You learn to move things with your mind, granting you the following benefits:
Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
You learn the mage hand cantrip. You can cast it without verbal or somatic components, and you can make the spectral hand invisible. If you already know this spell, its range increases by 30 feet when you cast it. Its spellcasting ability is the ability increased by this feat.
As a bonus action, you can try to telekinetically shove one creature you can see within 30 feet of you. When you do so, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + the ability modifier of the score increased by this feat) or be moved 5 feet toward you or away from you. A creature can willingly fail this save.
I have a few questions for the collective gathered here. When it says "If you already know this spell, its range increases by 30 feet when you cast it." does that also increase the range of the push and pull ability by 30ft? Does it increase the amount that you can move the hand in a turn by 30ft? Does this stack with Mage Hand Legerdemain?
The increased range means that you can make the hand initially appear up to 60ft away from you. By necessity, it should also change the text in mage hand from "The hand vanishes if it is ever more than 30 feet away from you", to now read 60ft - as otherwise the range increase does nothing at all.
so with this feat removing the sematic and verbal components of the spell does that mean you cast it at will? and does it still require an action to cast? or is it cast as part of the bonus action used to push or pull a target?
It still requires a full action to cast. Aside from also being included along with Push/Pull in the feat, Mage Hand is completely separate and the two features do not interact in any meaningful way. The removal of Vocal and Somatic components to Mage Hand simply means that the character can essentially move objects with their mind without necessarily gesturing or saying anything, but it's still a full action to do so.
so with this feat removing the sematic and verbal components of the spell does that mean you cast it at will? and does it still require an action to cast? or is it cast as part of the bonus action used to push or pull a target?
It is a cantrip, so yes you can cast it at will.
Yes it still requires an action (because nothing says it doesn't).
The push/pull bonus action is separate and does not use the mage hand at all.
so its intended to be able to do the push/pull every round? so out of combat you can just spam force pushes every 6 seconds? thats the only thing that makes me question it
so its intended to be able to do the push/pull every round? so out of combat you can just spam force pushes every 6 seconds? thats the only thing that makes me question it
Yes? You can also shove something 5 feet every 6 seconds without the feat using your hands (even multiple times per 6 seconds with extra attack).
The funny thing about the Telekinetic feat is, RAW, there's no stated size limitation on your ability to shove creatures... even the Telekinesis spell limits its ability to a Huge or smaller creature. However, Telekinetic Feat cannot be used to shove objects... for moving objects you can use the Mage Hand cantrip, but you're stuck with the limitations of that spell... so even though you can yank a Kraken 5 feet toward yourself, you can't use that same feat to move a single set of Heavy Armor. Just one of many spells or abilities that works the way it does for game balance purposes, even if it leads to some serious logical conundrums.
Would a shove with a telekinetic hand if successfully done trigger a op attack? That is if the opponent is pushed out of someone’s range without disengaging.
Would a shove with a telekinetic hand if successfully done trigger a op attack? That is if the opponent is pushed out of someone’s range without disengaging.
No, because they're not using their own movement to do so. The same applies to the regular Shove action.
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Although the spell doesn't state how big the creature can be, I would suggest to follow the Shove information, which states the creature cannot be more than 1 size larger than you.
Although the spell doesn't state how big the creature can be, I would suggest to follow the Shove information, which states the creature cannot be more than 1 size larger than you.
It is a feat, and not a spell. And absent a written size restriction, it doesn't have a size restriction.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Although the spell doesn't state how big the creature can be, I would suggest to follow the Shove information, which states the creature cannot be more than 1 size larger than you.
It is a feat, and not a spell. And absent a written size restriction, it doesn't have a size restriction.
With ref to your footer, "RAW<RAI. You let a badly written rule dictate your play? Play as intended." questions can potentially still be pondered about what was intended.
However, gaining answers to those questions might require the telepathic feat.
RAW the mechanics of telekinetic don't have any size restriction. However, if a DM homebrewed a ruling that telekinetic could not shove, say, a gargantuan creature, such as a dragon turtle, tarasque, or kraken, I wouldn't object.
However, gaining answers to those questions might require the telepathic feat.
Not really, I think this quote from the SAC about a feature with similar effects says more than enough to divine the intent.
Can the monk’s Open Hand Technique push a Large or larger creature or knock it prone?
The Open Hand Technique intentionally ignores creature size. A monk’s ki fuels many extraordinary effects! If a feature is limited by creature size, the feature tells you so.
However, if a DM homebrewed a ruling that telekinetic could not shove, say, a gargantuan creature, such as a dragon turtle, tarasque, or kraken, I wouldn't object.
I have a few questions for the collective gathered here. When it says "If you already know this spell, its range increases by 30 feet when you cast it." does that also increase the range of the push and pull ability by 30ft? Does it increase the amount that you can move the hand in a turn by 30ft? Does this stack with Mage Hand Legerdemain?
Thanks in advance
1) "Does this increase the range of push and pull". No.
Features with explicit limitations aren't changed unless explicitly altered.
2) "Mage hand movement". No.
No change to functionality unless explicitly mentioned.
3) "Does this stack with Mage Hand Legerdemain". Yes.
Mage Hand Legerdemain does not specify a range, so it assumes whatever range your spell is capable of.
1) Does not say anything about increasing the ability to shove and I see no reason to do that.
2. Nor does it affect the hand's speed.
3) The range should affect every variant of Mage Hand, including Legerdemain.
The increased range means that you can make the hand initially appear up to 60ft away from you. By necessity, it should also change the text in mage hand from "The hand vanishes if it is ever more than 30 feet away from you", to now read 60ft - as otherwise the range increase does nothing at all.
so with this feat removing the sematic and verbal components of the spell does that mean you cast it at will? and does it still require an action to cast? or is it cast as part of the bonus action used to push or pull a target?
It still requires a full action to cast. Aside from also being included along with Push/Pull in the feat, Mage Hand is completely separate and the two features do not interact in any meaningful way. The removal of Vocal and Somatic components to Mage Hand simply means that the character can essentially move objects with their mind without necessarily gesturing or saying anything, but it's still a full action to do so.
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It is a cantrip, so yes you can cast it at will.
Yes it still requires an action (because nothing says it doesn't).
The push/pull bonus action is separate and does not use the mage hand at all.
i was under the impression that the push/pull was done with the invisible mage hand? is that not so?
Doesn't say it is.
i suppose thats RAW vs RAI
I don't see how or why it would be intended for you to spend an action to cast mage hand then spend a bonus action to move someone 5 feet.
so its intended to be able to do the push/pull every round? so out of combat you can just spam force pushes every 6 seconds? thats the only thing that makes me question it
Yes? You can also shove something 5 feet every 6 seconds without the feat using your hands (even multiple times per 6 seconds with extra attack).
The funny thing about the Telekinetic feat is, RAW, there's no stated size limitation on your ability to shove creatures... even the Telekinesis spell limits its ability to a Huge or smaller creature. However, Telekinetic Feat cannot be used to shove objects... for moving objects you can use the Mage Hand cantrip, but you're stuck with the limitations of that spell... so even though you can yank a Kraken 5 feet toward yourself, you can't use that same feat to move a single set of Heavy Armor. Just one of many spells or abilities that works the way it does for game balance purposes, even if it leads to some serious logical conundrums.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Would a shove with a telekinetic hand if successfully done trigger a op attack? That is if the opponent is pushed out of someone’s range without disengaging.
No, because they're not using their own movement to do so. The same applies to the regular Shove action.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Although the spell doesn't state how big the creature can be, I would suggest to follow the Shove information, which states the creature cannot be more than 1 size larger than you.
It is a feat, and not a spell. And absent a written size restriction, it doesn't have a size restriction.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
With ref to your footer, "RAW<RAI. You let a badly written rule dictate your play? Play as intended." questions can potentially still be pondered about what was intended.
However, gaining answers to those questions might require the telepathic feat.
RAW the mechanics of telekinetic don't have any size restriction. However, if a DM homebrewed a ruling that telekinetic could not shove, say, a gargantuan creature, such as a dragon turtle, tarasque, or kraken, I wouldn't object.
Not really, I think this quote from the SAC about a feature with similar effects says more than enough to divine the intent.
That said....
Neither would I tbh.