I feel like this has yet to be answered, and I was wondering the same thing. Is there a guideline for converting a single creature to a swarm? A template?
Yeah I too had questions about creating swarms of a creature type. Are there rules on creating swarms from various monsters listed in the Monster Manual? They have examples, but what if I want to create a swarm of crabs? How do I alter the original creatures stat block to create a swarm? A single crab has an attack bonus of +0 and does 1 bludgeoning damage. How do I adjust this if it's a swarm of crabs? A single bat is (much like a crab) +0 attack bonus and 1 damage, but a swarm has +3 attack bonus and does 2d4 piercing damage. How did they get that number? If a bat (or a crab) is a 0 CR creature, how does that change if it's a swarm of 1/4 CR creatures? 1 CR? etc. I can't find any info on how those numbers were determined (as in the AB of a swarm vs. the single creature, or the damage dice of a swarm vs. a single creature). Anyone?
I feel like this has yet to be answered, and I was wondering the same thing. Is there a guideline for converting a single creature to a swarm? A template? (I don't know how to delete my previous post which was supposed to be a quote like this one.)
I feel like this has yet to be answered, and I was wondering the same thing. Is there a guideline for converting a single creature to a swarm? A template?
No. You can easily extract the swarm rules from monster entries and apply them to any critter, but other modifications, like hit bonus and damage, in reality depend entirely on desired CR and have no basis in internal consistency. 5E is not that kind of game.
If you want internal consistency, I can tell you the CR rules don't care how many attacks damage is delivered by, so you can always change X attacks at damage 1 to 1 attack at damage X without impacting CR, and the rules for trading damage for accuracy are straightforward: +1 to hit is equivalent to 3 damage.
If you want internal consistency, I can tell you the CR rules don't care how many attacks damage is delivered by, so you can always change X attacks at damage 1 to 1 attack at damage X without impacting CR, and the rules for trading damage for accuracy are straightforward: +1 to hit is equivalent to 3 damage.
It should be noted that the latter part of that (acc to damage) is only true for CR 1-20.
Super new here, though not new to 5e. and I know I'm kinda rezzing this thread; I'd just rather do this than start a new thread, since all of you are already here.
I know Swarms are immune to the Grappled condition, which makes sense. However, can't a Swarm grapple a creature using the normal rules? I don't see why not, thinking back to the tooth fairy fight from Hellboy 2 or other similar scenes where a larger creature is entirely engulfed and held still by a swarm of tiny critters as they're eaten alive or torn apart.
But, searching online didn't really turn up any definite yes or no answer, so I was hoping to find one here.
It should be noted that the latter part of that (acc to damage) is only true for CR 1-20.
It's not actually true there either. +3 CR gives +18 dpr and +1 to hit, which means +18 dpr is actually only worth +2.5 dpr by itself, meaning +1 CR is worth 7.2 dpr and +1 to hit is worth 3.6 (on the hit point side of things, +18 hp for +1 CR, and each point of AC is worth 9).
I know Swarms are immune to the Grappled condition, which makes sense. However, can't a Swarm grapple a creature using the normal rules? I don't see why not, thinking back to the tooth fairy fight from Hellboy 2 or other similar scenes where a larger creature is entirely engulfed and held still by a swarm of tiny critters as they're eaten alive or torn apart.
Being immune to the Grappled condition does in no way stop a swarm from being able to grapple as an attack.
I know Swarms are immune to the Grappled condition, which makes sense. However, can't a Swarm grapple a creature using the normal rules? I don't see why not, thinking back to the tooth fairy fight from Hellboy 2 or other similar scenes where a larger creature is entirely engulfed and held still by a swarm of tiny critters as they're eaten alive or torn apart.
Being immune to the Grappled condition does in no way stop a swarm from being able to grapple as an attack.
is that a 5e only thing? I was pretty sure in a grapple, both creatures suffer from the condition. Or is it a case of they can grapple, but they don't get the condition due to immunity?
I know Swarms are immune to the Grappled condition, which makes sense. However, can't a Swarm grapple a creature using the normal rules? I don't see why not, thinking back to the tooth fairy fight from Hellboy 2 or other similar scenes where a larger creature is entirely engulfed and held still by a swarm of tiny critters as they're eaten alive or torn apart.
Being immune to the Grappled condition does in no way stop a swarm from being able to grapple as an attack.
is that a 5e only thing? I was pretty sure in a grapple, both creatures suffer from the condition. Or is it a case of they can grapple, but they don't get the condition due to immunity?
It is a 5e thing. When an attacker grapples a target only the target suffers the Grappled condition.
is that a 5e only thing? I was pretty sure in a grapple, both creatures suffer from the condition.Or is it a case of they can grapple, but they don't get the condition due to immunity?
Not in 5E. The Grappler feat allows you to pin an opponent and that makes both be restrained but for a normal grapple then the one making the grapple is not hindered by it.
Ultimately it is up to the DM to make sense of these encounters and the associated mechanics. Dealing so much damage the swarm disperses or the archer finds the precise moment that the swarm of creatures get in a straight line makes all the difference to the players.
Oh, oops, my bad - I just did a search on swarm and opened the first result which was Swarm of Ravens.
Trust me to randomly pick the one swarm that's different to all the others and has a 5ft reach.
Thanks for the save. :)
The reach 5ft and one creature etc etc is separated by a comma. as with all things written in this manner it is one or the other. It may either be in the swarms space or be withing 5 ft. commas separate options within that instance and semi colons separate instances. Much with damage immunities fire;slashing, bludgeoning, piercing damage from non magical attacks; lightning. The range is not a flat 0 just because there is an option within that instance for 0.
It is likely written like this because it follows swarm rules, can occupy the same space as another creature and can attack that space as it is a swarm. If they had only written reach 5ft, you'd be having the same discussion as to whether it could attack things in the same space or maybe even if they could occupy the same space.
I feel like this has yet to be answered, and I was wondering the same thing. Is there a guideline for converting a single creature to a swarm? A template?
I feel like this has yet to be answered, and I was wondering the same thing. Is there a guideline for converting a single creature to a swarm? A template? (I don't know how to delete my previous post which was supposed to be a quote like this one.)
No. You can easily extract the swarm rules from monster entries and apply them to any critter, but other modifications, like hit bonus and damage, in reality depend entirely on desired CR and have no basis in internal consistency. 5E is not that kind of game.
If you want internal consistency, I can tell you the CR rules don't care how many attacks damage is delivered by, so you can always change X attacks at damage 1 to 1 attack at damage X without impacting CR, and the rules for trading damage for accuracy are straightforward: +1 to hit is equivalent to 3 damage.
It should be noted that the latter part of that (acc to damage) is only true for CR 1-20.
Super new here, though not new to 5e. and I know I'm kinda rezzing this thread; I'd just rather do this than start a new thread, since all of you are already here.
I know Swarms are immune to the Grappled condition, which makes sense. However, can't a Swarm grapple a creature using the normal rules? I don't see why not, thinking back to the tooth fairy fight from Hellboy 2 or other similar scenes where a larger creature is entirely engulfed and held still by a swarm of tiny critters as they're eaten alive or torn apart.
But, searching online didn't really turn up any definite yes or no answer, so I was hoping to find one here.
Cheers.
It's not actually true there either. +3 CR gives +18 dpr and +1 to hit, which means +18 dpr is actually only worth +2.5 dpr by itself, meaning +1 CR is worth 7.2 dpr and +1 to hit is worth 3.6 (on the hit point side of things, +18 hp for +1 CR, and each point of AC is worth 9).
Being immune to the Grappled condition does in no way stop a swarm from being able to grapple as an attack.
is that a 5e only thing? I was pretty sure in a grapple, both creatures suffer from the condition. Or is it a case of they can grapple, but they don't get the condition due to immunity?
It is a 5e thing. When an attacker grapples a target only the target suffers the Grappled condition.
If the grappler was also grappled, it wouldn't be able to move it.
Not in 5E. The Grappler feat allows you to pin an opponent and that makes both be restrained but for a normal grapple then the one making the grapple is not hindered by it.
Slight necro, but I agree.
Ultimately it is up to the DM to make sense of these encounters and the associated mechanics. Dealing so much damage the swarm disperses or the archer finds the precise moment that the swarm of creatures get in a straight line makes all the difference to the players.
The reach 5ft and one creature etc etc is separated by a comma. as with all things written in this manner it is one or the other. It may either be in the swarms space or be withing 5 ft. commas separate options within that instance and semi colons separate instances. Much with damage immunities fire;slashing, bludgeoning, piercing damage from non magical attacks; lightning. The range is not a flat 0 just because there is an option within that instance for 0.
It is likely written like this because it follows swarm rules, can occupy the same space as another creature and can attack that space as it is a swarm. If they had only written reach 5ft, you'd be having the same discussion as to whether it could attack things in the same space or maybe even if they could occupy the same space.