Had an instance where a character was grappled by an Ankheg. A sorcerer in the party with the telekenetic feat (from Tasha's) wanted to use the bonus action to shove the character 5 feet. The sorcerer would target the grappled character (not the Ankheg) who would willingly fail their roll and be moved 5 feet effectively breaking the grapple by ending up out of range of the Ankheg.
This situation appears to be a "get out of grapple free" card as a bonus action as there is no piece of the interaction in which the creature doing the grappling has any chance to maintain a hold, regardless of how capable they are.
On the fly we ended up ruling the sorcerer would need to target the Ankheg to try to move it to free the character from the grapple but I'm struggling with that conceptually as well (why would shoving the Ankheg mean the Ankheg releases the bite/grapple). I thought a solution may be some combination of telekinesis not working on creatures with 0 mv and/or shoving grappling/grappled creatures moves both but that may open up a different can of worms? Anyhow I've been going in loops and would appreciate some other points of view.
Thanks in advance!
Telekinetic (Tasha's Cauldron of Everything)
You learn to move things with your mind, granting you the following benefits:
Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
You learn the mage hand cantrip. You can cast it without verbal or somatic components, and you can make the spectral hand invisible. If you already know this spell, its range increases by 30 feet when you cast it. Its spellcasting ability is the ability increased by this feat.
As a bonus action, you can try to telekinetically shove one creature you can see within 30 feet of you. When you do so, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + the ability modifier of the score increased by this feat) or be moved 5 feet toward you or away from you. A creature can willingly fail this save.
Grappled (Basic Rules)
A grappled creature's speed becomes 0, and it can't benefit from any bonus to its speed.
The condition ends if the grappler is incapacitated (see the condition).
The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or grappling effect, such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell.
Yes, these sorts of effects can push a target out of a grapple.
I had a campaign where a warlock had his blast enhanced to optionally push the target up to 10 feet away; so they would blast the grappling monster, knock it back, and this would automatically break the grapple it had on a PC.
Very boring to DM any encounters with monster who specialise in grappling (or have a grab after an attack).
Thanks. I can understand that because at least there is an action being performed against the creature meaning it had to at least be hit in order to lose the grapple.
In the scenario with the new Telekinetic feat, by targeting the PC being grappled and having them automatically fail their save, then get moved 5 feet and break the grapple. So a broken grapple without the need of any kind of attack/save/grapple...well...anything. As a bonus action.
You'd have to have some very specific positioning to push the target 5 feet away from the ankheg and still break the grapple. Good on your players figuring that out!
In the scenario with the new Telekinetic feat, by targeting the PC being grappled and having them automatically fail their save, then get moved 5 feet and break the grapple. So a broken grapple without the need of any kind of attack/save/grapple...well...anything. As a bonus action.
I mean, it takes a bonus action. That is 1 less bonus action in the party's action economy. If the monster is getting that grapple for free as part of a damage dealing attack, that still benefits it.
And a lot of times grapples don't change the battle much. If you grapple a melee character, they are still going to be in melee. Though a lot of creatures do gain benefits against grapples characters.
Tweaked scenario - can a character with the telekinesis feat target themselves and move 5 feet as a bonus action and break a grapple that way, essentially functioning as a free teleport at the cost of a bonus cantrip spell? Is that RAI?
Tweaked scenario - can a character with the telekinesis feat target themselves and move 5 feet as a bonus action and break a grapple that way, essentially functioning as a free teleport at the cost of a bonus cantrip spell? Is that RAI?
You can technically target yourself (as a creature you can see), but toward or away from yourself is not a direction you can move.
Maybe you can explode 5 feet in every direction as a bonus action, lol. That would break the grapple and cover the grappler in gore.
Tweaked scenario - can a character with the telekinesis feat target themselves and move 5 feet as a bonus action and break a grapple that way, essentially functioning as a free teleport at the cost of a bonus cantrip spell? Is that RAI?
According to Hoyle, no. You can move something/someone closer to you or away from you, but you cannot ever do that with yourself.
Had an instance where a character was grappled by an Ankheg. A sorcerer in the party with the telekenetic feat (from Tasha's) wanted to use the bonus action to shove the character 5 feet. The sorcerer would target the grappled character (not the Ankheg) who would willingly fail their roll and be moved 5 feet effectively breaking the grapple by ending up out of range of the Ankheg.
This situation appears to be a "get out of grapple free" card as a bonus action as there is no piece of the interaction in which the creature doing the grappling has any chance to maintain a hold, regardless of how capable they are.
On the fly we ended up ruling the sorcerer would need to target the Ankheg to try to move it to free the character from the grapple but I'm struggling with that conceptually as well (why would shoving the Ankheg mean the Ankheg releases the bite/grapple). I thought a solution may be some combination of telekinesis not working on creatures with 0 mv and/or shoving grappling/grappled creatures moves both but that may open up a different can of worms? Anyhow I've been going in loops and would appreciate some other points of view.
Thanks in advance!
Telekinetic (Tasha's Cauldron of Everything)
You learn to move things with your mind, granting you the following benefits:
Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
You learn the mage hand cantrip. You can cast it without verbal or somatic components, and you can make the spectral hand invisible. If you already know this spell, its range increases by 30 feet when you cast it. Its spellcasting ability is the ability increased by this feat.
As a bonus action, you can try to telekinetically shove one creature you can see within 30 feet of you. When you do so, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + the ability modifier of the score increased by this feat) or be moved 5 feet toward you or away from you. A creature can willingly fail this save.
Grappled (Basic Rules)
A grappled creature's speed becomes 0, and it can't benefit from any bonus to its speed.
The condition ends if the grappler is incapacitated (see the condition).
The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or grappling effect, such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell.
This would trigger an Attack of Opportunity since the mouvement is done willingly.
Tweaked scenario - can a character with the telekinesis feat target themselves and move 5 feet as a bonus action and break a grapple that way, essentially functioning as a free teleport at the cost of a bonus cantrip spell? Is that RAI?
No, since you cannot push/pull yourself away from yourself, but if you target the creature grappling you, you might be in a more advantageous position using your spell DC rather than a contested strength/dex check.
This would trigger an Attack of Opportunity since the mouvement is done willingly.
That is incorrect, as you are not using your own movement, as listed in the AoO rules "You also don't provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction."
Tweaked scenario - can a character with the telekinesis feat target themselves and move 5 feet as a bonus action and break a grapple that way, essentially functioning as a free teleport at the cost of a bonus cantrip spell? Is that RAI?
No, since you cannot push/pull yourself away from yourself, but if you target the creature grappling you, you might be in a more advantageous position using your spell DC rather than a contested strength/dex check.
This would trigger an Attack of Opportunity since the mouvement is done willingly.
That is incorrect, as you are not using your own movement, as listed in the AoO rules "You also don't provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction."
Yeah, I was looking in the player book and saw that, was about to delete the post but you were faster than me -_- haha
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Had an instance where a character was grappled by an Ankheg. A sorcerer in the party with the telekenetic feat (from Tasha's) wanted to use the bonus action to shove the character 5 feet. The sorcerer would target the grappled character (not the Ankheg) who would willingly fail their roll and be moved 5 feet effectively breaking the grapple by ending up out of range of the Ankheg.
This situation appears to be a "get out of grapple free" card as a bonus action as there is no piece of the interaction in which the creature doing the grappling has any chance to maintain a hold, regardless of how capable they are.
On the fly we ended up ruling the sorcerer would need to target the Ankheg to try to move it to free the character from the grapple but I'm struggling with that conceptually as well (why would shoving the Ankheg mean the Ankheg releases the bite/grapple). I thought a solution may be some combination of telekinesis not working on creatures with 0 mv and/or shoving grappling/grappled creatures moves both but that may open up a different can of worms? Anyhow I've been going in loops and would appreciate some other points of view.
Thanks in advance!
Telekinetic (Tasha's Cauldron of Everything)
You learn to move things with your mind, granting you the following benefits:
Grappled (Basic Rules)
Yes, these sorts of effects can push a target out of a grapple.
I had a campaign where a warlock had his blast enhanced to optionally push the target up to 10 feet away; so they would blast the grappling monster, knock it back, and this would automatically break the grapple it had on a PC.
Very boring to DM any encounters with monster who specialise in grappling (or have a grab after an attack).
Something like https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/03/11/if-you-shovepush-a-grappler-grappling-an-ally-does-it-break-the-grapple-at-the-cost-of-1-attack/
Thanks. I can understand that because at least there is an action being performed against the creature meaning it had to at least be hit in order to lose the grapple.
In the scenario with the new Telekinetic feat, by targeting the PC being grappled and having them automatically fail their save, then get moved 5 feet and break the grapple. So a broken grapple without the need of any kind of attack/save/grapple...well...anything. As a bonus action.
You'd have to have some very specific positioning to push the target 5 feet away from the ankheg and still break the grapple. Good on your players figuring that out!
I mean, it takes a bonus action. That is 1 less bonus action in the party's action economy. If the monster is getting that grapple for free as part of a damage dealing attack, that still benefits it.
And a lot of times grapples don't change the battle much. If you grapple a melee character, they are still going to be in melee. Though a lot of creatures do gain benefits against grapples characters.
Tweaked scenario - can a character with the telekinesis feat target themselves and move 5 feet as a bonus action and break a grapple that way, essentially functioning as a free teleport at the cost of a bonus cantrip spell? Is that RAI?
You can technically target yourself (as a creature you can see), but toward or away from yourself is not a direction you can move.
Maybe you can explode 5 feet in every direction as a bonus action, lol. That would break the grapple and cover the grappler in gore.
According to Hoyle, no. You can move something/someone closer to you or away from you, but you cannot ever do that with yourself.
This would trigger an Attack of Opportunity since the mouvement is done willingly.
No, since you cannot push/pull yourself away from yourself, but if you target the creature grappling you, you might be in a more advantageous position using your spell DC rather than a contested strength/dex check.
That is incorrect, as you are not using your own movement, as listed in the AoO rules "You also don't provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction."
Yeah, I was looking in the player book and saw that, was about to delete the post but you were faster than me -_- haha