description of only says:
"Incapacitated. You have the Incapacitated condition."
And the Incapacitated [Condition] only says:
"While you have the Incapacitated condition, you experience the following effects.
Inactive. You can’t take any action, Bonus Action, or Reaction.
No Concentration. Your Concentration is broken.
Speechless. You can’t speak.
Surprised. If you’re Incapacitated when you roll Initiative, you have Disadvantage on the roll."
So taking the Move part of your turn is still totally on the cards.
So you can move morewhen you fail your save (and are Stunned) than when you succeed, are not Stunned (and your movement's halved).
Am I misunderstanding something or is that a rules oversight?
And if so, can D&D pls issue a correction (and can D&D Beyond, pls update the digital version)? (Is that a thing that happens?)
PS, if they don't want to mention movement in the Stunned or Incapacitated conditions for other game balance reasons they could add the specifics to the Stunning Strike feat. Eg. "a failed save means they are Stunned and can't move until they recover from the stunned condition..." etc.
A stunned creature can not take an action, that includes Dash, the creature that has it's movement halved can still dash and thus at the cost of their action still can achieve the same movement, alternatively they could also disengage.
It has been pointed out that stunned doesn't affect movement, and many people consider it an oversight.
On the other hand, it is certainly worse to fail the save than succeed because stunned is far worse than moving at half speed and having one singular attack affected. Incapacitated takes actions away (in a game where the number one balance factor is number of actions). The saving throws make damaging spells and grapples trivial. Then instead of just one attack having advantage, an entire round's worth of attacks are at advantage. Stunned makes you vulnerable to all sorts of damage with nothing to do but run away.
FYI I'm landing on the side of the Saved can Dash plus half-move therefore Fail is still worse for movement (as well as all the other neg effects, of course).
Thanks for responses and for pointing to earlier convo on this. Appreciated.
FYI I'm landing on the side of the Saved can Dash plus half-move therefore Fail is still worse for movement (as well as all the other neg effects, of course).
Thanks for responses and for pointing to earlier convo on this. Appreciated.
I think you misunderstand. The character making a save has half movement but can still Dash. By executing a Dash, they move just as far as the character who failed the save (who has regular movement but no other actions). The character who failed cannot move faster than the character who saved, so failing has no advantage.
The character who succeeded in the save doesn't have to use Dash. They can elect to do other actions, such as Attack, Disengage, Dodge, Magic, etc., and still move half their normal movement. In other words, their movement is at least as good as the other character's and is actually better since they can choose to expend some of that movement for options unavailable to the stunned character.
Hi all,
Seeking clarification and/or update to rule...
In PBH 2024 PBH, The Monk Stunning Strike ability says
So, even if the punchee saves, the Monk still gets their next attack with advantage and the punchee only gets half movement on their turn. Ouch. Sure.
But if the punchee Fails their save, they're kind of better off. At least in terms of movement. I think. Which doesn't seem right.
Specifically (apart from the stuff in the Stunned [Condition] rule about Attack effect and Saving Throw effect), the description of only says:
And the Incapacitated [Condition] only says:
And the types of Action only say:
So taking the Move part of your turn is still totally on the cards.
So you can move more when you fail your save (and are Stunned) than when you succeed, are not Stunned (and your movement's halved).
Am I misunderstanding something or is that a rules oversight?
And if so, can D&D pls issue a correction (and can D&D Beyond, pls update the digital version)? (Is that a thing that happens?)
PS, if they don't want to mention movement in the Stunned or Incapacitated conditions for other game balance reasons they could add the specifics to the Stunning Strike feat. Eg. "a failed save means they are Stunned and can't move until they recover from the stunned condition..." etc.
A stunned creature can not take an action, that includes Dash, the creature that has it's movement halved can still dash and thus at the cost of their action still can achieve the same movement, alternatively they could also disengage.
It has been pointed out that stunned doesn't affect movement, and many people consider it an oversight.
On the other hand, it is certainly worse to fail the save than succeed because stunned is far worse than moving at half speed and having one singular attack affected. Incapacitated takes actions away (in a game where the number one balance factor is number of actions). The saving throws make damaging spells and grapples trivial. Then instead of just one attack having advantage, an entire round's worth of attacks are at advantage. Stunned makes you vulnerable to all sorts of damage with nothing to do but run away.
This topic was also debated here: 2024 Monk Stunning Strike and the Stunned condition - the creature can now run away at full speed when stunned? - Rules & Game Mechanics
FYI I'm landing on the side of the Saved can Dash plus half-move therefore Fail is still worse for movement (as well as all the other neg effects, of course).
Thanks for responses and for pointing to earlier convo on this. Appreciated.
I think you misunderstand. The character making a save has half movement but can still Dash. By executing a Dash, they move just as far as the character who failed the save (who has regular movement but no other actions). The character who failed cannot move faster than the character who saved, so failing has no advantage.
The character who succeeded in the save doesn't have to use Dash. They can elect to do other actions, such as Attack, Disengage, Dodge, Magic, etc., and still move half their normal movement. In other words, their movement is at least as good as the other character's and is actually better since they can choose to expend some of that movement for options unavailable to the stunned character.
Thanks Skald, no I got it. Cheers