If it increased your Warlock level there would be no need to refer specifically to spell slots or cantrips. You would just get them by being a higher level Warlock.
What that feature is specifically doing is exactly the same thing as multiclassing with Spellcasting classes does - except in RAW there's no rule for multiclassing Pact Magic - so it had to be added for the Blood Hunter.
It is worded differently - and probably poorly - but then the Blood Hunter is homebrew.
I mean Emmber is exactly right. It sounds like you need to re-examine the multiclassing chapter. The Profane Soul works like an Eldritch Knight does with wizard.
Thanks, y'all. It definitely makes way more sense like this.
I am playing a charakter who is, for rpg reasons, multiclassing every class. So he will never get one increase.. thats just bad design for 5e... 3.5 worked fine, and alllowed multiclass to get also upgrades.. New Versions are not always the better ones :/
Does your character have the necessary ability scores to actually multiclass into every class? That would require each of your ability scores (except CON) to be above 13, which is frankly astounding.
Aside from that, multiclass characters have to be very carefully balanced against single-classed characters to avoid be strictly better due to having more features. I haven't played 3.5e, but from what I've heard it was pretty much unusual not to have a multiclassed character. In 5e, that's been toned way down for better balance. Not getting ASI's is the tradeoff for having a more diverse set of class features.
I think 5e multiclassing is (mostly) fine, but to each their own.
You need minimum 13 in every score (except CON) to multiclass in every class. I have a character right now who's doing that (just hit level 9): https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/82613810
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Does your character have the necessary ability scores to actually multiclass into every class? That would require each of your ability scores (except CON) to be above 13, which is frankly astounding.
Aside from that, multiclass characters have to be very carefully balanced against single-classed characters to avoid be strictly better due to having more features. I haven't played 3.5e, but from what I've heard it was pretty much unusual not to have a multiclassed character. In 5e, that's been toned way down for better balance. Not getting ASI's is the tradeoff for having a more diverse set of class features.
I think 5e multiclassing is (mostly) fine, but to each their own.
3.5e had lots of multiclassing as well as prestige classes, which could only be taken after reaching certain levels or meeting various prerequisites. Character customization was so thoroughly enabled that there isn't much point calling it multiclassing. There was so much content that it was essentially impossible to keep track of all of the possible mechanical interactions. Industrious individuals could break the game at low levels much faster than anyone could reasonably compensate for it.
I am playing a charakter who is, for rpg reasons, multiclassing every class. So he will never get one increase.. thats just bad design for 5e... 3.5 worked fine, and alllowed multiclass to get also upgrades.. New Versions are not always the better ones :/
There are only 13 official classes but levels go up to 20 officially. You only need to take one class further to level 4 and you get an ASI when you're at level 16 total. If its the fighter, you can get a 2nd ASI by taking it to level 6 (level 18 total) and a 3rd ASI at level 8 fighter (level 20 total with 8 levels of fighter and 1 level of every other official class).
These are only the official, written rules as well, so there's nothing stopping you from talking with your DM and asking if there are some other conditions you could meet to get ASI. Particularly if this is all part of role playing your character. They might simply give you an ASI point or two at certain total character levels or require you to forgo some other ability, such as a spell slot, racial or class ability in exchange. Even taking some disability such as a one, armed character.
The ASIs are given at 4th level to balance. Nearly every class gives some special abilities right away at 1st level that are often much better than any class progression level and exceed most feats. This means that most character builds that metagame for optimisation need to think carefully before multi-classing, particularly spell casters that can have their spell level progression stunted. But since you're just multi-classing for roleplay, these optimisations shouldn't impact you unless you're after a specific point increase or feat, in which case, again, you need to discuss with your game's DM and they might give it to your or trade.
The cost of gaining access to new abilities is the loss of some other abilities you would have gained for not multiclassing. This is called balance, and it is a good thing that you must give things up to get other things.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I am playing a charakter who is, for rpg reasons, multiclassing every class. So he will never get one increase.. thats just bad design for 5e... 3.5 worked fine, and alllowed multiclass to get also upgrades.. New Versions are not always the better ones :/
If your character already has a 13+ in every skill, they hardly need the ASIs.
I am playing a charakter who is, for rpg reasons, multiclassing every class. So he will never get one increase.. thats just bad design for 5e... 3.5 worked fine, and alllowed multiclass to get also upgrades.. New Versions are not always the better ones :/
If your character already has a 13+ in every skill, they hardly need the ASIs.
You can do it with point buy. If your highest stat is 14 then ASIs come in very useful but if you are level 12 and don't have more than one level in any class it is the least of your optimisation problems.
I consider ASIs as a class feature that just happens to be the same for all classes. If ASIs were awarded at character level you would need ot have other class features at level 4,8,12,16 and 19 that people would miss out on if they multiclassed.
Should a Fighter (3) / Barb (2) get extra attack because it is a 5th level feature and they are a5th level? What about a fighter (3) / rogue (2)?
If you MC (in a sensible way with 2 or 3 classes) you don't have to missout out on ASIs, a Warlock (4) / Sorcerer (4) gets the same ASI as an 8th level single class and is a viable option but Warlock (3) Sorcerer (5) (or 2/6) is probably a little more popular as people value the higher level spells over the ASI (and pact boon if going 6/2)
I am a bit nostalgic for 1st and 2nd edition AD&D.
I'm thinking that I want to eliminate ASI and new feats, unless the character can explain EXACTLY how he attain them.
In other words, a "Wish" spell, a powerful magical artifact, Divine gift, magical elixir, etc...
However, since 5th edition give 2 pts. of ASI or a new feat for every 4 new character levels, I am considering allowing a character to do ASI or get a new
feat IF they spend the XP earned to advance 2 levels to raise one ability score by 1 pt., or spend the XP earned to advance 4 levels to to raise ability scores by 2 pts.
The game is designed for ASI/Feat increases. You can do whatever you want at your table, but it's most likely just going to disappoint your players if you take away their class abilities just because.
Also, a lot of tables use Milestone leveling, so spending XP wouldn't be a thing.
The game is designed for ASI/Feat increases. You can do whatever you want at your table, but it's most likely just going to disappoint your players if you take away their class abilities just because.
Also, a lot of tables use Milestone leveling, so spending XP wouldn't be a thing.
Feats are an optional rule and the game is not designed with the expectation that you'll have them.
Most tables play with this optional rule, but not all do. And to be sure, it is optional.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Yes, feats are optional, but the ASI is not (my reference was to them collectively). If the suggestion here is to allow players to take ASI or pay for a feat, then that is just a compromise for the optional bit. If the suggestion is to pay for the ASI or pay for a feat, then that's removing a default class feature.
Strictly speaking ASIs are optional. Go with milestone levelling and have the campaign end before the third milestone.
Going from level 1 to level 2 characters get their hit point more than doubled along with powerful class features like channel Divinity or action Surge. I did not play 1e or 2e I do not seethe difference with ASIs. You could play that every level up requires going to a city and spending weeks or months in training, each level being a way of earning enough money for their next level of training, this way PCs take years rather than weeks to go from little more than commoners to heroes of the realm which might be more realistic.
I came looking to see if any others allowed some different house rules on this. ASI and Feats should be divorced from class level to a degree and instead tied to overall level. When as a DM I've explicitly made that rule, even in a oneshot, most tend to stick with one class; granted small sample size. I agree with you here.
I came looking to see if any others allowed some different house rules on this. ASI and Feats should be divorced from class level to a degree and instead tied to overall level. When as a DM I've explicitly made that rule, even in a oneshot, most tend to stick with one class; granted small sample size. I agree with you here.
I disagree that ASI and Feats should be divorced from class level and instead tied to overall level. If there were you would need to add class features at 4th / 8th / 12th / 16th and 19th level. As I mentioned previously I see ASIs / Feats are class features which happen to be (nearly) the same options for all classes. In reality your class defines which options you are likely to consider, a level 4 wizard is unmlikey to take +2 strength or great weapon master while the level 4 fighter is unlikely to take +2 charisma and unless an eldritch knight can not take metamagic adept.
Players are different, some base characters on a concept and that could well be a single class. Others want to built powerful characters and they would nearly always go multiclass to avoid the "dead" levels. This is particularly marked for one shots at an ASI level.
Say you are playing a level 4 one shot. A level 4 sorcerer gets nothing that a level 3 sorcerer level 1 warlock gets but by multiclassing they can get light armor proficiency along with proficiency in a skill and a musical instrument. They also get Bardic inspiration two bard cantrips, 4 bard spells and an extra HP. The same applies will any other class.
Disagree as well. ASI/Feats are a class ability you can choose. They are generally part of a class' levels where the class gets no additional abilities other than the ASI/Feat.
Tying them to overall level means you get multi-class characters that will likely benefit from a class ability and an ASI/Feat in the same level up.
Many of the best and most desirable class abilities appear in the first 3 levels of a class as well, with ASI encouraging a further level in the class to gain. There are many optimised builds out there that involve taking 1-3 levels or 1 or more classes because of how many of the best abilities can be found in those levels.
That said, if a player is building a multiclass character for roleplaying purposes as opposed to optimised combat/capability but are struggling to be relevant or effective in gameplay due to a good roleplay build, it could be worth granting a particular stat increase or feat with a DM call to help them play effectively to their style.
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Thanks, y'all. It definitely makes way more sense like this.
I am playing a charakter who is, for rpg reasons, multiclassing every class. So he will never get one increase.. thats just bad design for 5e... 3.5 worked fine, and alllowed multiclass to get also upgrades.. New Versions are not always the better ones :/
Does your character have the necessary ability scores to actually multiclass into every class? That would require each of your ability scores (except CON) to be above 13, which is frankly astounding.
Aside from that, multiclass characters have to be very carefully balanced against single-classed characters to avoid be strictly better due to having more features. I haven't played 3.5e, but from what I've heard it was pretty much unusual not to have a multiclassed character. In 5e, that's been toned way down for better balance. Not getting ASI's is the tradeoff for having a more diverse set of class features.
I think 5e multiclassing is (mostly) fine, but to each their own.
You need minimum 13 in every score (except CON) to multiclass in every class. I have a character right now who's doing that (just hit level 9): https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/82613810
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
3.5e had lots of multiclassing as well as prestige classes, which could only be taken after reaching certain levels or meeting various prerequisites. Character customization was so thoroughly enabled that there isn't much point calling it multiclassing. There was so much content that it was essentially impossible to keep track of all of the possible mechanical interactions. Industrious individuals could break the game at low levels much faster than anyone could reasonably compensate for it.
There are only 13 official classes but levels go up to 20 officially. You only need to take one class further to level 4 and you get an ASI when you're at level 16 total. If its the fighter, you can get a 2nd ASI by taking it to level 6 (level 18 total) and a 3rd ASI at level 8 fighter (level 20 total with 8 levels of fighter and 1 level of every other official class).
These are only the official, written rules as well, so there's nothing stopping you from talking with your DM and asking if there are some other conditions you could meet to get ASI. Particularly if this is all part of role playing your character. They might simply give you an ASI point or two at certain total character levels or require you to forgo some other ability, such as a spell slot, racial or class ability in exchange. Even taking some disability such as a one, armed character.
The ASIs are given at 4th level to balance. Nearly every class gives some special abilities right away at 1st level that are often much better than any class progression level and exceed most feats. This means that most character builds that metagame for optimisation need to think carefully before multi-classing, particularly spell casters that can have their spell level progression stunted. But since you're just multi-classing for roleplay, these optimisations shouldn't impact you unless you're after a specific point increase or feat, in which case, again, you need to discuss with your game's DM and they might give it to your or trade.
The cost of gaining access to new abilities is the loss of some other abilities you would have gained for not multiclassing. This is called balance, and it is a good thing that you must give things up to get other things.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
If your character already has a 13+ in every skill, they hardly need the ASIs.
You can do it with point buy. If your highest stat is 14 then ASIs come in very useful but if you are level 12 and don't have more than one level in any class it is the least of your optimisation problems.
I consider ASIs as a class feature that just happens to be the same for all classes. If ASIs were awarded at character level you would need ot have other class features at level 4,8,12,16 and 19 that people would miss out on if they multiclassed.
Should a Fighter (3) / Barb (2) get extra attack because it is a 5th level feature and they are a5th level? What about a fighter (3) / rogue (2)?
If you MC (in a sensible way with 2 or 3 classes) you don't have to missout out on ASIs, a Warlock (4) / Sorcerer (4) gets the same ASI as an 8th level single class and is a viable option but Warlock (3) Sorcerer (5) (or 2/6) is probably a little more popular as people value the higher level spells over the ASI (and pact boon if going 6/2)
Hi.
I am a bit nostalgic for 1st and 2nd edition AD&D.
I'm thinking that I want to eliminate ASI and new feats, unless the character can explain EXACTLY how he attain them.
In other words, a "Wish" spell, a powerful magical artifact, Divine gift, magical elixir, etc...
However, since 5th edition give 2 pts. of ASI or a new feat for every 4 new character levels, I am considering allowing a character to do ASI or get a new
feat IF they spend the XP earned to advance 2 levels to raise one ability score by 1 pt., or spend the XP earned to advance 4 levels to to raise ability scores by 2 pts.
or to buy a new feat.
These guys are saying almost the same thing about feats as I am. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dyEkUiH2nc&t=8s
Your opinion?????
The game is designed for ASI/Feat increases. You can do whatever you want at your table, but it's most likely just going to disappoint your players if you take away their class abilities just because.
Also, a lot of tables use Milestone leveling, so spending XP wouldn't be a thing.
Feats are an optional rule and the game is not designed with the expectation that you'll have them.
Most tables play with this optional rule, but not all do. And to be sure, it is optional.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Yes, feats are optional, but the ASI is not (my reference was to them collectively). If the suggestion here is to allow players to take ASI or pay for a feat, then that is just a compromise for the optional bit. If the suggestion is to pay for the ASI or pay for a feat, then that's removing a default class feature.
Strictly speaking ASIs are optional. Go with milestone levelling and have the campaign end before the third milestone.
Going from level 1 to level 2 characters get their hit point more than doubled along with powerful class features like channel Divinity or action Surge. I did not play 1e or 2e I do not seethe difference with ASIs. You could play that every level up requires going to a city and spending weeks or months in training, each level being a way of earning enough money for their next level of training, this way PCs take years rather than weeks to go from little more than commoners to heroes of the realm which might be more realistic.
I came looking to see if any others allowed some different house rules on this. ASI and Feats should be divorced from class level to a degree and instead tied to overall level. When as a DM I've explicitly made that rule, even in a oneshot, most tend to stick with one class; granted small sample size. I agree with you here.
I disagree that ASI and Feats should be divorced from class level and instead tied to overall level. If there were you would need to add class features at 4th / 8th / 12th / 16th and 19th level. As I mentioned previously I see ASIs / Feats are class features which happen to be (nearly) the same options for all classes. In reality your class defines which options you are likely to consider, a level 4 wizard is unmlikey to take +2 strength or great weapon master while the level 4 fighter is unlikely to take +2 charisma and unless an eldritch knight can not take metamagic adept.
Players are different, some base characters on a concept and that could well be a single class. Others want to built powerful characters and they would nearly always go multiclass to avoid the "dead" levels. This is particularly marked for one shots at an ASI level.
Say you are playing a level 4 one shot. A level 4 sorcerer gets nothing that a level 3 sorcerer level 1 warlock gets but by multiclassing they can get light armor proficiency along with proficiency in a skill and a musical instrument. They also get Bardic inspiration two bard cantrips, 4 bard spells and an extra HP. The same applies will any other class.
Disagree as well. ASI/Feats are a class ability you can choose. They are generally part of a class' levels where the class gets no additional abilities other than the ASI/Feat.
Tying them to overall level means you get multi-class characters that will likely benefit from a class ability and an ASI/Feat in the same level up.
Many of the best and most desirable class abilities appear in the first 3 levels of a class as well, with ASI encouraging a further level in the class to gain. There are many optimised builds out there that involve taking 1-3 levels or 1 or more classes because of how many of the best abilities can be found in those levels.
That said, if a player is building a multiclass character for roleplaying purposes as opposed to optimised combat/capability but are struggling to be relevant or effective in gameplay due to a good roleplay build, it could be worth granting a particular stat increase or feat with a DM call to help them play effectively to their style.