could l have a character use a bow/crossbow while wearing and getting the effects from a shield? (from what l have found,this can only happen with a multiclass, but l still want to know if its possible?)
EDIT: Short answer: not unless you homebrew.
Edit 2, (almost one year later on May 6, 2021) (or just hand waive it, cause even though there's no stat difference in shields, doesn't mean they're all exactly the same. If a player wants a good shield they can just strap to their arm and have full use of their hand, then why shouldn't they be able to? If necessary, just make it cost a little extra, or take some down time to "train".)
Edit 3: (September 5th, 2022) 1: How did this get found after so long!? 2: Right, there is that magical Shield that floats around you. Forgot about that, or more likely, didn't know it existed when l last posted.
RAW, no. You can HOLD a crossbow and benefit from a shield, but you can’t fire one. Even a 1H hand crossbow requires a free hand to load the bolt. Most DMs would allow you to pre-load a bolt and then strap on your shield, giving you a single shot before the crossbow becomes useless, but that’s a house rule. By strict RAW, the answer is a flat no.
wait,why cant you reload while holding a shield? don't shields (the types l know of at the very least) have a slot you fit your arm into to hold it up (like a plastic shopping bag?)
you aren't holding the shield solely with your hand,so reloading shouldn't be a issue,especially if its a somewhat smaller shield.
The Ammunition property of ammunition-based weapons like bows and crossbows requires a free hand to draw and ready a fresh piece of ammo for each attack made. Even ranged weapons without the Two-Handed property require this free hand.
One can theoretically get around this by using the Repeating Shot infusion the artificer class has access to, but this is a table-by-table decision. Some DMs allow Repeating Shot to basically make the weapon semi-automatic, while other DMs state that the weapon still requires a free hand to be made ready to reload and fire.
wait,why cant you reload while holding a shield? don't shields (the types l know of at the very least) have a slot you fit your arm into to hold it up (like a plastic shopping bag?)
you aren't holding the shield solely with your hand,so reloading shouldn't be a issue,especially if its a somewhat smaller shield.
Because the ammunition property that Yurei helpfully linked explicitly says "you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon." There is no such thing, mechanically, as "a somewhat smaller shield." Every shield follows the exact same rules, and no hand that is effectively wielding a shield is free (there's some dumb floating magic shield that's an exception, obviously, before anyone tries to gotcha me with that).
wait,why cant you reload while holding a shield? don't shields (the types l know of at the very least) have a slot you fit your arm into to hold it up (like a plastic shopping bag?)
Many shields, bucklers and boss shields especially, require you to hold on to them. That said, if we want a "realistic" justification for the balancing rule that disallows you from reloading a crossbow with your shield hand, just imagine how fiddly and difficult it would be to reload while at the same time actively using the shield to give you the AC bonus. Picture to illustrate:
There are some shield designs that would work, but they'd still be unwieldy and would slow down the process even where they do. You'd either be sacrificing shot speed (which is a huge deal for an already slow weapon) or undermining the protection the shield would provide (by making it smaller or lighter weight).
There are some shield designs that would work, but they'd still be unwieldy and would slow down the process even where they do. You'd either be sacrificing shot speed (which is a huge deal for an already slow weapon) or undermining the protection the shield would provide (by making it smaller or lighter weight).
Even if the shield was light enough weight (due to magical materials or whatever) to not slow you down, the shield would still be out of position any round you were reloading or firing, defeating the whole purpose of using a shield.
Not sure I understand. Are we agreeing or not? Because it seems like all you did was restate what I said without adding anything.
Ugh, another thread bogged down by what a shield would “really” do. It does what the rules say it does, no need to cite pictures of reenactment buffs.
the issue is (1) a bow and crossbows “ammunition” property, and (2) A shield occupies one hand and makes it not free, whether you’re “wearing”/“wielding” it actively (+2 AC) or just holding it like an object. The “loading” property of crossbows is irrelevent to this, which is why Crossbow Expert is no help.
On my phone so I can’t link/quote effectively, but everything you need is in the equipment section of PHB, and the the Crossbow Expert feat if you don’t believe me that it’s irrelevent.
Shields. A shield is made from wood or metal and is carried in one hand....
Ammunition. You can use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon. Each time you attack with the weapon, you expend one piece of ammunition. Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon)...
Ugh, another thread bogged down by what a shield would “really” do. It does what the rules say it does, no need to cite pictures of reenactment buffs.
Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or something? I replied to someone who asked about shield handles and chose an illustrative picture for sake of ease. The whole thread is about what shields "do", incase you missed that.
The only way to accomplish this is via Artificer's Repeating Shot on a Crossbow, Hand. You do not have to be an Artificer yourself, but good luck convincing a party member to commit one of their Infusions for your use.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
The only way to accomplish this is via Artificer's Repeating Shot on a Crossbow, Hand. You do not have to be an Artificer yourself, but good luck convincing a party member to commit one of their Infusions for your use.
But isn't that the point of the Artificer infusions? To help the other party members?
The only way to accomplish this is via Artificer's Repeating Shot on a Crossbow, Hand. You do not have to be an Artificer yourself, but good luck convincing a party member to commit one of their Infusions for your use.
But isn't that the point of the Artificer infusions? To help the other party members?
The point of everything is to help the party. It's a team game after all!
Using that infusion to help a party member would be a great use of an infusion. However, most players are going to want to at least get the infusions they want for themselves first, Repeating Shot can only be used to infuse a single ranged weapon per Artificer, and most artificers are ranged attackers that will want to use the infusion for themselves. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
The only way to accomplish this is via Artificer's Repeating Shot on a Crossbow, Hand. You do not have to be an Artificer yourself, but good luck convincing a party member to commit one of their Infusions for your use.
But isn't that the point of the Artificer infusions? To help the other party members?
The point of everything is to help the party. It's a team game after all!
Using that infusion to help a party member would be a great use of an infusion. However, most players are going to want to at least get the infusions they want for themselves first, Repeating Shot can only be used to infuse a single ranged weapon per Artificer, and most artificers are ranged attackers that will want to use the infusion for themselves. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Going this route, instead of a crossbow, go with a gunpowder weapon (fewer moving parts, so likely easier to work out a compatible design) and build it into the shield.
Most handgun designs that can easily be built into a shield is more complicated than a crossbow but the compactness of a gun makes it easier to build into a shield. There are some examples in the Imperial Armoury in Vienna, for example.
Do note that while the Pistol seems like it has Ammunition property, which is the property that ends up requiring a free hand for Bows and a boss, this may be a DIFFERENT ammunition property than the conventional one in the PHB, and makes no mention of needing a free hand to load (but also doesn’t allow shots to be recovered).
Ammunition. The ammunition of a firearm is destroyed upon use. Renaissance and modern firearms use bullets. Futuristic firearms are powered by a special type of ammunition called energy cells. An energy cell contains enough power for all the shots its firearm can make.
the layout of that section is a little odd, and some of the firearms incontrovertibly do refer to PHB properties, and the leadin only mentions reload and burst fire being new properties... but I dunno, ammunition for a pistol may be different than ammunition for a bow/xbow
Do note that while the Pistol seems like it has Ammunition property, which is the property that ends up requiring a free hand for Bows and a boss, this may be a DIFFERENT ammunition property than the conventional one in the PHB, and makes no mention of needing a free hand to load (but also doesn’t allow shots to be recovered).
Ammunition. The ammunition of a firearm is destroyed upon use. Renaissance and modern firearms use bullets. Futuristic firearms are powered by a special type of ammunition called energy cells. An energy cell contains enough power for all the shots its firearm can make.
the layout of that section is a little odd, and some of the firearms incontrovertibly do refer to PHB properties, and the leadin only mentions reload and burst fire being new properties... but I dunno, ammunition for a pistol may be different than ammunition for a bow/xbow
I think that (if I'm correctly recalling the one you're referring to) is only applicable to DMs using alternate rulesets for those types of campaigns. It's definitely not the standard RAW Ammunition property.
[edit] Yeah, it's an alternate (supported) property for non-standard campaigns involving firearms. That ammo property is for worlds with firearms that have advanced to the point of cycling ammo through the chamber/breach via clips/mags. The standard spread of campaign settings do not advance past (and is not balanced for) the advent of flintlocks & smooth-bores.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Right, there's no such thing as a default Pistol, they only exist in campaigns where DMs are using the alternate Firearms rules in Chapter 9 of the DMG. The pistol described in that section uses an Ammunition (Firearms) property which does not appear to be the same Ammunition property in the PHB. Whether that's intended or not I don't know, just pointing out, if your DM is allowing your Artificer to build/use Pistols, those Pistols may or may not need a free hand to load ammunition between each shot depending on how they interpret that section.
The only way to accomplish this is via Artificer's Repeating Shot on a Crossbow, Hand. You do not have to be an Artificer yourself, but good luck convincing a party member to commit one of their Infusions for your use.
But isn't that the point of the Artificer infusions? To help the other party members?
.... considering Artificers eventually get a bonus to saves for the number of items they personally have Attuned ... the first and default assumption for "who gets X infusion" is and always should be "the artificer who made it".
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could l have a character use a bow/crossbow while wearing and getting the effects from a shield? (from what l have found,this can only happen with a multiclass, but l still want to know if its possible?)
EDIT: Short answer: not unless you homebrew.
Edit 2, (almost one year later on May 6, 2021) (or just hand waive it, cause even though there's no stat difference in shields, doesn't mean they're all exactly the same. If a player wants a good shield they can just strap to their arm and have full use of their hand, then why shouldn't they be able to? If necessary, just make it cost a little extra, or take some down time to "train".)
Edit 3: (September 5th, 2022) 1: How did this get found after so long!? 2: Right, there is that magical Shield that floats around you. Forgot about that, or more likely, didn't know it existed when l last posted.
RAW, no. You can HOLD a crossbow and benefit from a shield, but you can’t fire one. Even a 1H hand crossbow requires a free hand to load the bolt. Most DMs would allow you to pre-load a bolt and then strap on your shield, giving you a single shot before the crossbow becomes useless, but that’s a house rule. By strict RAW, the answer is a flat no.
wait,why cant you reload while holding a shield? don't shields (the types l know of at the very least) have a slot you fit your arm into to hold it up (like a plastic shopping bag?)
you aren't holding the shield solely with your hand,so reloading shouldn't be a issue,especially if its a somewhat smaller shield.
The Ammunition property of ammunition-based weapons like bows and crossbows requires a free hand to draw and ready a fresh piece of ammo for each attack made. Even ranged weapons without the Two-Handed property require this free hand.
One can theoretically get around this by using the Repeating Shot infusion the artificer class has access to, but this is a table-by-table decision. Some DMs allow Repeating Shot to basically make the weapon semi-automatic, while other DMs state that the weapon still requires a free hand to be made ready to reload and fire.
Please do not contact or message me.
Because the ammunition property that Yurei helpfully linked explicitly says "you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon." There is no such thing, mechanically, as "a somewhat smaller shield." Every shield follows the exact same rules, and no hand that is effectively wielding a shield is free (there's some dumb floating magic shield that's an exception, obviously, before anyone tries to gotcha me with that).
Can I "gotcha" you for calling it dumb? Because it's kinda amazing...
Many shields, bucklers and boss shields especially, require you to hold on to them. That said, if we want a "realistic" justification for the balancing rule that disallows you from reloading a crossbow with your shield hand, just imagine how fiddly and difficult it would be to reload while at the same time actively using the shield to give you the AC bonus. Picture to illustrate:
There are some shield designs that would work, but they'd still be unwieldy and would slow down the process even where they do. You'd either be sacrificing shot speed (which is a huge deal for an already slow weapon) or undermining the protection the shield would provide (by making it smaller or lighter weight).
Not sure I understand. Are we agreeing or not? Because it seems like all you did was restate what I said without adding anything.
Ugh, another thread bogged down by what a shield would “really” do. It does what the rules say it does, no need to cite pictures of reenactment buffs.
the issue is (1) a bow and crossbows “ammunition” property, and (2) A shield occupies one hand and makes it not free, whether you’re “wearing”/“wielding” it actively (+2 AC) or just holding it like an object. The “loading” property of crossbows is irrelevent to this, which is why Crossbow Expert is no help.
On my phone so I can’t link/quote effectively, but everything you need is in the equipment section of PHB, and the the Crossbow Expert feat if you don’t believe me that it’s irrelevent.
Shields. A shield is made from wood or metal and is carried in one hand....
Ammunition. You can use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon. Each time you attack with the weapon, you expend one piece of ammunition. Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon)...
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or something? I replied to someone who asked about shield handles and chose an illustrative picture for sake of ease. The whole thread is about what shields "do", incase you missed that.
2 levels of Artificer, the Repeating Shot infusion and you are good to go.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
The only way to accomplish this is via Artificer's Repeating Shot on a Crossbow, Hand. You do not have to be an Artificer yourself, but good luck convincing a party member to commit one of their Infusions for your use.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
But isn't that the point of the Artificer infusions? To help the other party members?
The point of everything is to help the party. It's a team game after all!
Using that infusion to help a party member would be a great use of an infusion. However, most players are going to want to at least get the infusions they want for themselves first, Repeating Shot can only be used to infuse a single ranged weapon per Artificer, and most artificers are ranged attackers that will want to use the infusion for themselves. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Most handgun designs that can easily be built into a shield is more complicated than a crossbow but the compactness of a gun makes it easier to build into a shield. There are some examples in the Imperial Armoury in Vienna, for example.
Do note that while the Pistol seems like it has Ammunition property, which is the property that ends up requiring a free hand for Bows and a boss, this may be a DIFFERENT ammunition property than the conventional one in the PHB, and makes no mention of needing a free hand to load (but also doesn’t allow shots to be recovered).
Ammunition. The ammunition of a firearm is destroyed upon use. Renaissance and modern firearms use bullets. Futuristic firearms are powered by a special type of ammunition called energy cells. An energy cell contains enough power for all the shots its firearm can make.
the layout of that section is a little odd, and some of the firearms incontrovertibly do refer to PHB properties, and the leadin only mentions reload and burst fire being new properties... but I dunno, ammunition for a pistol may be different than ammunition for a bow/xbow
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I think that (if I'm correctly recalling the one you're referring to) is only applicable to DMs using alternate rulesets for those types of campaigns. It's definitely not the standard RAW Ammunition property.
[edit] Yeah, it's an alternate (supported) property for non-standard campaigns involving firearms. That ammo property is for worlds with firearms that have advanced to the point of cycling ammo through the chamber/breach via clips/mags. The standard spread of campaign settings do not advance past (and is not balanced for) the advent of flintlocks & smooth-bores.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Right, there's no such thing as a default Pistol, they only exist in campaigns where DMs are using the alternate Firearms rules in Chapter 9 of the DMG. The pistol described in that section uses an Ammunition (Firearms) property which does not appear to be the same Ammunition property in the PHB. Whether that's intended or not I don't know, just pointing out, if your DM is allowing your Artificer to build/use Pistols, those Pistols may or may not need a free hand to load ammunition between each shot depending on how they interpret that section.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
.... considering Artificers eventually get a bonus to saves for the number of items they personally have Attuned ... the first and default assumption for "who gets X infusion" is and always should be "the artificer who made it".