If you know where someone is in heavy obscurement and you attack why should you get disadvantage? They can't defend themselves. They are effectively just standing there. So it should be a normal swing. A little minus because you can't exactly see them and a little plus because they can't defend themselves.
and yes you know where everyone is in heavy obscurement. invisible condition -- "The creature’s Location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves."
If you know where someone is in heavy obscurement and you attack why should you get disadvantage? They can't defend themselves. They are effectively just standing there. So it should be a normal swing. A little minus because you can't exactly see them and a little plus because they can't defend themselves.
I'm not sure who you are arguing with since you didn't quote them and this thread is over a year old and I'm not going to reread the whole thing.
But you are right, if you and the target are both obscured then you are an unseen attacker versus and unseen target and the disadvantage and advantage cancel out per the rules.
It doesn't make logical sense that a blind person can see other blind people, but that is RAW.
and yes you know where everyone is in heavy obscurement. invisible condition -- "The creature’s Location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves."
I mean. You can't see them, so you only have a general idea at best depending on DM. The rules for senses other than vision aren't poorly written, they aren't written at all... Anyway, here is the rules for heavy obscurement:
A heavily obscured area--such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage--blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.
And here are the rules for determining location without sight:
This is why The BA hide action is so important for rogues to take advantage of the obscure area.
Now changing any of the other rules (allowing blind sense to work better or changing the canceling of advantage and disavantage)actively undermines certain other builds. for example the value of a PHB beasmaster ranger where many of the pets have blindsight. The advantage cancelling is also great protection against things like rogues sneak attack or pack tactics.
by messing with the raw rules you actually mess with alot of moving parts of the game and upset value of some abilities and also counter responses to others.
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If you know where someone is in heavy obscurement and you attack why should you get disadvantage? They can't defend themselves. They are effectively just standing there. So it should be a normal swing. A little minus because you can't exactly see them and a little plus because they can't defend themselves.
and yes you know where everyone is in heavy obscurement. invisible condition -- "The creature’s Location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves."
I'm not sure who you are arguing with since you didn't quote them and this thread is over a year old and I'm not going to reread the whole thing.
But you are right, if you and the target are both obscured then you are an unseen attacker versus and unseen target and the disadvantage and advantage cancel out per the rules.
It doesn't make logical sense that a blind person can see other blind people, but that is RAW.
I mean. You can't see them, so you only have a general idea at best depending on DM. The rules for senses other than vision aren't poorly written, they aren't written at all... Anyway, here is the rules for heavy obscurement:
And here are the rules for determining location without sight:
This is why The BA hide action is so important for rogues to take advantage of the obscure area.
Now changing any of the other rules (allowing blind sense to work better or changing the canceling of advantage and disavantage)actively undermines certain other builds. for example the value of a PHB beasmaster ranger where many of the pets have blindsight. The advantage cancelling is also great protection against things like rogues sneak attack or pack tactics.
by messing with the raw rules you actually mess with alot of moving parts of the game and upset value of some abilities and also counter responses to others.