the first thing everyone should of said was that streamers have their own homebrew rulings.
critical role campaign one had a homebrew rules where if you cast aspell, the second one could be second level or lower only. thats homebrew and not official rulings.
basically, don't watch streamers and learn from them, they have their own set of rules.
i fell like its the first thing people should of said to the OP.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
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the first thing everyone should of said was that streamers have their own homebrew rulings.
critical role campaign one had a homebrew rules where if you cast aspell, the second one could be second level or lower only. thats homebrew and not official rulings.
basically, don't watch streamers and learn from them, they have their own set of rules.
i fell like its the first thing people should of said to the OP.
I have to second this, especially here in Rules. Any time someone makes a remark or has a question about what they may have seen on a stream, it would likely be helpful for someone to point out immediately that MOST streamers (hell, most who PLAY D&D) use Homebrewed rules at times. In MANY cases, these homebrewed rules generate a question here, about "Can I do X if I have already done Y in a round? By pointing out it is likely a homebrew ruling they saw being applied, it allows a clearer understanding of when the actual RaW is quoted or explained.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
I have a slight variation to the original question:
I play a 5th level cleric and in intense combat with multiple enemies will cast Spirit Guardians which is a Concentration spell with a duration of 10 minutes. In the next round I will cast Spiritual Weapon as a bonus action (duration 1 minute) and attack with that, as well as make a melee attack with my warhammer as my action. So unless my concentration is broken I can cause damage to an enemy with 3 attacks: the Spirit Guardians, the Spiritual Weapon and the melee attack.
I've re-read the PHB rules several times and think that this is legit, but would welcome your views. The logic is as follows: the concentration spell is maintained unless I take damage or cast another spell that requires concentration (Spiritual Weapon doesn't) so I'm free to use my bonus action in the following round to to cast Spiritual Weapon and also have my action available for the melee attack. Do you agree?
I have a slight variation to the original question:
I play a 5th level cleric and in intense combat with multiple enemies will cast Spirit Guardians which is a Concentration spell with a duration of 10 minutes. In the next round I will cast Spiritual Weapon as a bonus action (duration 1 minute) and attack with that, as well as make a melee attack with my warhammer as my action. So unless my concentration is broken I can cause damage to an enemy with 3 attacks: the Spirit Guardians, the Spiritual Weapon and the melee attack.
I've re-read the PHB rules several times and think that this is legit, but would welcome your views. The logic is as follows: the concentration spell is maintained unless I take damage or cast another spell that requires concentration (Spiritual Weapon doesn't) so I'm free to use my bonus action in the following round to to cast Spiritual Weapon and also have my action available for the melee attack. Do you agree?
Spirit guardians isn't an "attack" but other than that, you're right.
Technically it is possible to cast a total of 8 spells in a single round (not turn). This requires an extensive use of multiple abilities, and a rather pointless build.
The build is:
17 levels of Rogue (Thief), to Thieves Reflexes to get two turns in a single round.
2 levels of Fighter to get Action Surge
1 level of Druid to get both 2 spell slots, Absorb Elements, and most importantly, Bonus Action Cantrips.
A race that innately grants you 2 spells, one of which is a reaction. Tiefling works as it grants you both Hellish Rebuke reaction spell and Darkness, a 2nd level spell.
This combination knows 2 first level spell slots plus 2 other spells from race, one of which is a reaction. This gives you 4 levelled spells, the rest must be cantrips. Effectively you can cast 3 reaction spells, 1 normal spell plus unlimited cantrips. Note taking druid gets you the Bonus Action Cantrips, specifically Shillelagh or Magic Stone. Neither of those are actually USEFUL, but you can actually use them as follows:
You start out taking a reaction before your turn, through which you cast a reaction spell (either your 1 Hellish Rebuke, or one of your 2 slotted Absorb Elements). [1]
On you normal turn, your reaction resets, you use your action and bonus action to cast 2 cantrips [2][3]
You take an action surge, to cast another leveled spell, specifically Darkness as you are saving your spell slots for reactions. [4]
You use another reaction and cast either Absorb Elements or Hellish Rebuke. [5]
You take your second turn in the same round, resetting your reaction and then using your Action and Reaction both cantrips. [6][7]
You take your last reaction and cast a spell, either your last Absorb Elements or Hellish Rebuke [8]
Net result, 4 bonus action druid cantrips (probably 2 thorn whips/Primal Savagery and 2 Magic Stone, so you are holding 6 unused stones) and 4 leveled spells: Darkness from Tiefling, 1 Hellish Rebuke from Tiefling, and 2 Absorb Elements from Druid.
------
Silliness about this build: You are 20th level Rogue with a few levels in other things, but are wasting two Bonus Actions casting Magic Stone/Shillelagh. Everything else is not that weird as you can use Sneak Attack with Thorn Whip or Primal Savagery.
Oh, and of course, one can also be a Wizard that casts Time Stop for 1d4+1 rounds, as long as all the spells you cast only affect you.
Oh, and of course, one can also be a Wizard that casts Time Stop for 1d4+1 rounds, as long as all the spells you cast only affect you.
It's unclear from the text of the spell how that works for delayed effects -- does delayed blast fireball or maddening darkness end Time Stop? Neither one actually affects other creatures during the period time is stopped.
action surge is nothing.... its an ability that one fighter decides to use... action surge is not an action or a bonus action. its nothing.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
In my campaigns a slight modification that is allowed has been to allow a bonus action cantrip and a leveled spell. So like magic stone and cure wounds, or a sorcerer casting a leveled spell then deciding to quicken a cantrip.
Oh, and of course, one can also be a Wizard that casts Time Stop for 1d4+1 rounds, as long as all the spells you cast only affect you.
It's unclear from the text of the spell how that works for delayed effects -- does delayed blast fireball or maddening darkness end Time Stop? Neither one actually affects other creatures during the period time is stopped.
From my reading, I would say that neither spell ends Time Stop. It looks to me like the rules use "effects" rather specifically to mean in the way a spell or ability is targeted. I would apply the logic of "Targets" and "Areas of Effect" from PHB 204 and rule that effects are targeted upon a point or a creature. This is somewhat over simplistic, so I'd say anything that requires an attack roll, causes another creature to make a saving throw, does damage (hp or ability) to another creature, or imposes a condition upon another creature, is an effect that ends Time Stop when it happens.
So Maddening Darkness and other effects that force a creature to make a saving throw on its turn don't end Time Stop until the creature in question actually has to make the saving throw which doesn't happen until they start taking turns. Delayed Blast doesn't create an effect that affects other creatures until those other creatures have to make a saving throw.
All this IMO of course, but the question interests me, so I'd like to hear what others have to say about it as well.
Oh, and of course, one can also be a Wizard that casts Time Stop for 1d4+1 rounds, as long as all the spells you cast only affect you.
It's unclear from the text of the spell how that works for delayed effects -- does delayed blast fireball or maddening darkness end Time Stop? Neither one actually affects other creatures during the period time is stopped.
From my reading, I would say that neither spell ends Time Stop. It looks to me like the rules use "effects" rather specifically to mean in the way a spell or ability is targeted. I would apply the logic of "Targets" and "Areas of Effect" from PHB 204 and rule that effects are targeted upon a point or a creature. This is somewhat over simplistic, so I'd say anything that requires an attack roll, causes another creature to make a saving throw, does damage (hp or ability) to another creature, or imposes a condition upon another creature, is an effect that ends Time Stop when it happens.
So Maddening Darkness and other effects that force a creature to make a saving throw on its turn don't end Time Stop until the creature in question actually has to make the saving throw which doesn't happen until they start taking turns. Delayed Blast doesn't create an effect that affects other creatures until those other creatures have to make a saving throw.
All this IMO of course, but the question interests me, so I'd like to hear what others have to say about it as well.
the RAW answer is simpler then that... both are fine as long as as they dont interact with anything. basically you can cst delayed fireball and have it grow. as long as it is not interacting with anything for the time being. but if it explodes, the spell ends. the spell is pretty clear about the interaction with others or things around.
You briefly stop the flow of time for everyone but yourself. No time passes for other creatures, while you take 1d4 + 1 turns in a row, during which you can use actions and move as normal.
This spell ends if one of the actions you use during this period, or any effects that you create during this period, affects a creature other than you or an object being worn or carried by someone other than you. In addition, the spell ends if you move to a place more than 1,000 feet from the location where you cast it.
basically as long as it doesn't affect others then you by any actions you do... its fine. so delayed i would let go as long as it isn't exploding yet. maddening darkness actually affects the target other thin you, thus the spell would end. so yeah as long as it doesn't affect the others on the battlefield, i would be fine with letting it happen.
also as mentionned, the spell is pretty clear that any effects you created cant affect others if you want the spell not to end. thus an effect is what happens
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
basically as long as it doesn't affect others then you by any actions you do... its fine. so delayed i would let go as long as it isn't exploding yet. maddening darkness actually affects the target other thin you, thus the spell would end.
Maddening darkness only affects targets on their turn, and they aren't getting any turns during the time stop.
If people would directly cite official sources (book and page/section), instead of paraphrasing and making stuff up (even if it is a nice clear schematic), situations like this would be so much easier to parse.
Short version: Paragraph 1: Most spells have a time of "1 action" and use a player's action to cast. Paragraph 2: If a spell is cast as a bonus action, a cantrip that has a time of "1 action" can also be cast. Paragraph 3: Reactions are separate and dependent on the spell description.
There appears to be no official rule limiting the number of spells per round or turn (please cite your source if there is - I want to know). If you have more than one action, the first paragraph does not restrict you from casting multiple spells with "1 Action" casting times. Paragraph 2 does not explicitly state that if a cantrip is cast as a bonus action, a spell with a time of "1 action" could be cast, but it doesn't say you can't either. Reactions have their restriction of only 1 per round, whether they involve spells or other features/traits. https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#Reactions
Short version: Paragraph 1: Most spells have a time of "1 action" and use a player's action to cast. Paragraph 2: If a spell is cast as a bonus action, a cantrip that has a time of "1 action" can also be cast. Paragraph 3: Reactions are separate and dependent on the spell description.
There appears to be no official rule limiting the number of spells per round or turn (please cite your source if there is - I want to know). If you have more than one action, the first paragraph does not restrict you from casting multiple spells with "1 Action" casting times. Paragraph 2 does not explicitly state that if a cantrip is cast as a bonus action, a spell with a time of "1 action" could be cast, but it doesn't say you can't either. Reactions have their restriction of only 1 per round, whether they involve spells or other features/traits. https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#Reactions
Other relevant rule to quote would be the Sage-Advice-Compendium in which it notes the restriction that a spell cast with a bonus action prevents you casting another spell before or after it "On the turn you cast it" unless that spell is a cantrip. - https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#CastingTime
It also notes that casting two or more spells with the fighter's "Action surge" does NOT limit you to cantrips for one of them (Unless, of course, you've cast with a bonus action that turn, in which case both your action and the action surge spell would need to be cantrips, as per the bonus action spell rule).
Now, it's important to note the use of the word "turn" rather than "round". This means that you CAN cast a levelled spell in the same ROUND as a reaction provided you're not using the reaction on your "turn" (such as feather fall if you move on to a pit trap after casting a bonus action spell). This was verified in a tweet by Jeremy Crawford. - "Casting a bonus action spell limits your spellcasting options on your turn - no effect on an off-turn reaction"
Some people might recall that when you use the "Ready" action that it's taking up your reaction. But Jeremy has tweeted that if you cast a bonus action spell then you can only use the Ready action to prepare a 1-action cantrip. If I was to imagine this within the main rules as opposed to Jeremy's tweet, I guess you'd note that you're readying the specific spell on your turn. - "If you cast a bonus action spell, the only type of spell yu can ready that turn is a 1-action cantrip" - "With Ready, you begin casting the spell on your turn, not when you use the reaction later"
One last note: A bonus action spell restricts you to cantrips for other spells from your action but you can still use your full action for anything else, including dash, disengage, dodge or a regular melee/ranged attack. This is where the sorcerer's quickened spell ability to turn the spell into a bonus action is still especially useful. Smash out a touch spell then disengage and run away or take the dodge to reduce hit chance.
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the first thing everyone should of said was that streamers have their own homebrew rulings.
critical role campaign one had a homebrew rules where if you cast aspell, the second one could be second level or lower only. thats homebrew and not official rulings.
basically, don't watch streamers and learn from them, they have their own set of rules.
i fell like its the first thing people should of said to the OP.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I have to second this, especially here in Rules. Any time someone makes a remark or has a question about what they may have seen on a stream, it would likely be helpful for someone to point out immediately that MOST streamers (hell, most who PLAY D&D) use Homebrewed rules at times. In MANY cases, these homebrewed rules generate a question here, about "Can I do X if I have already done Y in a round? By pointing out it is likely a homebrew ruling they saw being applied, it allows a clearer understanding of when the actual RaW is quoted or explained.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
I have a slight variation to the original question:
I play a 5th level cleric and in intense combat with multiple enemies will cast Spirit Guardians which is a Concentration spell with a duration of 10 minutes. In the next round I will cast Spiritual Weapon as a bonus action (duration 1 minute) and attack with that, as well as make a melee attack with my warhammer as my action. So unless my concentration is broken I can cause damage to an enemy with 3 attacks: the Spirit Guardians, the Spiritual Weapon and the melee attack.
I've re-read the PHB rules several times and think that this is legit, but would welcome your views. The logic is as follows: the concentration spell is maintained unless I take damage or cast another spell that requires concentration (Spiritual Weapon doesn't) so I'm free to use my bonus action in the following round to to cast Spiritual Weapon and also have my action available for the melee attack. Do you agree?
Spirit guardians isn't an "attack" but other than that, you're right.
Technically it is possible to cast a total of 8 spells in a single round (not turn). This requires an extensive use of multiple abilities, and a rather pointless build.
The build is:
This combination knows 2 first level spell slots plus 2 other spells from race, one of which is a reaction. This gives you 4 levelled spells, the rest must be cantrips. Effectively you can cast 3 reaction spells, 1 normal spell plus unlimited cantrips. Note taking druid gets you the Bonus Action Cantrips, specifically Shillelagh or Magic Stone. Neither of those are actually USEFUL, but you can actually use them as follows:
You start out taking a reaction before your turn, through which you cast a reaction spell (either your 1 Hellish Rebuke, or one of your 2 slotted Absorb Elements). [1]
On you normal turn, your reaction resets, you use your action and bonus action to cast 2 cantrips [2][3]
You take an action surge, to cast another leveled spell, specifically Darkness as you are saving your spell slots for reactions. [4]
You use another reaction and cast either Absorb Elements or Hellish Rebuke. [5]
You take your second turn in the same round, resetting your reaction and then using your Action and Reaction both cantrips. [6][7]
You take your last reaction and cast a spell, either your last Absorb Elements or Hellish Rebuke [8]
Net result, 4 bonus action druid cantrips (probably 2 thorn whips/Primal Savagery and 2 Magic Stone, so you are holding 6 unused stones) and 4 leveled spells: Darkness from Tiefling, 1 Hellish Rebuke from Tiefling, and 2 Absorb Elements from Druid.
------
Silliness about this build: You are 20th level Rogue with a few levels in other things, but are wasting two Bonus Actions casting Magic Stone/Shillelagh. Everything else is not that weird as you can use Sneak Attack with Thorn Whip or Primal Savagery.
Oh, and of course, one can also be a Wizard that casts Time Stop for 1d4+1 rounds, as long as all the spells you cast only affect you.
It's unclear from the text of the spell how that works for delayed effects -- does delayed blast fireball or maddening darkness end Time Stop? Neither one actually affects other creatures during the period time is stopped.
I believe that even action surge is subject to the bonus action casting rule on your turn.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
It does. Action surge is an action is an action.
Casting a spell as a bonus action limits what spells can be cast as an action (all your actions).
I think the theory still works, though, if you just replace the leveled spell with a cantrip with a casting time of an action.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
action surge is nothing.... its an ability that one fighter decides to use... action surge is not an action or a bonus action. its nothing.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Yes, but the action it grants is a normal action.
But the action action surge grants is an action.
In my campaigns a slight modification that is allowed has been to allow a bonus action cantrip and a leveled spell. So like magic stone and cure wounds, or a sorcerer casting a leveled spell then deciding to quicken a cantrip.
Thank you for your reply :)
From my reading, I would say that neither spell ends Time Stop. It looks to me like the rules use "effects" rather specifically to mean in the way a spell or ability is targeted. I would apply the logic of "Targets" and "Areas of Effect" from PHB 204 and rule that effects are targeted upon a point or a creature. This is somewhat over simplistic, so I'd say anything that requires an attack roll, causes another creature to make a saving throw, does damage (hp or ability) to another creature, or imposes a condition upon another creature, is an effect that ends Time Stop when it happens.
So Maddening Darkness and other effects that force a creature to make a saving throw on its turn don't end Time Stop until the creature in question actually has to make the saving throw which doesn't happen until they start taking turns. Delayed Blast doesn't create an effect that affects other creatures until those other creatures have to make a saving throw.
All this IMO of course, but the question interests me, so I'd like to hear what others have to say about it as well.
the RAW answer is simpler then that... both are fine as long as as they dont interact with anything. basically you can cst delayed fireball and have it grow. as long as it is not interacting with anything for the time being. but if it explodes, the spell ends. the spell is pretty clear about the interaction with others or things around.
basically as long as it doesn't affect others then you by any actions you do... its fine. so delayed i would let go as long as it isn't exploding yet. maddening darkness actually affects the target other thin you, thus the spell would end. so yeah as long as it doesn't affect the others on the battlefield, i would be fine with letting it happen.
also as mentionned, the spell is pretty clear that any effects you created cant affect others if you want the spell not to end. thus an effect is what happens
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Maddening darkness only affects targets on their turn, and they aren't getting any turns during the time stop.
If people would directly cite official sources (book and page/section), instead of paraphrasing and making stuff up (even if it is a nice clear schematic), situations like this would be so much easier to parse.
Official Rules:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#CastingaSpell
(Thank you to Chicken_Champ for at least quoting an official rule, which finally led me to the official source.)
Short version:
Paragraph 1: Most spells have a time of "1 action" and use a player's action to cast.
Paragraph 2: If a spell is cast as a bonus action, a cantrip that has a time of "1 action" can also be cast.
Paragraph 3: Reactions are separate and dependent on the spell description.
There appears to be no official rule limiting the number of spells per round or turn (please cite your source if there is - I want to know). If you have more than one action, the first paragraph does not restrict you from casting multiple spells with "1 Action" casting times.
Paragraph 2 does not explicitly state that if a cantrip is cast as a bonus action, a spell with a time of "1 action" could be cast, but it doesn't say you can't either.
Reactions have their restriction of only 1 per round, whether they involve spells or other features/traits. https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#Reactions
Other relevant rule to quote would be the Sage-Advice-Compendium in which it notes the restriction that a spell cast with a bonus action prevents you casting another spell before or after it "On the turn you cast it" unless that spell is a cantrip.
- https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#CastingTime
It also notes that casting two or more spells with the fighter's "Action surge" does NOT limit you to cantrips for one of them (Unless, of course, you've cast with a bonus action that turn, in which case both your action and the action surge spell would need to be cantrips, as per the bonus action spell rule).
Now, it's important to note the use of the word "turn" rather than "round". This means that you CAN cast a levelled spell in the same ROUND as a reaction provided you're not using the reaction on your "turn" (such as feather fall if you move on to a pit trap after casting a bonus action spell). This was verified in a tweet by Jeremy Crawford.
- "Casting a bonus action spell limits your spellcasting options on your turn - no effect on an off-turn reaction"
Some people might recall that when you use the "Ready" action that it's taking up your reaction. But Jeremy has tweeted that if you cast a bonus action spell then you can only use the Ready action to prepare a 1-action cantrip. If I was to imagine this within the main rules as opposed to Jeremy's tweet, I guess you'd note that you're readying the specific spell on your turn.
- "If you cast a bonus action spell, the only type of spell yu can ready that turn is a 1-action cantrip"
- "With Ready, you begin casting the spell on your turn, not when you use the reaction later"
One last note: A bonus action spell restricts you to cantrips for other spells from your action but you can still use your full action for anything else, including dash, disengage, dodge or a regular melee/ranged attack. This is where the sorcerer's quickened spell ability to turn the spell into a bonus action is still especially useful. Smash out a touch spell then disengage and run away or take the dodge to reduce hit chance.