If you were going to create undead versions of canon monsters who normally get multiple attacks, would they retain that ability as undead or lose them? Would a zombie fire giant still get two melee weapon attacks? Would a skeletal goblin boss?
The two versions we get in the Monster Manual - the minotaur skeleton and the ogre zombie - are both based on creatures with only one melee weapon attack per turn. Would zombie or skeleton versions of monsters with more than one retain them, or does becoming undead slow them down in some way, and reduce the number of attacks to one?
You would think the basic zombie would provide a template for what other zombies are like: it doesn't have a proficiency bonus, is 10 feet slower than it was in life, and probably a little stronger (+2 str?) and a lot tougher (+4 con?) and a lot clumsier (-4 Dex?), and has Undead Fortitude and a single Slam attack. But then when you look at high level zombies... they don't seem to follow that same mechanical pattern, but they do follow the same theme of getting a little tougher and a little slower (see e.g. Ogre vs Ogre Zombie, where the zombie received bonus HD to represent getting tougher). All have Undead Fortitude though.
For your own DM use, developing a Zombie template and Skeleton template is probably easiest, even if it doesn't land on exactly what the MM equivalent of some of those creatures would suggest. Changing/rebalancing attacks sounds too complicated for a template, but you certainly could for individual creatures. For Zombies, I'd suggest +4 Con, -4 Dex, 3 Int, Undead Fortitude, -10 speed, and the typical Undead immunities. For Skeleton, I'd suggest +2 Dex, +2 Con, 3 Int, Vulnerability Bludgeon, and the typical Undead immunities.
What I did notice is that both examples of canon zombie monsters used the same stats for Dex, Int, Wis, and Cha - only Strength and Dexterity seemed to be different for non-human zombies. Plus the Undead Fortitude, of course.
Yeah, I'll just have to go with the thematic changes we see in the various skeletal and zombie monsters in the official books.
There's actually quite a few zombies, search "zombie" using the dndbeyond search bar and you'll uncover more that might be able to be contrasted against base creatures as well.
You're going to have to explain this one. Every creature has a proficiency bonus, and the zombie doesn't have any numbers on it to suggest that there's some hidden penalty to counteract its +2 proficiency bonus.
Wait, am I mis-remembering which monster it is? There's something that doesn't calculate its attack as Proficiency Bonus + Attribute, and there was even an SA or tweet about it being a specific exception and example of why you can't get too excited about unpacking monster stat block entries... and now I can't find any record of it???
This is way too specific for me to be misremembering. If it isn't Zombie, what is it that I'm thinking of????
Oh jeez, I thought it was zombie but it's actually Ghoul, or at least just their bite. I really remembered that being zombie on account of them having no real skill or agency left, but I guess for no particular reason Ghouls just suck at biting??
There's actually quite a few zombies, search "zombie" using the dndbeyond search bar and you'll uncover more that might be able to be contrasted against base creatures as well.
If you were going to create undead versions of canon monsters who normally get multiple attacks, would they retain that ability as undead or lose them? Would a zombie fire giant still get two melee weapon attacks? Would a skeletal goblin boss?
The two versions we get in the Monster Manual - the minotaur skeleton and the ogre zombie - are both based on creatures with only one melee weapon attack per turn. Would zombie or skeleton versions of monsters with more than one retain them, or does becoming undead slow them down in some way, and reduce the number of attacks to one?
What do y'all think?
You would think the basic zombie would provide a template for what other zombies are like: it doesn't have a proficiency bonus, is 10 feet slower than it was in life, and probably a little stronger (+2 str?) and a lot tougher (+4 con?) and a lot clumsier (-4 Dex?), and has Undead Fortitude and a single Slam attack. But then when you look at high level zombies... they don't seem to follow that same mechanical pattern, but they do follow the same theme of getting a little tougher and a little slower (see e.g. Ogre vs Ogre Zombie, where the zombie received bonus HD to represent getting tougher). All have Undead Fortitude though.
For your own DM use, developing a Zombie template and Skeleton template is probably easiest, even if it doesn't land on exactly what the MM equivalent of some of those creatures would suggest. Changing/rebalancing attacks sounds too complicated for a template, but you certainly could for individual creatures. For Zombies, I'd suggest +4 Con, -4 Dex, 3 Int, Undead Fortitude, -10 speed, and the typical Undead immunities. For Skeleton, I'd suggest +2 Dex, +2 Con, 3 Int, Vulnerability Bludgeon, and the typical Undead immunities.
Close enough I would think.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
What I did notice is that both examples of canon zombie monsters used the same stats for Dex, Int, Wis, and Cha - only Strength and Dexterity seemed to be different for non-human zombies. Plus the Undead Fortitude, of course.
Yeah, I'll just have to go with the thematic changes we see in the various skeletal and zombie monsters in the official books.
There's actually quite a few zombies, search "zombie" using the dndbeyond search bar and you'll uncover more that might be able to be contrasted against base creatures as well.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
You're going to have to explain this one. Every creature has a proficiency bonus, and the zombie doesn't have any numbers on it to suggest that there's some hidden penalty to counteract its +2 proficiency bonus.
Wait, am I mis-remembering which monster it is? There's something that doesn't calculate its attack as Proficiency Bonus + Attribute, and there was even an SA or tweet about it being a specific exception and example of why you can't get too excited about unpacking monster stat block entries... and now I can't find any record of it???
This is way too specific for me to be misremembering. If it isn't Zombie, what is it that I'm thinking of????
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Oh jeez, I thought it was zombie but it's actually Ghoul, or at least just their bite. I really remembered that being zombie on account of them having no real skill or agency left, but I guess for no particular reason Ghouls just suck at biting??
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Yep! I did this. Thanks!