To clarify, I'm not trying to replicate the abilities of a Order of Scribes Wizard (who can use their awakened spell books as the target cast location for certain spells), I'm trying to deduce whether or not by using a familiar that can speak your verbal casting language (either a naturally bonded creature or from a class/background feature) can trigger a spell YOU have written in a spell scroll using the proper components and magical knowledge?
I'm not sure if its possible, but I love the idea of sending off a familiar with a scroll of magic missile to use and release the magic at a distant group of enemies if the situation calls for it. Another application could be if I'm stuck in a prison cell, I could call upon my familiar top use a scroll of Knock to free me, or a scroll of invisibility to sneak inside and steal the prison guards keys.
I understand that in order to cast certain magic, you need to have the Verbal, somatic, or physical components necessary as well as the spell slots available in regards to the specific spell. Although, spell scrolls are one of many exceptions to this base rule! You only need to speak the spells name and have the spell on the spell scroll be from your classes respective spellcasting list. So by that definition, if my familiar was taught one of these basic spells like magic missile, then could It use the respective spell scroll as well? or if the familiar in question is of a race that already knows certain spell innately, like a slime that knows the spell acid splash at birth and such!
No. Even according to your incorrect understanding of these rules that wouldn't work. You cannot just teach a familiar a spell, and if it knows it innately, it isn't from a spell list. There is also no language about speaking the spell's name in the description of spell scrolls.
Yeah, that doesn't work for several reasons, most obviously because spell scrolls require the user to have the spell on their class spell list, and familiars don't have a class, so they don't have a class spell list. Also, while casting a spell from a scroll doesn't require material components, it still requires verbal and/or somatic components if the spell itself does.
It is worth pointing out that you can cast a spell with a range of Touch and have it delivered by your familiar, as long as the familiar is within 100 feet. There's nothing about that that says it can't be a spell cast from a scroll, but you have to be the one casting it (and holding the scroll) rather than the familiar. This would possibly be useful in the Invisibility example.
[...] Also, while casting a spell from a scroll doesn't require material components, it still requires verbal and/or somatic components if the spell itself does. [...]
Let me put here something I said in a different thread:
The debate about Scrolls and whether they need components or not is interesting.
You could argue the 2018 errata in the DMG was meant to say that spells from spell scrolls need Verbal and Somatic components.
But then, you could also argue that the text is just clarifying or reminding us that you don't need any components at all, not even Material.
And finally, we also have this tweet from the Dev (not official ruling; link here):
@DakotaHansen13 Casting from a spell scroll. It doesn't say it requires V/S components, but specifically lists not using M. Does that line override the general rule about not needing V/S/M for any spells from magic items, so you would need V/S? @JeremyECrawford Spell scrolls follow the normal rule for casting a spell from a magic item: you don't need to provide any components to cast the spell (V, S, or M). Spell scrolls have a twist, though: you must read the scroll to cast its spell. This is effectively an ad hoc component.
That's a good point. In fact, that would actually essentially mean that any spell you cast from scroll kind of has both a verbal component (reading the words) and a somatic component (holding the scroll in your hand to read it) even if the spell is something like Command or Ice Knife that normally only has one or the other. Because you would be unable to cast it under the same conditions where you'd be unable to cast a spell that has those components (gagged/silenced, hands tied, etc.)
Yeah, that doesn't work for several reasons, most obviously because spell scrolls require the user to have the spell on their class spell list, and familiars don't have a class, so they don't have a class spell list. Also, while casting a spell from a scroll doesn't require material components, it still requires verbal and/or somatic components if the spell itself does.
It is worth pointing out that you can cast a spell with a range of Touch and have it delivered by your familiar, as long as the familiar is within 100 feet. There's nothing about that that says it can't be a spell cast from a scroll, but you have to be the one casting it (and holding the scroll) rather than the familiar. This would possibly be useful in the Invisibility example.
Actually, I don't think scrolls require any components to cast the spell but the fact that the spell scroll text mentions material components and not the other components does make one wonder. However, as written, the spell scroll magic item does not list verbal or somatic components as being required and the general rule in the 2024 DMG is clear that casting a spell from a magic item requires no components.
"Spells Cast from Items
Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn’t expend any of the user’s spell slots, and requires no components unless the item’s description notes otherwise. The spell uses its normal casting time, range, and duration, and the user of the item must concentrate if the spell requires Concentration. Many items, such as Potions, bypass the casting of a spell and confer the spell’s effects with its usual duration. Certain items make exceptions to these rules, changing the casting time, duration, or other parts of a spell.
A magic item may require the user to use their own spellcasting ability when casting a spell from the item. If the user has more than one spellcasting ability, the user chooses which one to use with the item. If the user doesn’t have a spellcasting ability, their spellcasting ability modifier is +0 for the item, and the user’s Proficiency Bonus applies."
A Spell Scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without Material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time. Once the spell is cast, the scroll crumbles to dust. If the casting is interrupted, the scroll isn’t lost."
The spell scroll description re-iterates that reading the scroll allows the spell to be cast without material components but it does not ADD a requirement that the spell requires verbal or somatic components which the general rule removes from an item that casts spells (including spell scrolls) "requires no components unless the item’s description notes otherwise."
----
As far as the OP's question goes - it doesn't work because a familiar doesn't have a spell list.
That's a good point. In fact, that would actually essentially mean that any spell you cast from scroll kind of has both a verbal component (reading the words) and a somatic component (holding the scroll in your hand to read it) even if the spell is something like Command or Ice Knife that normally only has one or the other. Because you would be unable to cast it under the same conditions where you'd be unable to cast a spell that has those components (gagged/silenced, hands tied, etc.)
Just a quick comment, the scroll has to be read but there is nothing in the description requiring it to be read out loud. A DM is free to rule however they wish but RAW, reading a scroll does not require a verbal component. It also only requires that the scroll be in a position where it can be read to activate it ... it doesn't say that the character needs to be holding the scroll.
I'd rule you have to be in presence of a Spell Scroll to active it and cast its spell that unleash the magic in it, simply reading it from elsewhere is insufficient.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
To clarify, I'm not trying to replicate the abilities of a Order of Scribes Wizard (who can use their awakened spell books as the target cast location for certain spells), I'm trying to deduce whether or not by using a familiar that can speak your verbal casting language (either a naturally bonded creature or from a class/background feature) can trigger a spell YOU have written in a spell scroll using the proper components and magical knowledge?
I'm not sure if its possible, but I love the idea of sending off a familiar with a scroll of magic missile to use and release the magic at a distant group of enemies if the situation calls for it. Another application could be if I'm stuck in a prison cell, I could call upon my familiar top use a scroll of Knock to free me, or a scroll of invisibility to sneak inside and steal the prison guards keys.
I understand that in order to cast certain magic, you need to have the Verbal, somatic, or physical components necessary as well as the spell slots available in regards to the specific spell. Although, spell scrolls are one of many exceptions to this base rule! You only need to speak the spells name and have the spell on the spell scroll be from your classes respective spellcasting list. So by that definition, if my familiar was taught one of these basic spells like magic missile, then could It use the respective spell scroll as well? or if the familiar in question is of a race that already knows certain spell innately, like a slime that knows the spell acid splash at birth and such!
Please lend me your input!
No. Even according to your incorrect understanding of these rules that wouldn't work. You cannot just teach a familiar a spell, and if it knows it innately, it isn't from a spell list. There is also no language about speaking the spell's name in the description of spell scrolls.
Yeah, that doesn't work for several reasons, most obviously because spell scrolls require the user to have the spell on their class spell list, and familiars don't have a class, so they don't have a class spell list. Also, while casting a spell from a scroll doesn't require material components, it still requires verbal and/or somatic components if the spell itself does.
It is worth pointing out that you can cast a spell with a range of Touch and have it delivered by your familiar, as long as the familiar is within 100 feet. There's nothing about that that says it can't be a spell cast from a scroll, but you have to be the one casting it (and holding the scroll) rather than the familiar. This would possibly be useful in the Invisibility example.
pronouns: he/she/they
Let me put here something I said in a different thread:
That's a good point. In fact, that would actually essentially mean that any spell you cast from scroll kind of has both a verbal component (reading the words) and a somatic component (holding the scroll in your hand to read it) even if the spell is something like Command or Ice Knife that normally only has one or the other. Because you would be unable to cast it under the same conditions where you'd be unable to cast a spell that has those components (gagged/silenced, hands tied, etc.)
pronouns: he/she/they
Actually, I don't think scrolls require any components to cast the spell but the fact that the spell scroll text mentions material components and not the other components does make one wonder. However, as written, the spell scroll magic item does not list verbal or somatic components as being required and the general rule in the 2024 DMG is clear that casting a spell from a magic item requires no components.
"Spells Cast from Items
Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn’t expend any of the user’s spell slots, and requires no components unless the item’s description notes otherwise. The spell uses its normal casting time, range, and duration, and the user of the item must concentrate if the spell requires Concentration. Many items, such as Potions, bypass the casting of a spell and confer the spell’s effects with its usual duration. Certain items make exceptions to these rules, changing the casting time, duration, or other parts of a spell.
A magic item may require the user to use their own spellcasting ability when casting a spell from the item. If the user has more than one spellcasting ability, the user chooses which one to use with the item. If the user doesn’t have a spellcasting ability, their spellcasting ability modifier is +0![]()
for the item, and the user’s Proficiency Bonus applies."
The text for the Spell scroll magic item states:
"Spell Scroll
Scroll, Rarity Varies
A Spell Scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without Material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time. Once the spell is cast, the scroll crumbles to dust. If the casting is interrupted, the scroll isn’t lost."
The spell scroll description re-iterates that reading the scroll allows the spell to be cast without material components but it does not ADD a requirement that the spell requires verbal or somatic components which the general rule removes from an item that casts spells (including spell scrolls) "requires no components unless the item’s description notes otherwise."
----
As far as the OP's question goes - it doesn't work because a familiar doesn't have a spell list.
Just a quick comment, the scroll has to be read but there is nothing in the description requiring it to be read out loud. A DM is free to rule however they wish but RAW, reading a scroll does not require a verbal component. It also only requires that the scroll be in a position where it can be read to activate it ... it doesn't say that the character needs to be holding the scroll.
I'd rule you have to be in presence of a Spell Scroll to active it and cast its spell that unleash the magic in it, simply reading it from elsewhere is insufficient.