Captain America is often used as a marvelous (see what I did there?) example of a lawful good character and he's anything but unchanging and bigoted.
Really? I would certainly associate those two words with that character.
In any case, what alignment would you associate with the words "conservative", "predictable", "unchanging", "honourable", and so on?
The PHB says of lawful characters that they can be counte on to do "the right thing as expected by society." Isn't that the definition of conservative?
I don't equate the term 'lawful' with 'conservative' either. I am definitely a 'law and order' person, but I believe in using laws to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority and to maximize individual's ability to fully participate in society. I don't believe in maintaining status-quo, which is what I'd associate with 'conservative', but I do feel that I'd be doing 'the right thing as expected by society.'
The point is not to equate "lawful" with "conservative." Conservative...ness... is one way that "lawful" might express itself. There are also other ways. Alignments are not just one thing.
Captain America is often used as a marvelous (see what I did there?) example of a lawful good character and he's anything but unchanging and bigoted.
Really? I would certainly associate those two words with that character.
In any case, what alignment would you associate with the words "conservative", "predictable", "unchanging", "honourable", and so on?
The PHB says of lawful characters that they can be counte on to do "the right thing as expected by society." Isn't that the definition of conservative?
You associate the guy from the 40 who joined a segregated US Army but has no problems what so ever serving under a POC commander when he wakes up 70 years later bigoted? The guy who does his best (including making a list of new cultural experiences that he needs to try) unchanging and conservative? :D That's a innovative definition of those words. :)
And again, those are personality traits that doesn't need to have anything to do with your alignment, at least not the lawful-chaotic axle. And no, that is not the definition of conservative.
The point is not to equate "lawful" with "conservative." Conservative...ness... is one way that "lawful" might express itself. There are also other ways. Alignments are not just one thing.
Ah, yes. If we take the traditional meaning of the term 'conservative', then I would say that most conservatives would be associated with 'lawful'. But the term 'liberal' and 'progressive' don't correspondingly associate with 'choatic'. But this is the whole problem with trying to apply the alignment system to actual human ideological labels.
lawful neutral is very much just following rules. it can have a chaotic element if you follow your own code, but generally, lawful neutral is following rules to a fault. lawful good is following rules, but also being, well, good. lawful evil sounds strange, but it is more common than you think. lawful evil is evil, but to a certain degree. they follow a law or code, but that does not mean that they are weak. some of the greatest villains are lawful evil, but some are lawful neutral.
do you have any stories about lawful characters?
I always found Gygax's description from 1st edition DMG p.33 to be totally sufficient for deciding how lawful NPCs act. Characters are free to act as they wish (though the 1e DMG XP award system is supposed to punish your advancement for acting against your alignment).
Lawful Evil: Creatures of this alignment are great respecters of laws and strict order, but life, beauty, truth, freedom and the like are held as valueless, or at least scorned. By adhering to stringent discipline, those of lawful evil alignment hope to impose their yoke upon the world.
Lawful Good: While as strict in their prosecution of law and order, characters of lawful good alignment follow these precepts to improve the common weal. Certain freedoms must, of course, be sacrificed in order to bring order; but truth is of highest value, and life and beauty of great importance. The benefits of this society are to be brought to all.
Lawful Neutral: Those of this alignment view regulation as all-important, taking a middle road betwixt evil and good. This is because the ultimate harmony of the world - and the whole of the universe - is considered by lawful neutral creatures to have its sole hope rest upon law and order. Evil or good are immaterial beside the determined purpose of bringing all to predictability and regulation.
I'm really enjoying my "lawful good" Lich. He is this big old ball of contradictions, but i love him. Really curious to see how my players interact with him, since he is my BBEG. But the entire sub plot of my game is that things are not always as they seem, good and evil are relative.
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The point is not to equate "lawful" with "conservative." Conservative...ness... is one way that "lawful" might express itself. There are also other ways. Alignments are not just one thing.
You associate the guy from the 40 who joined a segregated US Army but has no problems what so ever serving under a POC commander when he wakes up 70 years later bigoted? The guy who does his best (including making a list of new cultural experiences that he needs to try) unchanging and conservative? :D That's a innovative definition of those words. :)
And again, those are personality traits that doesn't need to have anything to do with your alignment, at least not the lawful-chaotic axle. And no, that is not the definition of conservative.
Ah, yes. If we take the traditional meaning of the term 'conservative', then I would say that most conservatives would be associated with 'lawful'. But the term 'liberal' and 'progressive' don't correspondingly associate with 'choatic'. But this is the whole problem with trying to apply the alignment system to actual human ideological labels.
This off-topic/political conversation needs to cease.
Please take the side conversation to Private Messages and bring the discussion back to D&D alignment.
Thank you.
I always found Gygax's description from 1st edition DMG p.33 to be totally sufficient for deciding how lawful NPCs act. Characters are free to act as they wish (though the 1e DMG XP award system is supposed to punish your advancement for acting against your alignment).
I'm really enjoying my "lawful good" Lich. He is this big old ball of contradictions, but i love him. Really curious to see how my players interact with him, since he is my BBEG. But the entire sub plot of my game is that things are not always as they seem, good and evil are relative.