So, if tieflings are the result of pacts made with demon lords, could a pact with a powerful enough Fey or god produce similar effects. If this is possible, what kinds of features would a Fey child or a child influenced by a celestial pact have?
Tieflings generally aren’t the products of pacts, they are the offspring of a demon and humanoid, or typically the descendant of such offspring. Similarly Aasimar are the descendants of the offspring of gods or “angels” with humanoids. The descendants of an archfey and a humanoid would simply be a Faye. Eladrin and elves are probably good examples with the origin stories deleting the actual female(s) involved and just remembering that they are the “ Blood of Correllon” or of some other archfey.
"To be greeted with stares and whispers, to suffer violence and insult on the street, to see mistrust and fear in every eye: this is the lot of the tiefling. And to twist the knife, tieflings know that this is because a pact struck generations ago infused the essence of Asmodeus — overlord of the Nine Hells — into their bloodline. Their appearance and their nature are not their fault but the result of an ancient sin, for which they and their children and their children’s children will always be held accountable."
You can read it as Asmodeus getting humans to have his children, but it seems a bit more general. Like making pacts corrupted the people and that corruption shows up later. Aasimar fit, but aren't Elves supposed to be much older then humans as a race?
Yes the Tiefling is generally not the result of sexual congress between a fiend and humanoid, or at least not explicitly discussed as such. Those births are called Cambions. Per the PHB Tieflings are basically an expression of the stigma of having done dealings or business or, as you say, pacts with the Infernal. I believe prior editions might have been a broader blanket of fiendish history to include demon lords or at least most games that want to go there just stretch the Tiefling to include dealings with Demon Lords (though Demon Lords as written in the game function very different than Devil's. Devil's achieve domnion largely through persuasion, Demons just take by force, but you could have Tieflings as a product of a demonic incursion on a community).
Aasimar are your Celestial byproduct of a celestial "whatevering" with mortals. For Fey, you might want to look at the Hexblood Gothic lineage and maybe reflavor it a bit. Problem is there are humanoid races that are Fey (Changelings, post MMM for instance) or strongly associated with Fey already (Elves and the MMM goblinoids). There's a Fey touched feat, I'd probalby just suggest running a variant human with that.
What you're talking about are species that some players call "plane touched", Genasi are worth looking at too, they could easily be stretched to a broader Elemental conceit if you wanted.
Yeah, Aasimar definitely feel like they are designed to be the antithesis to the Tiefling race, but as far as Fey goes, I’m thinking either Hexblood or even satyrs might work? Imagine having a half-goat child because your great great grandpa made that deal with that Archfey that one time.
Agreed, WOtC is never going to come right out and say it’s sexual congress so I suppose you can think of it being some fool weak willed warlock back along the line somewhere.
I think that Asmodeus (no longer the only fiendish source of Tiefling bloodlines but once was) being Lawful would create some consistency in Infernal-touched bloodlines (horns and tail and skin and eyes and teeth). Same with Celestial-touched bloodlines.
I imagine that Fey-touched bloodlines could produce inconsistent results. Instead of a single type of progeny, we're looking at a possible range of Fey-based offspring—maybe a Satyr for one family and a Changeling for another family.
Meh. Make it up as you go. The rules for one realm don't need to apply to all realms. Heck. The written rules for a realm arearen't written in stone anyway.
(I use "touched bloodline" to mean some kind of influence but not necessarily direct genetic mixing. A pact is an option of introducing something into a bloodline. So many stories about a curse being carried down the bloodlines until it surfaces again...)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Agreed, WOtC is never going to come right out and say it’s sexual congress so I suppose you can think of it being some fool weak willed warlock back along the line somewhere.
No, but TSR did back in the day. The original 2e tieflings were IIRC, second generation descendants from what we now call fiends (demons and/or devils). Devil + mortal = Cambion/Alu Fiend. Cambion/Alu Fiend + mortal = tiefling if I remember it correctly. It's been a long time since I had a copy of the old planewalkers guide to look at.
4e retconned (to an extent) when they promoted Asmodeus to godhood and turned all existing tieflings into Asmodean style tieflings. But they never said the old way was no longer possible, and in fact the devilish bloodlines listed in the now obsolete Tome of Foes implies it's still a possibility.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Agreed, WOtC is never going to come right out and say it’s sexual congress so I suppose you can think of it being some fool weak willed warlock back along the line somewhere.
No, but TSR did back in the day. The original 2e tieflings were IIRC, second generation descendants from what we now call fiends (demons and/or devils). Devil + mortal = Cambion/Alu Fiend. Cambion/Alu Fiend + mortal = tiefling if I remember it correctly. It's been a long time since I had a copy of the old planewalkers guide to look at.
Tieflings in 2nd Edition were mostly the descendants of Tanar'ri (demons). Most Baatizu (devils) weren't capable of sexual reproduction: they had the equipment but were infertile because the Infernal Bureaucracy insisted that all devils come about only by the act of promoting a lemure that must then make its way up the ranks. According to the Planescape sourcebook Faces of Evil: The Fiends, anyway. I think there were a few other books that might have contradicted that.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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So, if tieflings are the result of pacts made with demon lords, could a pact with a powerful enough Fey or god produce similar effects. If this is possible, what kinds of features would a Fey child or a child influenced by a celestial pact have?
Tieflings generally aren’t the products of pacts, they are the offspring of a demon and humanoid, or typically the descendant of such offspring. Similarly Aasimar are the descendants of the offspring of gods or “angels” with humanoids. The descendants of an archfey and a humanoid would simply be a Faye. Eladrin and elves are probably good examples with the origin stories deleting the actual female(s) involved and just remembering that they are the “ Blood of Correllon” or of some other archfey.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
From the PHB
"To be greeted with stares and whispers, to suffer violence and insult on the street, to see mistrust and fear in every eye: this is the lot of the tiefling. And to twist the knife, tieflings know that this is because a pact struck generations ago infused the essence of Asmodeus — overlord of the Nine Hells — into their bloodline. Their appearance and their nature are not their fault but the result of an ancient sin, for which they and their children and their children’s children will always be held accountable."
You can read it as Asmodeus getting humans to have his children, but it seems a bit more general. Like making pacts corrupted the people and that corruption shows up later. Aasimar fit, but aren't Elves supposed to be much older then humans as a race?
Yes the Tiefling is generally not the result of sexual congress between a fiend and humanoid, or at least not explicitly discussed as such. Those births are called Cambions. Per the PHB Tieflings are basically an expression of the stigma of having done dealings or business or, as you say, pacts with the Infernal. I believe prior editions might have been a broader blanket of fiendish history to include demon lords or at least most games that want to go there just stretch the Tiefling to include dealings with Demon Lords (though Demon Lords as written in the game function very different than Devil's. Devil's achieve domnion largely through persuasion, Demons just take by force, but you could have Tieflings as a product of a demonic incursion on a community).
Aasimar are your Celestial byproduct of a celestial "whatevering" with mortals. For Fey, you might want to look at the Hexblood Gothic lineage and maybe reflavor it a bit. Problem is there are humanoid races that are Fey (Changelings, post MMM for instance) or strongly associated with Fey already (Elves and the MMM goblinoids). There's a Fey touched feat, I'd probalby just suggest running a variant human with that.
What you're talking about are species that some players call "plane touched", Genasi are worth looking at too, they could easily be stretched to a broader Elemental conceit if you wanted.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Yeah, Aasimar definitely feel like they are designed to be the antithesis to the Tiefling race, but as far as Fey goes, I’m thinking either Hexblood or even satyrs might work? Imagine having a half-goat child because your great great grandpa made that deal with that Archfey that one time.
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Agreed, WOtC is never going to come right out and say it’s sexual congress so I suppose you can think of it being some fool weak willed warlock back along the line somewhere.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
If you're looking for a fey/mortal cross, I think you need look no further than the revised Changling from Monsters of the Multiverse.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I think that Asmodeus (no longer the only fiendish source of Tiefling bloodlines but once was) being Lawful would create some consistency in Infernal-touched bloodlines (horns and tail and skin and eyes and teeth). Same with Celestial-touched bloodlines.
I imagine that Fey-touched bloodlines could produce inconsistent results. Instead of a single type of progeny, we're looking at a possible range of Fey-based offspring—maybe a Satyr for one family and a Changeling for another family.
Meh. Make it up as you go. The rules for one realm don't need to apply to all realms. Heck. The written rules for a realm
arearen't written in stone anyway.(I use "touched bloodline" to mean some kind of influence but not necessarily direct genetic mixing. A pact is an option of introducing something into a bloodline. So many stories about a curse being carried down the bloodlines until it surfaces again...)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
No, but TSR did back in the day. The original 2e tieflings were IIRC, second generation descendants from what we now call fiends (demons and/or devils). Devil + mortal = Cambion/Alu Fiend. Cambion/Alu Fiend + mortal = tiefling if I remember it correctly. It's been a long time since I had a copy of the old planewalkers guide to look at.
4e retconned (to an extent) when they promoted Asmodeus to godhood and turned all existing tieflings into Asmodean style tieflings. But they never said the old way was no longer possible, and in fact the devilish bloodlines listed in the now obsolete Tome of Foes implies it's still a possibility.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Tieflings in 2nd Edition were mostly the descendants of Tanar'ri (demons). Most Baatizu (devils) weren't capable of sexual reproduction: they had the equipment but were infertile because the Infernal Bureaucracy insisted that all devils come about only by the act of promoting a lemure that must then make its way up the ranks. According to the Planescape sourcebook Faces of Evil: The Fiends, anyway. I think there were a few other books that might have contradicted that.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.