Quote from bobmarray16 >>

Congratulation to your friend he just realised charm person is not a combat spell.

Charm Person is much more niche than I find people seem to think it is.  It's 100% not so niche it's useless, but you need to be in a very specific circumstance where you need someone to regard you as a friendly acquaintance right now and what happens after more than an hour has passed is immaterial.  That's common enough that it absolutely can and will happen, but if you use Charm Person on anyone you expect to still be anywhere near in 60 minutes and 60 seconds, you had better have a specific reason why you think this is a good idea.  Casting it in just about any municipality on Joe Citizen is usually only a good move if a) you're moving on in an hour or less or b)  you want to draw aggro later (like if you want a party member arrested to get them into the jail, or whatever). 

I just made a bard for my partner at medium level, and after reading over the spell choices, I didn't even take Charm Person.  Enhance Ability provides everything Charm Person does except the friendly acquaintance bit, and it just never tells the target magic tomfoolery was afoot.  Plus, it works when socializing with non-humanoids, like vampires, and you don't need to rely on the target failing a save - including you don't need to get your hands on a mechanic for detecting failed saves. 

Quote from quindraco >>

Quote from bobmarray16 >>

Congratulation to your friend he just realised charm person is not a combat spell.

 

Charm Person is much more niche than I find people seem to think it is.  It's 100% not so niche it's useless, but you need to be in a very specific circumstance where you need someone to regard you as a friendly acquaintance right now and what happens after more than an hour has passed is immaterial.  That's common enough that it absolutely can and will happen, but if you use Charm Person on anyone you expect to still be anywhere near in 60 minutes and 60 seconds, you had better have a specific reason why you think this is a good idea.  Casting it in just about any municipality on Joe Citizen is usually only a good move if a) you're moving on in an hour or less or b)  you want to draw aggro later (like if you want a party member arrested to get them into the jail, or whatever). 

I just made a bard for my partner at medium level, and after reading over the spell choices, I didn't even take Charm Person.  Enhance Ability provides everything Charm Person does except the friendly acquaintance bit, and it just never tells the target magic tomfoolery was afoot.  Plus, it works when socializing with non-humanoids, like vampires, and you don't need to rely on the target failing a save - including you don't need to get your hands on a mechanic for detecting failed saves. 

 except that the DCs for social interactions are much higher becauseyou are only persuading things purely without magic.
Sure it gives oyu advantage, but doing that to someone who is say, at best an indifferent target... will still require you to have high DCs of persuasions only to get minimal results if you still beat 20. while charm person actually puts you at friendly, aka the lowest level and will allow you to get much more out of your magic. there is also the fact that charm person can be cast at higher levels and thus add more people into the mix. while your persuasion with advantage can be done on only 1 person at a time.

again, its all about how you use charm person... after the hour, yesit knows you used magic, but its reaction will not necessarily be a bad thing. 
overall, charm person offers you much more then what enhance ability will ever do. but if your DM do not use the social interaction tables from the dungeon masters guide, then i guess your experience is based on that DM.

again the social interaction tables tells the DM how to act with whatever players are trying to accomplish.
its all a matter of risk and reward... charm person gives you bigger reward asa price of a little more risk. while enhance ability gives you no risk but mediocre reward.

In a combat situation, a party is engaging a group of 5 creatures.  The player druid casts charm person on one of five creatures.  Since the druid is considered "friendly acquaintance" and this charmed creature likely have closer bonds with other four creatures currently fighting.  Would it be reasonable to consider this to be enough for this creature to break the charm person spell?  Or perhaps roll cha save every round?

Charm Person only affect the target, which he become friendly towards. How it initially perceives the other PCs remain unchanged so its still indifferent or hostile to them if it was. What Charm Person could do though is put the caster in a favorable position to shift that view toward better outcome.

The real question you forget to ask is the one you should be asking first...

How are others reacting to their comrades suddently becoming friendly to the intruders ?

charm person is still casted by the aster and thus others have seen the caster do its VSM !
meaning the others have seen the hand gestures, they have heard the verbal words used in the casting of the spell.
even the material component was taken out by the caster.

how are any people reacting to that casting ?
the same thing hapenned to my players when they started casting friends on the king and casting guidance on their friend.
the first thing i said was... Roll Initiative !
they were all like... WHAAAA WHYYYYY ??? and i was like, look at any of those spells... you are talking about them not seeing you cast spells blatantly in front of them.
though guidance was cast, and friends was cast... the guards them... they saw the casting and just attacked to protect their king. when the king wondered... the king still saw the casting of guidance while being unaware of the friends spell. what ensued was a big fight to make the guards and king understand that they just wanted to make sure they'd listen to them. the players never understood the point that casting magic is not a silent thing.

you guys have to understand that casting spells, is an endeavor, not a trivial thing.
let alone be a silent thing. this is why sorcerers are good at it, because they have meta magics.
aside form meta magics, the rest of the world still needs to obey the VSM of the spells.

its as simple as that... simple question...
if the recipient of the spell do not know... then how are the others witnessing the casting reacting ?!!
that should be your question since the get go.

I have a bard that loves to cast charm on anything and everything. If combat has already been initiated, ie they've hit the target already or attacked it, can I say that "charm" would not work in that situation as they've already proved hostile? Or can I roll the save with advantage at least?

Quote from Crocpocalypso >>

I have a bard that loves to cast charm on anything and everything. If combat has already been initiated, ie they've hit the target already or attacked it, can I say that "charm" would not work in that situation as they've already proved hostile? Or can I roll the save with advantage at least?

The text of charm person already answers your question: "It must make a Wisdom saving throw, and does so with advantage if you or your companions are fighting it."

Thank you.

Quote from SagaTympana >>

Quote from Crocpocalypso >>

I have a bard that loves to cast charm on anything and everything. If combat has already been initiated, ie they've hit the target already or attacked it, can I say that "charm" would not work in that situation as they've already proved hostile? Or can I roll the save with advantage at least?

 

The text of charm person already answers your question: "It must make a Wisdom saving throw, and does so with advantage if you or your companions are fighting it."

 And if the fight continues, the charm is immediately broken when the charmed creature takes damage.

Regardless, it will still continue attacking everybody else :)

I'm 30 minutes away from running a session of The Sunless Citadel that begins with the party having just charmed Balsak, the bugbear hunter at the entrance to the grove level. The player used Portent to force a fail. I've had weeks to think about how he'll act, and I've decided he'll think his good friend is under some kind of mind control by the invaders. The NPCs on the grove level were alerted to the party's invasion when the party took a long rest after attacking but not killing all the goblins on the citadel level. And Balsaq's just been through a battle with the party. He's far more likely to believe his friend is being coerced than to believe that the party is friendly because a good friend vouched for them. He has his own senses.

Quote from JeffOrc >>

I'm 30 minutes away from running a session of The Sunless Citadel that begins with the party having just charmed Balsak, the bugbear hunter at the entrance to the grove level. The player used Portent to force a fail. I've had weeks to think about how he'll act, and I've decided he'll think his good friend is under some kind of mind control by the invaders. The NPCs on the grove level were alerted to the party's invasion when the party took a long rest after attacking but not killing all the goblins on the citadel level. And Balsaq's just been through a battle with the party. He's far more likely to believe his friend is being coerced than to believe that the party is friendly because a good friend vouched for them. He has his own senses.

 good way of thinking...
charm person doesn't force anything though... it might be weird in his mind that this creature he's friend with suddently wants him to obey the others as well.. i mean... charm person is usually better in a 1 on 1 scenario. when it comes to multiples, its a whole other endeavor. you need to convince the bugbear to help you in your quest and hope it wont crash down. in any cases... the way i handled it when it hapenned not too long ago to me... was that he was ready to help by serving as a guide. around the place... but he had no trust whatsoever in the other "friends" thus you keep them in check or i'll make them check out into the afterlife !

that kind of stuff.
at that point anything the players did was on a tight ledge... a single false step and the whole thing falls down. they were happy it worked in the first place. honestly charms are hard to grasp, but its easy to make consequences for them.

but yeah you got a good way of handling it.

I actually have the perfect example of charm person as a whole from just a few weeks ago.

We just had this situation for my changeling aberrant sorc. There was an old dwarf locked inside his house. I used mage hand to move a curtain to see him. Then cast charm person and used telepathic speech to talk to him. He recognized me and I rolled persuasion with advantage and quite a low dc for him to let me in .

I had turned into a fellow dwarf to enforce this old friends effect. 

He saw my party member and asked who he was. I told him that he was my guide,  a very trustworthy person who could be trusted as much as myself. And that there were two other trustworthy people outside. I rolled persuasion with advantage and he let both of us in. 

Now here is the great twist! He had our enemies in his house and was practically a hostage. He was forced to poison us. 

He gave us coffee and as he seemed nervous, I asked him telepathically if the coffee was safe to drink. He said yes. 

And MINE WAS, but my party member's coffee was poisoned. The old dwarf tried to make me leave to protect me, because I was a friend and he didn't want me to get hurt. He telepathically begged me to leave quickly. And boom, my friend took his first sip and fell down unconscious. 

This is an amazing presentation for charm person. 😄