Just need a simple answer cause the DMG answer is confuzzling.
I have a tier 3 rogue, whos just a simple thief. She has a pocket full of gold and wants to cause a bit of havoc. In her downtime can she purchase and use a spell scroll even though she has no spell casting abilities??
No, because honestly scrolls are one of the worst items. I don't think it's much of an opinion either, but the spell has to be in your spell list, you have to be a caster, and you can fail the cast if its to high a level. It's really only good if you're a wizard or warlock, warlock has more use because of the free slot, but they probably won't get one they can use because of their smaller spell list. They can at least copy spells they don't know into their spell known spells as a wizard or book of ancient secrets warlock (if it's a ritual spell).
Even the rule designer doesn't know if the thief ability (at least I think it was thief) that lets you use items regardless of requirements would work with scrolls. Plus the ability is high level.
In the Players Handbook, page 97 a Rouge with the Thief Archetype gains an ability at level 13 Called Use Magic Device. Which says
Use Magic Device
By 13th level, you have learned enough about the workings of magic that you can improvise the use of items even when they are not intended for you. You ignore all class, race, and level requirements on the use of magic items.
So according to that, wouldn't that allow my Rogue/Thief to successfully use a spell scroll?
People asked Jeremy Crawford this a few times. He gave different, completely opposing answers.
One was him saying it works, why wouldn't it. The other was him saying it flat out doesn't. I think his words aren't set in stone like people say, because he contradicts himself with things. Either way, your DM can make the ruling that it works, because it honestly should.
In the Players Handbook, page 97 a Rouge with the Thief Archetype gains an ability at level 13 Called Use Magic Device. Which says
Use Magic Device
By 13th level, you have learned enough about the workings of magic that you can improvise the use of items even when they are not intended for you. You ignore all class, race, and level requirements on the use of magic items.
So according to that, wouldn't that allow my Rogue/Thief to successfully use a spell scroll?
Spell scrolls don't require a specific class, they require your class to have a specific spell.
For comparison, the artificer's level 14 ability magic item savant ignores all class, race, spell, and level requirements.
”Unless a scroll's description says otherwise, any creature that can understand a written language can read the script on a scroll and attempt to activate it.“
Am I reading the DMG incorrectly? I’m not seeing anything that says they are restricted to only spellcasters with that specific spell on their lists.
”Unless a scroll's description says otherwise, any creature that can understand a written language can read the script on a scroll and attempt to activate it.“
Am I reading the DMG incorrectly? I’m not seeing anything that says they are restricted to only spellcasters with that specific spell on their lists.
You didn't see the second and third sentences of spell scroll?
If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible.
So DxJxC, how do you reconcile those two things? Any creature can attempt to activate the scroll but if you don't have the spell on your list you automatically fail (mishap)?
So DxJxC, how do you reconcile those two things? Any creature can attempt to activate the scroll but if you don't have the spell on your list you automatically fail (mishap)?
Oooooohhh I know the answer to this one: everyone's wrong, scrolls are terrible, and there's nothing to reconcile because there are actually two types of scrolls in the rules (this is where most people get confused).
Most scrolls are spells stored in written form, while a few bear unique incantations that produce potent wards. Whatever its contents, a scroll is a roll of paper, sometimes attached to wooden rods, and typically kept safe in a tube of ivory, jade, leather, metal, or wood.
A scroll is a consumable magic item. Whatever the nature of the magic contained in a scroll, unleashing that magic requires the user to read the scroll. When its magic has been invoked, the scroll can’t be used again. Its words fade, or it crumbles into dust.
Unless a scroll's description says otherwise, any creature that can understand a written language can read the script on a scroll and attempt to activate it.
A Spell Scroll is a specific type of scroll that has its own set of rules, and this is the one that we actually care about knowing exactly how it works:
Spell Scroll
A spell scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time. Once the spell is cast, the words on the scroll fade, and it crumbles to dust. If the casting is interrupted, the scroll is not lost.
If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.
The level of the spell on the scroll determines the spell’s saving throw DC and attack bonus, as well as the scroll’s rarity, as shown in the Spell Scroll table.
The overall design flaw here is that 99/100 times we want to use a scroll, it's a Spell Scroll, and AFAIK there is only one "scroll" that isn't a Spell Scroll... the Scroll of Protection.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
”Unless a scroll's description says otherwise, any creature that can understand a written language can read the script on a scroll and attempt to activate it.“
Am I reading the DMG incorrectly? I’m not seeing anything that says they are restricted to only spellcasters with that specific spell on their lists.
You didn't see the second and third sentences of spell scroll?
If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible.
I figured I missed something.
That's what happens when you look at the rules late at night.
Does the Thief’s Use Magic Device feature allow them to use spell scrolls? Yes. The intent is that a Thief can use spell scrolls with Use Magic Device.
It is the newest source and has not changed for over a year...
Just need a simple answer cause the DMG answer is confuzzling.
I have a tier 3 rogue, whos just a simple thief. She has a pocket full of gold and wants to cause a bit of havoc. In her downtime can she purchase and use a spell scroll even though she has no spell casting abilities??
No, because honestly scrolls are one of the worst items. I don't think it's much of an opinion either, but the spell has to be in your spell list, you have to be a caster, and you can fail the cast if its to high a level. It's really only good if you're a wizard or warlock, warlock has more use because of the free slot, but they probably won't get one they can use because of their smaller spell list. They can at least copy spells they don't know into their spell known spells as a wizard or book of ancient secrets warlock (if it's a ritual spell).
Even the rule designer doesn't know if the thief ability (at least I think it was thief) that lets you use items regardless of requirements would work with scrolls. Plus the ability is high level.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
In the Players Handbook, page 97 a Rouge with the Thief Archetype gains an ability at level 13 Called Use Magic Device. Which says
Use Magic Device
By 13th level, you have learned enough about the workings of magic that you can improvise the use of items even when they are not intended for you. You ignore all class, race, and level requirements on the use of magic items.
So according to that, wouldn't that allow my Rogue/Thief to successfully use a spell scroll?
People asked Jeremy Crawford this a few times. He gave different, completely opposing answers.
One was him saying it works, why wouldn't it. The other was him saying it flat out doesn't. I think his words aren't set in stone like people say, because he contradicts himself with things. Either way, your DM can make the ruling that it works, because it honestly should.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
Spell scrolls don't require a specific class, they require your class to have a specific spell.
For comparison, the artificer's level 14 ability magic item savant ignores all class, race, spell, and level requirements.
”Unless a scroll's description says otherwise, any creature that can understand a written language can read the script on a scroll and attempt to activate it.“
Am I reading the DMG incorrectly? I’m not seeing anything that says they are restricted to only spellcasters with that specific spell on their lists.
DCI: 3319125026
You didn't see the second and third sentences of spell scroll?
So DxJxC, how do you reconcile those two things? Any creature can attempt to activate the scroll but if you don't have the spell on your list you automatically fail (mishap)?
Oooooohhh I know the answer to this one: everyone's wrong, scrolls are terrible, and there's nothing to reconcile because there are actually two types of scrolls in the rules (this is where most people get confused).
This is the general rule on all scrolls:
A Spell Scroll is a specific type of scroll that has its own set of rules, and this is the one that we actually care about knowing exactly how it works:
The overall design flaw here is that 99/100 times we want to use a scroll, it's a Spell Scroll, and AFAIK there is only one "scroll" that isn't a Spell Scroll... the Scroll of Protection.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Sigred got it. "Unless the scroll's description says otherwise." There isn't a discrepancy because of this.
Yeah, I did miss that there were other types of scrolls besides spell scrolls that prevent the two rules from being contradictory.
I figured I missed something.
That's what happens when you look at the rules late at night.
Thanks.
DCI: 3319125026
For once and the future...https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf
Does the Thief’s Use Magic Device feature allow them to use spell scrolls? Yes. The intent is that a Thief can use spell scrolls with Use Magic Device.
It is the newest source and has not changed for over a year...
I just noticed it is also in the Sage Advice in DND Beyond as well. Thanks to them putting the Sage advice on the DND Beyond site as well.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA255
Does the Thief’s Use Magic Device feature allow them to use spell scrolls?
Yes. The intent is that a Thief can use spell scrolls with Use Magic Device.