On average, Level 1 characters will start with at least +5 to hit for their main attacks(+2 from Proficiency Bonus, +3 from likely having a 16 or higher in their attack stat). So at Level 1, in order for a target to be impossible to hit with a non-critical hit, they'd need an AC of 25. That was the number mentioned in the first post of this thread. Guess how many monsters have an AC of 25? Two. One is Tiamat, the other is the Tarrasque. Both of them are CR 30. If you're facing either of them at Level 1, either your Dungeon Master really doesn't understand the game, or they hate you. It feels like to me that this whole thread is trying to argue whether an aspect of the game is broken based on a situation that is for all practical purposes impossible.
Well, there are situations, they're just not really PC-appropriate situations -- e.g. an ancient red dragon attacking a city which has commoners as part of the defense).
On average, Level 1 characters will start with at least +5 to hit for their main attacks(+2 from Proficiency Bonus, +3 from likely having a 16 or higher in their attack stat). So at Level 1, in order for a target to be impossible to hit with a non-critical hit, they'd need an AC of 25. That was the number mentioned in the first post of this thread. Guess how many monsters have an AC of 25? Two. One is Tiamat, the other is the Tarrasque. Both of them are CR 30. If you're facing either of them at Level 1, either your Dungeon Master really doesn't understand the game, or they hate you. It feels like to me that this whole thread is trying to argue whether an aspect of the game is broken based on a situation that is for all practical purposes impossible.
Well, there are situations, they're just not really PC-appropriate situations -- e.g. an ancient red dragon attacking a city which has commoners as part of the defense).
Where was that group combat rule, it wasn't in the 2017 Mass Combat UA.... something about, figure out what a creature like a Commoner would need to roll to hit a target (say, a 20), and then it takes that many of them in a group every round to inflict one hit? That wasn't quite the rule, but it was something like that, where was it...
Where was that group combat rule, it wasn't in the 2017 Mass Combat UA.... something about, figure out what a creature like a Commoner would need to roll to hit a target (say, a 20), and then it takes that many of them in a group every round to inflict one hit? That wasn't quite the rule, but it was something like that, where was it...
Keeping combat moving along at a brisk pace can be difficult when there are dozens of monsters involved in a battle. When handling a crowded battlefield, you can speed up play by forgoing attack rolls in favor of approximating the average number of hits a large group of monsters can inflict on a target.
Instead of rolling an attack roll, determine the minimum d20 roll a creature needs in order to hit a target by subtracting its attack bonus from the target’s AC. You’ll need to refer to the result throughout the battle, so it’s best to write it down.
Look up the minimum d20 roll needed on the Mob Attacks table. The table shows you how many creatures that need that die roll or higher must attack a target in order for one of them to hit. If that many creatures attack the target, their combined efforts result in one of them hitting the target.
For example, eight orcs surround a fighter. The orcs’ attack bonus is +5, and the fighter’s AC is 19. The orcs need a 14 or higher to hit the fighter. According to the table, for every three orcs that attack the fighter, one of them hits. There are enough orcs for two groups of three. The remaining two orcs fail to hit the fighter.
If the attacking creatures deal different amounts of damage, assume that the creature that deals the most damage is the one that hits. If the creature that hits has multiple attacks with the same attack bonus, assume that it hits once with each of those attacks. If a creature’s attacks have different attack bonuses, resolve each attack separately.
This attack resolution system ignores critical hits in favor of reducing the number of die rolls. As the number of combatants dwindles, switch back to using individual die rolls to avoid situations where one side can’t possibly hit the other.
Mob Attacks
d20 Roll Needed
Attackers Needed for One to Hit
1–5
1
6–12
2
13–14
3
15–16
4
17–18
5
19
10
20
20
So I remembered the rule wrong, but got the conclusion right: it takes 20 pitiful commoners to hit one badass dragon once per round.
My rule is a natural 20 is always a hit (iaw RAW), but is not always a crit if the AC is >20. If the only way you can hit a creature is with a natural 20 then my rule is that to crit you need to roll another natural 20.
My rule is a natural 20 is always a hit (iaw RAW), but is not always a crit if the AC is >20. If the only way you can hit a creature is with a natural 20 then my rule is that to crit you need to roll another natural 20.
My rule is a natural 20 is always a hit (iaw RAW), but is not always a crit if the AC is >20. If the only way you can hit a creature is with a natural 20 then my rule is that to crit you need to roll another natural 20.
Their chance of doing two nat 20s is 1 in 400.
Their chance of rolling a critical hit on any given attack is 1 in 400 (i.e. before any dice are dropped). However, the second roll only comes up in situations where they have already rolled 20. Under those circumstances the chances of rolling the second 20 is just 1 in 20.
My rule is a natural 20 is always a hit (iaw RAW), but is not always a crit if the AC is >20. If the only way you can hit a creature is with a natural 20 then my rule is that to crit you need to roll another natural 20.
Dude, in my 5 years of D&D I have never rolled a nat20 on an attack roll, ie. I have never actually tried to critical hit anything in the game. Do you expect people to roll 2x 20 in row? Seriously? Why do you even have this rule though? Do you have a game with lucky crit fishers or something?
Your DM is a bad sport, lol. Nat 1s and nat 20s are there to up the stakes of the dice roll. If a monster is supposed to be invulnerable they will have immunity to damage.
Nat 1's and 20's are meant to reflect the chaos that can happen in a combat scenario and make gameplay varied and unexpected. Sometimes attackers stumble and sometimes they are able to unexpectedly slip past that shield to get a blade in between the joints in the armor. Removing those things just makes combat even more of a predictable dice rolling slog.
To me, there should always be a chance you get damaged...even if you have a 95% chance of not being hit. A 1 is always a miss, no matter how much you have broken bounded accuracy with a +15 or some such. And a 20 is always a hit, even if that's the only way they can hit you. Adds some minor element of risk for you. Let's face it...if they have to roll a 20 to hit you, probably not a lot of risk. ;)
Criticals, whether they be 1s or 20s, aren’t meant to be logical. They’re an exciting, intense moment where the roll of the dice either makes or breaks the game. A 1 could be a heart-breaking moment, which could lead to a fantastic comeback when you roll a 20 at the perfect moment.
Criticals, whether they be 1s or 20s, aren’t meant to be logical. They’re an exciting, intense moment where the roll of the dice either makes or breaks the game. A 1 could be a heart-breaking moment, which could lead to a fantastic comeback when you roll a 20 at the perfect moment.
Criticals are story points.
They keep the G in RPG :)
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Well, there are situations, they're just not really PC-appropriate situations -- e.g. an ancient red dragon attacking a city which has commoners as part of the defense).
Where was that group combat rule, it wasn't in the 2017 Mass Combat UA.... something about, figure out what a creature like a Commoner would need to roll to hit a target (say, a 20), and then it takes that many of them in a group every round to inflict one hit? That wasn't quite the rule, but it was something like that, where was it...
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
It's in the DMG.
Ah, good find, who ever reads that old thing! :D
So I remembered the rule wrong, but got the conclusion right: it takes 20 pitiful commoners to hit one badass dragon once per round.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
My rule is a natural 20 is always a hit (iaw RAW), but is not always a crit if the AC is >20. If the only way you can hit a creature is with a natural 20 then my rule is that to crit you need to roll another natural 20.
It always hits except for when it doesn't ;)
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Their chance of doing two nat 20s is 1 in 400.
Their chance of rolling a critical hit on any given attack is 1 in 400 (i.e. before any dice are dropped). However, the second roll only comes up in situations where they have already rolled 20. Under those circumstances the chances of rolling the second 20 is just 1 in 20.
Dude, in my 5 years of D&D I have never rolled a nat20 on an attack roll, ie. I have never actually tried to critical hit anything in the game. Do you expect people to roll 2x 20 in row? Seriously?
Why do you even have this rule though? Do you have a game with lucky crit fishers or something?
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Get new dice.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Your DM is a bad sport, lol. Nat 1s and nat 20s are there to up the stakes of the dice roll. If a monster is supposed to be invulnerable they will have immunity to damage.
Nat 1's and 20's are meant to reflect the chaos that can happen in a combat scenario and make gameplay varied and unexpected. Sometimes attackers stumble and sometimes they are able to unexpectedly slip past that shield to get a blade in between the joints in the armor. Removing those things just makes combat even more of a predictable dice rolling slog.
To me, there should always be a chance you get damaged...even if you have a 95% chance of not being hit. A 1 is always a miss, no matter how much you have broken bounded accuracy with a +15 or some such. And a 20 is always a hit, even if that's the only way they can hit you. Adds some minor element of risk for you. Let's face it...if they have to roll a 20 to hit you, probably not a lot of risk. ;)
Criticals, whether they be 1s or 20s, aren’t meant to be logical. They’re an exciting, intense moment where the roll of the dice either makes or breaks the game. A 1 could be a heart-breaking moment, which could lead to a fantastic comeback when you roll a 20 at the perfect moment.
Criticals are story points.
They keep the G in RPG :)