I think you're all being ridiculous. Holy Water is a very widely used item with a SET value. You MUST consume 25 gp worth of silver powder in order to create Holy Water (via the Ceremony spell), so the fact that it doesn't say "Holy Water worth 25 gp" in the description is meaningless. There doesn't EXIST a holy water item that costs less than 25 GP to create, so all Holy Water listed in a spell description must be this holy water item which costs 25 gp! If a component is consumed, the arcane focus CANNOT act as a stand-in. It can mimic the presence of certain items, but your arcane focus cannot mimic the consumption of an item.
A vial of Holy water has a cost, but "powdered silver and iron" does not. If the spell meant you to use 25g worth of either holy water or powdered metals then it should say that. It doesn't say that.
Almost no other spell components are items that exist on the equipment listings. That is not a place you should need to search to infer a component's cost.
You are correct that a component being consumed means it cannot be replaced by a focus, but in this case we have a "consumed" component with no cost, weight or volume provided, so we could be talking about three specks of silver.
I consider the "which the spell consumes" to be a mistake. There's no gold cost, thus there's no consumed component. We play it like you get a bag og metal powder or a flask of holy water and you're good to go without running out.
That is kind of an obnoxious ruling; Yes you need to actually have this powdered metal (or holy water, that it is up to your DM whether or not is prohibitively expensive), but no we won't say what it will cost you, nor even give an amount of powder needed to make it easier for your DM to determine what it will cost to get enough.
I think you're all being ridiculous. Holy Water is a very widely used item with a SET value. You MUST consume 25 gp worth of silver powder in order to create Holy Water (via the Ceremony spell), so the fact that it doesn't say "Holy Water worth 25 gp" in the description is meaningless. There doesn't EXIST a holy water item that costs less than 25 GP to create, so all Holy Water listed in a spell description must be this holy water item which costs 25 gp! If a component is consumed, the arcane focus CANNOT act as a stand-in. It can mimic the presence of certain items, but your arcane focus cannot mimic the consumption of an item.
There's a role that specifies that a spell only consumes an item if it states a gold cost, regardless of what else is stated. Thus the components are not consumed in the spell, even though it says it is. I consider the spell description as erroneous and in need of mending.
Consider a level 1 spell requiring 25gold consumed on each cast. That is insane. I refuse to believe that that is the intended design.
It's worth pointing out as well.... a "holy water" does not have a cost, and isn't a PHB item.
A flask of Holy Water costs 25 gp to buy, but can also be created for 25 gp worth of silver + 1 first-level slot + 1 hour by any cleric or paladin using a "special ritual" which is not a typical Ritual spell at all. There's rules for what it does when used in combat.
A vial of Holy Water can be created using Ceremony cast as a Ritual or with a spell slot by clerics, with a spell slot by paladins, or as a ritual or with spell slots by any other character with access to the spell... but provides no guide as to how many vials=one flask, and has no rules describing its use.
The PHB does describe that a "vial" holds 4 ounces, while a "flask" holds one pint. That suggests it takes 16 4 casts of Ceremony (and 400 100 gp of silver) to create one Holy Water (Flask)...
Protection from Evil and Good requires "Holy Water," but no mention of flasks, vials, splashes, sprinkles, or any other unit of measurement.
Animal Friendship requires a "morsel" of food, but that isn't to say it requires a full 5 sp Ration. Protection from Evil and Good is a little different, since it must consume some amount of Holy Water, but that isn't to say it needs to eat up a whole 25 gp Holy Water (Flask), or even a whole vial of Holy Water created by Ceremony.
No, Mage Armor in 2nd edition did not provide temporary hit points. The Mage Armor would end after you took a certain amount of damage. So, it might be good for 13 hp (damage you would sustain) but once you took more than that, the spell ended.
Just because a spell requires a 25 GP flask of holy water doesn't mean the player has to have 25 GP to buy it. This is where DMs can get creative. In our current campaign, our DM often has rewarded our party with flasks of holy water rather than gold for completing quests for a town or a religious order. So, don't have 25 GP? Go do a favor for the church. Don't let your creativity be limited by currency.
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A vial of Holy water has a cost, but "powdered silver and iron" does not. If the spell meant you to use 25g worth of either holy water or powdered metals then it should say that. It doesn't say that.
Almost no other spell components are items that exist on the equipment listings. That is not a place you should need to search to infer a component's cost.
You are correct that a component being consumed means it cannot be replaced by a focus, but in this case we have a "consumed" component with no cost, weight or volume provided, so we could be talking about three specks of silver.
I consider the "which the spell consumes" to be a mistake. There's no gold cost, thus there's no consumed component. We play it like you get a bag og metal powder or a flask of holy water and you're good to go without running out.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Agreed.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
There's a role that specifies that a spell only consumes an item if it states a gold cost, regardless of what else is stated. Thus the components are not consumed in the spell, even though it says it is. I consider the spell description as erroneous and in need of mending.
Consider a level 1 spell requiring 25gold consumed on each cast. That is insane. I refuse to believe that that is the intended design.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
It's worth pointing out as well.... a "holy water" does not have a cost, and isn't a PHB item.
164 casts of Ceremony (and400100 gp of silver) to create one Holy Water (Flask)...Protection from Evil and Good requires "Holy Water," but no mention of flasks, vials, splashes, sprinkles, or any other unit of measurement.
Animal Friendship requires a "morsel" of food, but that isn't to say it requires a full 5 sp Ration. Protection from Evil and Good is a little different, since it must consume some amount of Holy Water, but that isn't to say it needs to eat up a whole 25 gp Holy Water (Flask), or even a whole vial of Holy Water created by Ceremony.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
No, Mage Armor in 2nd edition did not provide temporary hit points. The Mage Armor would end after you took a certain amount of damage. So, it might be good for 13 hp (damage you would sustain) but once you took more than that, the spell ended.
Just because a spell requires a 25 GP flask of holy water doesn't mean the player has to have 25 GP to buy it. This is where DMs can get creative. In our current campaign, our DM often has rewarded our party with flasks of holy water rather than gold for completing quests for a town or a religious order. So, don't have 25 GP? Go do a favor for the church. Don't let your creativity be limited by currency.