Yes, Mage Hand is purely magical and not propelled by "ordinary" forces, so it should def work.
Chromatic Orb, I would say "No" to, since the caster using using basic muscular strength to throw the orb.
Magic Stone, "no", for same reason as Chromatic Orb.
I think the big grey areas are spells like Acid Splash and Firebolt because "you hurl" is in both spell descriptions. That makes it sound like it is actually the spellcaster using their muscle to throw something instead of the magic itself.
Not sure why Chromatic Orb is supposedly using muscular strength. It's still a spell attack and is explicitly described as a "sphere of energy", so there's no reason why a Firebolt should be good but it shouldn't.
Yes, Mage Hand is purely magical and not propelled by "ordinary" forces, so it should def work.
Chromatic Orb, I would say "No" to, since the caster using using basic muscular strength to throw the orb.
Magic Stone, "no", for same reason as Chromatic Orb.
I think the big grey areas are spells like Acid Splash and Firebolt because "you hurl" is in both spell descriptions. That makes it sound like it is actually the spellcaster using their muscle to throw something instead of the magic itself.
Not sure why Chromatic Orb is supposedly using muscular strength. It's still a spell attack and is explicitly described as a "sphere of energy", so there's no reason why a Firebolt should be good but it shouldn't.
"You hurl" is the relevant text I was referring to. "You" being the spellcaster. Just because the sphere itself is magical energy does not necessarily imply that the means of transport for that energy is magical itself. Contrast this with something like Lighting Bolt: "A stroke of lightning...blasts out from you in a direction you choose"; or Witch Bolt: "A beam of crackling blue energy lances out toward a creature within range..." where it's clear that magic is doing all the work of getting to the target.
Yes, Mage Hand is purely magical and not propelled by "ordinary" forces, so it should def work.
Chromatic Orb, I would say "No" to, since the caster using using basic muscular strength to throw the orb.
Magic Stone, "no", for same reason as Chromatic Orb.
I think the big grey areas are spells like Acid Splash and Firebolt because "you hurl" is in both spell descriptions. That makes it sound like it is actually the spellcaster using their muscle to throw something instead of the magic itself.
Not sure why Chromatic Orb is supposedly using muscular strength. It's still a spell attack and is explicitly described as a "sphere of energy", so there's no reason why a Firebolt should be good but it shouldn't.
"You hurl" is the relevant text I was referring to. "You" being the spellcaster. Just because the sphere itself is magical energy does not necessarily imply that the means of transport for that energy is magical itself. Contrast this with something like Lighting Bolt: "A stroke of lightning...blasts out from you in a direction you choose"; or Witch Bolt: "A beam of crackling blue energy lances out toward a creature within range..." where it's clear that magic is doing all the work of getting to the target.
And again we return to the part where Firebolt uses the exact same verbiage in the fluff part of the description. This is a fairly arbitrary hair you're trying to split, and really doesn't seem to line up with RAW or RAI of Wind Wall imo. Spells that prevent other spells from crossing them are usually very explicit about it, as a spells that interact with ranged attack rolls whose courses intersect with their AoE.
Yes, Mage Hand is purely magical and not propelled by "ordinary" forces, so it should def work.
Chromatic Orb, I would say "No" to, since the caster using using basic muscular strength to throw the orb.
Magic Stone, "no", for same reason as Chromatic Orb.
I think the big grey areas are spells like Acid Splash and Firebolt because "you hurl" is in both spell descriptions. That makes it sound like it is actually the spellcaster using their muscle to throw something instead of the magic itself.
Not sure why Chromatic Orb is supposedly using muscular strength. It's still a spell attack and is explicitly described as a "sphere of energy", so there's no reason why a Firebolt should be good but it shouldn't.
"You hurl" is the relevant text I was referring to. "You" being the spellcaster. Just because the sphere itself is magical energy does not necessarily imply that the means of transport for that energy is magical itself. Contrast this with something like Lighting Bolt: "A stroke of lightning...blasts out from you in a direction you choose"; or Witch Bolt: "A beam of crackling blue energy lances out toward a creature within range..." where it's clear that magic is doing all the work of getting to the target.
And again we return to the part where Firebolt uses the exact same verbiage in the fluff part of the description. This is a fairly arbitrary hair you're trying to split, and really doesn't seem to line up with RAW or RAI of Wind Wall imo. Spells that prevent other spells from crossing them are usually very explicit about it, as a spells that interact with ranged attack rolls whose courses intersect with their AoE.
Well, I stand corrected on the point that Chromatic Sphere does use the same language as Firebolt. Nevertheless, I would still say that "you hurl" could easily imply that the caster is physically flinging something.at the target(s). As such, it's a grey area for the DM to adjudicate and allowing or disallowing the "you hurl" spells to get through Wind Wall would be quite justified.
The issue here isnt "how" it's being thrown, it's "what" is being thrown.
Based off of windwalls description (The strong wind keeps fog, smoke, and other gases at bay. Small or smaller flying creatures or objects can't pass through the wall. Loose, lightweight materials brought into the wall fly upward. Arrows, bolts, and other ordinary projectiles launched at targets behind the wall are deflected upward and automatically miss. (Boulders hurled by giants or siege engines, and similar projectiles, are unaffected.) Creatures in gaseous form can't pass through it.), we have to ask ourselves a couple things: -is it an object -is the object lightweight (i believe 5lb? its never explicitly stated, but a “light” crossbow is 5lb) -is the *insert noun* affected by wind
Firebolt, you hurl a mote(a tiny piece of substance). what substance? at best, just fire, but fire is a plasma, and fire is definitely blocked by wind.
Chromatic orb, you hurl “energy” this is not "matter", so it's not blocked. Ive never heard of wind redirecting lightning.
Poison spray, you are spraying a gas/liquid, obvious, blocked.
Fireball, streak of light, not blocked... however, the AOE fire, would definitely be, the plasma (and the heat emanating from it) would all be blown upwards.
Acid Arrow, a shimmering green arrow, this is a good, debatable, one and as a DM, i would go with how the party feels about it. A shimmering green arrow streaks toward a target within range and bursts in a spray of acid. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 4d4 acid damage immediately and 2d4 acid damage at the end of its next turn. On a miss, the arrow splashes the target with acid for half as much of the initial damage and no damage at the end of its next turn. This sounds like an arrow made of magic, that, once it hits its target, it turns into acid (or, is filled with acid, either way, doesn’t matter, i would say its not effected, but i could see counterpoints.).
Levitate, i would say a creature or object affected by levitate does not have a weight, and would 100% be affected by windwall, to 100% of its affect. I would rule you moved 50ft in one round, and until levitate is over, you move that fast, in the same direction, basically falling upwards (tho whoever used levitate could fight it with 20ft/round of resistance, or add 20ft/round).
Magehand, "spectral" hand, not affected, can carry weight up to 10lb, that's more than windwall(but slower), i would say it can carry items through windwall, but, the object has to be over 5lb.
I would rule elementals cannot pass through windwall.
Also, an exception cannot be made for an objects velocity, because, with a longbow, you can shoot an arrow from 600ft, hitting in one round, which is 12x the velocity of the wind in windwall, but windwall explicitly states, no ordinary arrow.
CONCLUSION As stated to begin with, its “what” is being thrown into the windwall, not “how” it is being thrown.
Spells only do what they say they do...and wind wall only blocks:
fog, gas, smoke
tiny and small flying creatures and objects
loose, lightweight materials
arrows, bolts, and ordinary projectiles.
most of the spells in question in this thread involve sending a projectile at the target, but none of them are "ordinary" projectiles. the only spells that are affected are because they produce something that is explicitly blocked (fog, gas, arrow).
Oddly enough, I think the only question in my mind would be the spell magic stone. is the stone "ordinary" if it has been enchanted? Its not an arrow or a bolt, so it is a projectile, the only question is whether it is still "ordinary"
Oddly enough, I think the only question in my mind would be the spell magic stone. is the stone "ordinary" if it has been enchanted? Its not an arrow or a bolt, so it is a projectile, the only question is whether it is still "ordinary"
There are several more grey areas, though. Look at Hail of Thorns:
"...this spell creates a rain of thorns that sprouts from your ranged weapon or ammunition. In addition to the normal effect of the attack, the target of the attack and each creature within 5 feet of it must make a DEX saving throw. A creature takes 1d10 piercing damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one."
The arrow/bolt/sling bullet is the ammunition. It appears to be one of the projectiles described in the spell. Is it magical? Yes and no. "Yes," because it is effected by the spell. But "No," because it is otherwise an ordinary arrow propelled at ordinary range and the extra damage it does is merely stated as piercing damage. It is not more accurate than any other arrow, and it has no particular riders or special damage types that clearly point out that it is now magical damage. Is the original arrow/bolt/bullet fired by the ranger going to get through Wind Wall?
Another iffy spell is Catapult:
"Choose one object weighing 1 to 5 pounds within range that isn’t being worn or carried. The object flies in a straight line up to 90 feet in a direction you choose before falling to the ground, stopping early if it impacts against a solid surface. If the object would strike a creature, that creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the object strikes the target and stops moving. When the object strikes something, the object and what it strikes each take 3d8 bludgeoning damage."
Here the object chosen is probably an ordinary one, most of the time. It does more damage than a typical 5 pound object hurled by a PC, but it remains an ordinary object. Will Catapult pierce the protection of Wind Wall?
Hail of Thorns requires the projectile of a standard Ranged Weapon Attack to hit to trigger, ergo Wind Wall blocks the trigger. Something like Catapult or Conjure Barrage is messier to parse, since mechanically they're save spells but theoretically they're utilizing normal nonmagical ammo.
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Not sure why Chromatic Orb is supposedly using muscular strength. It's still a spell attack and is explicitly described as a "sphere of energy", so there's no reason why a Firebolt should be good but it shouldn't.
"You hurl" is the relevant text I was referring to. "You" being the spellcaster. Just because the sphere itself is magical energy does not necessarily imply that the means of transport for that energy is magical itself. Contrast this with something like Lighting Bolt: "A stroke of lightning...blasts out from you in a direction you choose"; or Witch Bolt: "A beam of crackling blue energy lances out toward a creature within range..." where it's clear that magic is doing all the work of getting to the target.
And again we return to the part where Firebolt uses the exact same verbiage in the fluff part of the description. This is a fairly arbitrary hair you're trying to split, and really doesn't seem to line up with RAW or RAI of Wind Wall imo. Spells that prevent other spells from crossing them are usually very explicit about it, as a spells that interact with ranged attack rolls whose courses intersect with their AoE.
Well, I stand corrected on the point that Chromatic Sphere does use the same language as Firebolt. Nevertheless, I would still say that "you hurl" could easily imply that the caster is physically flinging something.at the target(s). As such, it's a grey area for the DM to adjudicate and allowing or disallowing the "you hurl" spells to get through Wind Wall would be quite justified.
The issue here isnt "how" it's being thrown, it's "what" is being thrown.
Based off of windwalls description (The strong wind keeps fog, smoke, and other gases at bay. Small or smaller flying creatures or objects can't pass through the wall. Loose, lightweight materials brought into the wall fly upward. Arrows, bolts, and other ordinary projectiles launched at targets behind the wall are deflected upward and automatically miss. (Boulders hurled by giants or siege engines, and similar projectiles, are unaffected.) Creatures in gaseous form can't pass through it.), we have to ask ourselves a couple things:
-is it an object
-is the object lightweight (i believe 5lb? its never explicitly stated, but a “light” crossbow is 5lb)
-is the *insert noun* affected by wind
Firebolt, you hurl a mote(a tiny piece of substance). what substance? at best, just fire, but fire is a plasma, and fire is definitely blocked by wind.
Chromatic orb, you hurl “energy” this is not "matter", so it's not blocked. Ive never heard of wind redirecting lightning.
Poison spray, you are spraying a gas/liquid, obvious, blocked.
Fireball, streak of light, not blocked... however, the AOE fire, would definitely be, the plasma (and the heat emanating from it) would all be blown upwards.
Acid Arrow, a shimmering green arrow, this is a good, debatable, one and as a DM, i would go with how the party feels about it.
A shimmering green arrow streaks toward a target within range and bursts in a spray of acid. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 4d4 acid damage immediately and 2d4 acid damage at the end of its next turn. On a miss, the arrow splashes the target with acid for half as much of the initial damage and no damage at the end of its next turn.
This sounds like an arrow made of magic, that, once it hits its target, it turns into acid (or, is filled with acid, either way, doesn’t matter, i would say its not effected, but i could see counterpoints.).
Levitate, i would say a creature or object affected by levitate does not have a weight, and would 100% be affected by windwall, to 100% of its affect. I would rule you moved 50ft in one round, and until levitate is over, you move that fast, in the same direction, basically falling upwards (tho whoever used levitate could fight it with 20ft/round of resistance, or add 20ft/round).
Magehand, "spectral" hand, not affected, can carry weight up to 10lb, that's more than windwall(but slower), i would say it can carry items through windwall, but, the object has to be over 5lb.
I would rule elementals cannot pass through windwall.
Also, an exception cannot be made for an objects velocity, because, with a longbow, you can shoot an arrow from 600ft, hitting in one round, which is 12x the velocity of the wind in windwall, but windwall explicitly states, no ordinary arrow.
CONCLUSION
As stated to begin with, its “what” is being thrown into the windwall, not “how” it is being thrown.
Spells only do what they say they do...and wind wall only blocks:
most of the spells in question in this thread involve sending a projectile at the target, but none of them are "ordinary" projectiles. the only spells that are affected are because they produce something that is explicitly blocked (fog, gas, arrow).
Oddly enough, I think the only question in my mind would be the spell magic stone. is the stone "ordinary" if it has been enchanted? Its not an arrow or a bolt, so it is a projectile, the only question is whether it is still "ordinary"
There are several more grey areas, though. Look at Hail of Thorns:
"...this spell creates a rain of thorns that sprouts from your ranged weapon or ammunition. In addition to the normal effect of the attack, the target of the attack and each creature within 5 feet of it must make a DEX saving throw. A creature takes 1d10 piercing damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one."
The arrow/bolt/sling bullet is the ammunition. It appears to be one of the projectiles described in the spell. Is it magical? Yes and no. "Yes," because it is effected by the spell. But "No," because it is otherwise an ordinary arrow propelled at ordinary range and the extra damage it does is merely stated as piercing damage. It is not more accurate than any other arrow, and it has no particular riders or special damage types that clearly point out that it is now magical damage. Is the original arrow/bolt/bullet fired by the ranger going to get through Wind Wall?
Another iffy spell is Catapult:
"Choose one object weighing 1 to 5 pounds within range that isn’t being worn or carried. The object flies in a straight line up to 90 feet in a direction you choose before falling to the ground, stopping early if it impacts against a solid surface. If the object would strike a creature, that creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the object strikes the target and stops moving. When the object strikes something, the object and what it strikes each take 3d8 bludgeoning damage."
Here the object chosen is probably an ordinary one, most of the time. It does more damage than a typical 5 pound object hurled by a PC, but it remains an ordinary object. Will Catapult pierce the protection of Wind Wall?
Hail of Thorns requires the projectile of a standard Ranged Weapon Attack to hit to trigger, ergo Wind Wall blocks the trigger. Something like Catapult or Conjure Barrage is messier to parse, since mechanically they're save spells but theoretically they're utilizing normal nonmagical ammo.