How do y’all think about how long rests affect calendar days? If a party takes a long rest during the day. Do they still need to camp for the night, or can they just keep going?
For example, party wakes up and barely survives a brutal encounter around 10am. They decide they should take a long rest at 10am to recover. At 4 pm, they continue exploring, but don’t have any notable encounters. Do they still need to camp and rest for the night when it’s time?
In the example you give, they can't take a long rest at 10am, because characters can only benefit from a single long rest in any 24-hour period. Less relevant is that a long rest is 8 hours for everyone but elves, so unless your world has a 28-hour day, they would have to wait until 6PM to continue.
That said, if you happen to finish a long rest at 6PM under conditions that actually allow you to do so, there's no rest-related reason you couldn't keep doing stuff through the night. Traveling at night may be more dangerous, but there's no need to sleep again. They just slept.
As already pointed out, they can't really benefit from the mechanical benefits of another long rest during the same 24-hour period. That said, yes, it is perfectly doable to rest from 10 AM until 4 AM and then be up all night. Just ask any college student.
In the example you give, they can't take a long rest at 10am, because characters can only benefit from a single long rest in any 24-hour period. Less relevant is that a long rest is 8 hours for everyone but elves, so unless your world has a 28-hour day, they would have to wait until 6PM to continue.
That is not necessarily true. There is not statement that a long rest actually occurred the night before, the party may just have slept without taking a mechanical long rest. Too many people assume sleep = long rest, but that is not the case. Short and Long rest are both game mechanics which must be actively used, not presumed to be used. DM should clarify with the party that a short or long rest is going to be used if there is ambiguity "We'll take a nap while in the coach to the city" "Are you taking a Short Rest?"...
As several have pointed out, sounds like a distinction between a mechanical long rest that gives benefits to your characters, and a role playing long rest that is basically downtime. The mechanical one has the limitations as listed above. The role playing one is up to you as the DM to decide depending on a lot of factors, including location and current safety level.
Personally I would suggest being as reasonable as possible with groups that are trying to be smart. In your 10am brutal encounter example, if the party has no reason to continue their journey quickly then it makes a lot of sense to rest and recover for the day. It can feel strange to just say "alright, you spend the day recovering and get in a good nights sleep, it's the next morning now" and advance a day, but unless there's a reason to make that plan not work (they're in a dangerous location, there is a time limit they are working against, they're in town and are being bothered by people coming to see them) I suggest let them rest and take that as a lesson learned about how cautious your group is. Then in the future if you want to "avoid" loosing an entire day you can change the circumstances....even if it's just to make that encounter happen later in the day!
In the example you give, they can't take a long rest at 10am, because characters can only benefit from a single long rest in any 24-hour period. Less relevant is that a long rest is 8 hours for everyone but elves, so unless your world has a 28-hour day, they would have to wait until 6PM to continue.
That is not necessarily true. There is not statement that a long rest actually occurred the night before, the party may just have slept without taking a mechanical long rest. Too many people assume sleep = long rest, but that is not the case. Short and Long rest are both game mechanics which must be actively used, not presumed to be used. DM should clarify with the party that a short or long rest is going to be used if there is ambiguity "We'll take a nap while in the coach to the city" "Are you taking a Short Rest?"...
There is nothing in the rules that suggests rests are actively declared. All they say is what constitutes the rest. If the conditions are fulfilled, it’s a rest. “The players say they’re taking a rest” is not one of the conditions.
The rules state you cannot gain the benefits of a long rest more than once per day/24hours. The characters can sleep as much as they want, and if they had no need from the previous day to use a long rest, then they are not forced to use a long rest just because they sleep for 8 hours. If they don't declare, whether by word or by de facto usage of the benefits of rest, then they in fact have not used it. Unless one is using the optional exhaustion rules from XGtE, there is no need for a "fresh" party to take a long rest ever, however silly that sounds.
If they don't declare, whether by word or by de facto usage of the benefits of rest, then they in fact have not used it.
This is the part you’re making up. If you can point to a rule that says that, then great.
There’s a very simple way to avoid taking a long rest, but it does NOT involve just not saying you’re taking a long rest. Just don’t sleep for six hours while spending two more doing nothing more strenuous than light activity.
Not that it should matter in practice. If your DM has engineered a situation where it’s somehow beneficial for you to spend eight hours doing nothing but NOT take a long rest, your game is weird and no one will like it.
A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long,
This is what a long rest it, with the time limit.
during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch.
This is the definitions of what activities are permitted when a character takes a long rest. These activities in and of themselves do not force a long rest.
If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity ... the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.
Here is the definition of an interruption and consequence of a long rest. The bolded part is important. Because sleeping and light activity on their own provide NO BENEFIT.
At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them
This part defines what THE BENEFIT of a long rest is, in addition to the BENEFIT a long rest grants to abilities, including spell effects.
A character can't benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period, and a character must have at least 1 hit point at the start of the rest to gain its benefits.
Once again, more clarity on benefiting from a long rest. If an activity (or non-activity) provides no benefits, it is not a rest, long or short, at least not mechanically.
If a party has used no abilities, and taken no damage, and has no levels of exhaustion in a day and they are attacked when they leave camp and are badly wounded, they have not yet taken a long rest in the day, because they have not received any benefits. Now how realistic is it to get up, do something and then go back to sleep? According to my teenaged kids, very realistic...
None of which says you can voluntarily forgo the benefits of a long rest by neglecting to say you were taking a long rest. Once again, if the conditions are met, it’s a rest. SAYING it’s a rest is not a condition.
Regardless, I'm not sure what's being argued over. It's correct that they can't take another long rest immediately after finishing one, since it says "A character can't benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period". If you don't benefit from a long rest at all, you haven't really taken a long rest. But as mentioned, you can sleep or do whatever during the day even if it doesn't count as a long rest for you. sSleep is a prerequisite for long rests (for most characters), but not a sufficient condition alone - you can sleep even if it doesn't provide a mechanical benefit. And also as mentioned, there's no requirement that long rests only happen at night; if you haven't already taken a long rest in the past 24 hours, you can certainly (try to) take one, regardless of what time of day it is.
None of which says you can voluntarily forgo the benefits of a long rest by neglecting to say you were taking a long rest. Once again, if the conditions are met, it’s a rest. SAYING it’s a rest is not a condition.
You have what I'm saying reversed. Unless the characters use the benefit of a rest, then the "rest" is not a mechanical rest. Without the benefit the conditions don't matter. Not getting the benefit is the same as not taking the benefit. In other words ZERO BENEFITS equals zero benefits. As @V2Blast simply puts it:
If you don't benefit from a long rest at all, you haven't really taken a long rest.
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How do y’all think about how long rests affect calendar days? If a party takes a long rest during the day. Do they still need to camp for the night, or can they just keep going?
For example, party wakes up and barely survives a brutal encounter around 10am. They decide they should take a long rest at 10am to recover. At 4 pm, they continue exploring, but don’t have any notable encounters. Do they still need to camp and rest for the night when it’s time?
In the example you give, they can't take a long rest at 10am, because characters can only benefit from a single long rest in any 24-hour period. Less relevant is that a long rest is 8 hours for everyone but elves, so unless your world has a 28-hour day, they would have to wait until 6PM to continue.
That said, if you happen to finish a long rest at 6PM under conditions that actually allow you to do so, there's no rest-related reason you couldn't keep doing stuff through the night. Traveling at night may be more dangerous, but there's no need to sleep again. They just slept.
As already pointed out, they can't really benefit from the mechanical benefits of another long rest during the same 24-hour period. That said, yes, it is perfectly doable to rest from 10 AM until 4 AM and then be up all night. Just ask any college student.
That is not necessarily true. There is not statement that a long rest actually occurred the night before, the party may just have slept without taking a mechanical long rest. Too many people assume sleep = long rest, but that is not the case. Short and Long rest are both game mechanics which must be actively used, not presumed to be used. DM should clarify with the party that a short or long rest is going to be used if there is ambiguity "We'll take a nap while in the coach to the city" "Are you taking a Short Rest?"...
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InsiderAs several have pointed out, sounds like a distinction between a mechanical long rest that gives benefits to your characters, and a role playing long rest that is basically downtime. The mechanical one has the limitations as listed above. The role playing one is up to you as the DM to decide depending on a lot of factors, including location and current safety level.
Personally I would suggest being as reasonable as possible with groups that are trying to be smart. In your 10am brutal encounter example, if the party has no reason to continue their journey quickly then it makes a lot of sense to rest and recover for the day. It can feel strange to just say "alright, you spend the day recovering and get in a good nights sleep, it's the next morning now" and advance a day, but unless there's a reason to make that plan not work (they're in a dangerous location, there is a time limit they are working against, they're in town and are being bothered by people coming to see them) I suggest let them rest and take that as a lesson learned about how cautious your group is. Then in the future if you want to "avoid" loosing an entire day you can change the circumstances....even if it's just to make that encounter happen later in the day!
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There is nothing in the rules that suggests rests are actively declared. All they say is what constitutes the rest. If the conditions are fulfilled, it’s a rest. “The players say they’re taking a rest” is not one of the conditions.
The rules state you cannot gain the benefits of a long rest more than once per day/24hours. The characters can sleep as much as they want, and if they had no need from the previous day to use a long rest, then they are not forced to use a long rest just because they sleep for 8 hours. If they don't declare, whether by word or by de facto usage of the benefits of rest, then they in fact have not used it. Unless one is using the optional exhaustion rules from XGtE, there is no need for a "fresh" party to take a long rest ever, however silly that sounds.
This is the part you’re making up. If you can point to a rule that says that, then great.
There’s a very simple way to avoid taking a long rest, but it does NOT involve just not saying you’re taking a long rest. Just don’t sleep for six hours while spending two more doing nothing more strenuous than light activity.
Not that it should matter in practice. If your DM has engineered a situation where it’s somehow beneficial for you to spend eight hours doing nothing but NOT take a long rest, your game is weird and no one will like it.
This is what a long rest it, with the time limit.
This is the definitions of what activities are permitted when a character takes a long rest. These activities in and of themselves do not force a long rest.
Here is the definition of an interruption and consequence of a long rest. The bolded part is important. Because sleeping and light activity on their own provide NO BENEFIT.
This part defines what THE BENEFIT of a long rest is, in addition to the BENEFIT a long rest grants to abilities, including spell effects.
Once again, more clarity on benefiting from a long rest. If an activity (or non-activity) provides no benefits, it is not a rest, long or short, at least not mechanically.
If a party has used no abilities, and taken no damage, and has no levels of exhaustion in a day and they are attacked when they leave camp and are badly wounded, they have not yet taken a long rest in the day, because they have not received any benefits. Now how realistic is it to get up, do something and then go back to sleep? According to my teenaged kids, very realistic...
None of which says you can voluntarily forgo the benefits of a long rest by neglecting to say you were taking a long rest. Once again, if the conditions are met, it’s a rest. SAYING it’s a rest is not a condition.
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ModeratorBasically, the DM effectively decides when the party is able to rest. There's no requirement that they say they're trying to benefit from a certain kind of rest, just that they meet the specified requirements in the resting rules - and then the rest is largely up to the DM: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/07/27/is-there-anything-stopping-me-from-taking-8-consecutive-rests-during-an-8-hour-period/
Regardless, I'm not sure what's being argued over. It's correct that they can't take another long rest immediately after finishing one, since it says "A character can't benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period". If you don't benefit from a long rest at all, you haven't really taken a long rest. But as mentioned, you can sleep or do whatever during the day even if it doesn't count as a long rest for you. sSleep is a prerequisite for long rests (for most characters), but not a sufficient condition alone - you can sleep even if it doesn't provide a mechanical benefit. And also as mentioned, there's no requirement that long rests only happen at night; if you haven't already taken a long rest in the past 24 hours, you can certainly (try to) take one, regardless of what time of day it is.
You have what I'm saying reversed. Unless the characters use the benefit of a rest, then the "rest" is not a mechanical rest. Without the benefit the conditions don't matter. Not getting the benefit is the same as not taking the benefit. In other words ZERO BENEFITS equals zero benefits. As @V2Blast simply puts it: