Yes, I would make sure the group I am playing with would be okay with this rule. Most people that I play with actually dislike playing elves and one of my players was the one who suggested this so most of them probably wouldn't care. Still, if someone really likes playing elves, I wouldn't take the option away from them.
you could make these noble and powerful elf's the elders in society and elves have to prove themselves in order to become one of these legendary creatures. tthat way there is the common elves of society and ancient awe inspiring elves
you could make these noble and powerful elf's the elders in society and elves have to prove themselves in order to become one of these legendary creatures. that way there is the common elves of society and ancient awe inspiring elves
D&D is not LotR. Yes, it's heavily inspired by LotR. But even if it was LotR, elves should be a playable race, because Legolas is in the Fellowship, and the Fellowship is the party of LotR (until it splits, at least). Yes, elves are somewhat exotic in Tolkien, but adventurers are not ordinary people, so it's to be expected that adventurers sometimes come from unusual backgrounds.
And the main thing is that D&D is for players. Players getting to play out their fantasy is the main thing, not world building self-consistence. Players want to play elves, and it doesn't break the game, so elves are a playable race.
But your compromise is fine. If you want to say that in your world elves are reclusive beings almost never encountered by mortal men, but half-elves are encountered, that's fine. I'd probably give players the choice between elf and half-elf mechanics in that case.
What do players like about elves? I like imagining them as an ancient, mystical race of strange creatures of unearthly beauty and strength. This doesn't work well in how dnd is now, that is why I want to use them differently. But for those people who enjoy playing elves, what do you like about them and how do you roleplay them? I would like to see how others use them because so far all I have ever seen are pointy eared humans.
What do players like about elves? I like imagining them as an ancient, mystical race of strange creatures of unearthly beauty and strength. This doesn't work well in how dnd is now, that is why I want to use them differently. But for those people who enjoy playing elves, what do you like about them and how do you roleplay them? I would like to see how others use them because so far all I have ever seen are pointy eared humans.
Plenty of folks in this thread have pointed out to you that your plans are perfectly reasonable, and that you are free to do whatever you want with elves in your own setting. If you're looking for more validation than that, I don't know how to give it to you and I don't think you're going to find it here.
D&D players enjoy playing elves because there are 50 years of team-built lore and mechanics detailing two dozen or more distinct elven cultures that are specific to Dungeons & Dragons. The D&D elf is its own concept, in 2023; it has most likely seen more purposeful, focused development than any other version of the idea, and does not need to stand on the shoulders of any prior art to have substantial value unto itself.
And because D&D is a game, a major part of that value has always been that elves are represented by a number of player-accessible races, intentionally designed so as to not outperform any other playable race.
You are welcome and indeed encouraged to make of elves whatever you want, in your personal experience of D&D. You would not be the first dungeon master to disallow playable elves for exactly the reason you describe. But if your impression of D&D elves is that they are "pointy-eared humans" simply because they are not manifest angels as Tolkien envisioned them, that is extremely unfortunate. You are not giving the D&D library the attention or respect it deserves.
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
I am not looking for more validation for this idea, I just wanted to see how other people roleplay their elves. All the elves I have seen act like humans, but this isn't just the players I play with, the Dnd campaigns that I have read and played in don't treat them much differently. All the elves I have seen, could have easily had their race switched to human and it wouldn't have made a difference. I was just wondering if anybody else had seen or done a character who had some good roleplay moments that differentiated them from a normal human.
Elves are too cool for school. I think making them an unplayable race is a dealbreaker. Well, obviously not a dealbreaker; I'd still play D&D. Nevertheless, D&D without the option to play an elf character is like Stranger Things without Eleven, Chess without a Queen, Harry Potter without a Hermione, or LOTR without Gandalf. Maybe I'm too much an old-school traditionalist, but the option to play elves sits at the heart of D&D. The option to play a long-lived, advanced, even haughty race gives us short-sighted, instant-gratification-focused humans something to which we can aspire.
From writers like Sidney, we often hear that literature is supposed to focus on the ideal, the "what could be," the possibilities; the option to play creatures like elves gives us that "what if." What if I could spend a thousand years influencing a cultural group or a small region? What if living for a millennium could create the opportunity to maintain economic or social stability, or, alternatively, to right the wrongs that will lead to that stability? This is the benefit of playing a race like elves, right? It gives us the opportunity to participate in an identity that can affect long-term, meaningful change. As humans our lives are too short, too fleeting to see the change we might create in the world. Playing a race, even in a fantasy game, that gives us the opportunity to see that change, to see how it works in the world, justifies working for that change in the real world.
Ok. Enough soap-boxing. This is probably the most serious I've been about D&D ever, in the history of the game. But, I love the option to play elves, and I'd hate to lose it.
Elves are too cool for school. I think making them an unplayable race is a dealbreaker. Well, obviously not a dealbreaker; I'd still play D&D. Nevertheless, D&D without the option to play an elf character is like Stranger Things without Eleven, Chess without a Queen, Harry Potter without a Hermione, or LOTR without Gandalf. Maybe I'm too much an old-school traditionalist, but the option to play elves sits at the heart of D&D. The option to play a long-lived, advanced, even haughty race gives us short-sighted, instant-gratification-focused humans something to which we can aspire.
From writers like Sidney, we often hear that literature is supposed to focus on the ideal, the "what could be," the possibilities; the option to play creatures like elves gives us that "what if." What if I could spend a thousand years influencing a cultural group or a small region? What if living for a millennium could create the opportunity to maintain economic or social stability, or, alternatively, to right the wrongs that will lead to that stability? This is the benefit of playing a race like elves, right? It gives us the opportunity to participate in an identity that can affect long-term, meaningful change. As humans our lives are too short, too fleeting to see the change we might create in the world. Playing a race, even in a fantasy game, that gives us the opportunity to see that change, to see how it works in the world, justifies working for that change in the real world.
Ok. Enough soap-boxing. This is probably the most serious I've been about D&D ever, in the history of the game. But, I love the option to play elves, and I'd hate to lose it.
Yeah, any species that comes with a backstory with roots in a rich fantasy literature tradition should be playable. They offer great archetypes for role playing. If aarakocra should be a species, elf should too. Aarakocra have maybe more unique abilities, but their backstory is kind of weak sauce specific to Forgotten Realms, and not to my knowledge based on any deep well of bird-people folklore.
Elves are too cool for school. I think making them an unplayable race is a dealbreaker. Well, obviously not a dealbreaker; I'd still play D&D. Nevertheless, D&D without the option to play an elf character is like Stranger Things without Eleven, Chess without a Queen, Harry Potter without a Hermione, or LOTR without Gandalf. Maybe I'm too much an old-school traditionalist, but the option to play elves sits at the heart of D&D. The option to play a long-lived, advanced, even haughty race gives us short-sighted, instant-gratification-focused humans something to which we can aspire.
From writers like Sidney, we often hear that literature is supposed to focus on the ideal, the "what could be," the possibilities; the option to play creatures like elves gives us that "what if." What if I could spend a thousand years influencing a cultural group or a small region? What if living for a millennium could create the opportunity to maintain economic or social stability, or, alternatively, to right the wrongs that will lead to that stability? This is the benefit of playing a race like elves, right? It gives us the opportunity to participate in an identity that can affect long-term, meaningful change. As humans our lives are too short, too fleeting to see the change we might create in the world. Playing a race, even in a fantasy game, that gives us the opportunity to see that change, to see how it works in the world, justifies working for that change in the real world.
Ok. Enough soap-boxing. This is probably the most serious I've been about D&D ever, in the history of the game. But, I love the option to play elves, and I'd hate to lose it.
Yeah, any species that comes with a backstory with roots in a rich fantasy literature tradition should be playable. They offer great archetypes for role playing. If aarakocra should be a species, elf should too. Aarakocra have maybe more unique abilities, but their backstory is kind of weak sauce specific to Forgotten Realms, and not to my knowledge based on any deep well of bird-people folklore.
Aarakocra are playable, but they are often not allowed in many settings and by certain DMs because they can be mechanically game breaking. Elves should be a playable race too, but I think it would be more interesting if several settings did not allow them and if Dnd came out with some more high level elf statblocks with more interesting lore and abilities so that those who want to play them as mystical, otherworldly beings can do so. (Also aarakocra do have some weak backstory lore but they could be used to play something like a Tengu or just for those who want to be bird people.)
I think that it could add a lot to the world, but I think you would need to make the elven population way smaller in the world so that the players don't feel like they are randomly missing out on a playable race
I once had a oneshot setting that was a scaled down dnd. The strongest people were lvl 10 equivalent and the players were all remarkable wizards at lvl 8.
They had legends about Fey Elves from ages ago, who were the original masters of the realm. They were immortal and beautiful and far exceeded lvl 10, some reaching lvl 20. They were the superior race until they left.
Elves of the kind that live in trees and bake cookies or live in remote snowy villages and build toys or live in a magically isolated forest making candy or live in a slum suburb being sad that they are no longer making candy? Nah. Not playable.
(Not related to gnomes who silently watch people's lawns.)
I'd be curious if there was a way to integrate those little elves as 5e elves with the existing 5e elves also as 5e elves. What is the relation between them? How did they diverge? How do they view each other? Etc.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Elves of the kind that live in trees and bake cookies or live in remote snowy villages and build toys or live in a magically isolated forest making candy or live in a slum suburb being sad that they are no longer making candy? Nah. Not playable.
(Not related to gnomes who silently watch people's lawns.)
I'd be curious if there was a way to integrate those little elves as 5e elves with the existing 5e elves also as 5e elves. What is the relation between them? How did they diverge? How do they view each other? Etc.
I have thought about this. Little elves are basically Dnd's gnomes. We have forest gnomes for the kind that live in trees and bake cookies, and the ones that live in snowy villages building toys work fine as rock gnomes. Dnd elves are nothing like the little elven folk, but gnomes work perfectly.
Yes, I would make sure the group I am playing with would be okay with this rule. Most people that I play with actually dislike playing elves and one of my players was the one who suggested this so most of them probably wouldn't care. Still, if someone really likes playing elves, I wouldn't take the option away from them.
you could make these noble and powerful elf's the elders in society and elves have to prove themselves in order to become one of these legendary creatures. tthat way there is the common elves of society and ancient awe inspiring elves
That's not a bad idea.
D&D is not LotR. Yes, it's heavily inspired by LotR. But even if it was LotR, elves should be a playable race, because Legolas is in the Fellowship, and the Fellowship is the party of LotR (until it splits, at least). Yes, elves are somewhat exotic in Tolkien, but adventurers are not ordinary people, so it's to be expected that adventurers sometimes come from unusual backgrounds.
And the main thing is that D&D is for players. Players getting to play out their fantasy is the main thing, not world building self-consistence. Players want to play elves, and it doesn't break the game, so elves are a playable race.
But your compromise is fine. If you want to say that in your world elves are reclusive beings almost never encountered by mortal men, but half-elves are encountered, that's fine. I'd probably give players the choice between elf and half-elf mechanics in that case.
What do players like about elves? I like imagining them as an ancient, mystical race of strange creatures of unearthly beauty and strength. This doesn't work well in how dnd is now, that is why I want to use them differently. But for those people who enjoy playing elves, what do you like about them and how do you roleplay them? I would like to see how others use them because so far all I have ever seen are pointy eared humans.
Plenty of folks in this thread have pointed out to you that your plans are perfectly reasonable, and that you are free to do whatever you want with elves in your own setting. If you're looking for more validation than that, I don't know how to give it to you and I don't think you're going to find it here.
D&D players enjoy playing elves because there are 50 years of team-built lore and mechanics detailing two dozen or more distinct elven cultures that are specific to Dungeons & Dragons. The D&D elf is its own concept, in 2023; it has most likely seen more purposeful, focused development than any other version of the idea, and does not need to stand on the shoulders of any prior art to have substantial value unto itself.
And because D&D is a game, a major part of that value has always been that elves are represented by a number of player-accessible races, intentionally designed so as to not outperform any other playable race.
You are welcome and indeed encouraged to make of elves whatever you want, in your personal experience of D&D. You would not be the first dungeon master to disallow playable elves for exactly the reason you describe. But if your impression of D&D elves is that they are "pointy-eared humans" simply because they are not manifest angels as Tolkien envisioned them, that is extremely unfortunate. You are not giving the D&D library the attention or respect it deserves.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
I am not looking for more validation for this idea, I just wanted to see how other people roleplay their elves. All the elves I have seen act like humans, but this isn't just the players I play with, the Dnd campaigns that I have read and played in don't treat them much differently. All the elves I have seen, could have easily had their race switched to human and it wouldn't have made a difference. I was just wondering if anybody else had seen or done a character who had some good roleplay moments that differentiated them from a normal human.
Elves are too cool for school. I think making them an unplayable race is a dealbreaker. Well, obviously not a dealbreaker; I'd still play D&D. Nevertheless, D&D without the option to play an elf character is like Stranger Things without Eleven, Chess without a Queen, Harry Potter without a Hermione, or LOTR without Gandalf. Maybe I'm too much an old-school traditionalist, but the option to play elves sits at the heart of D&D. The option to play a long-lived, advanced, even haughty race gives us short-sighted, instant-gratification-focused humans something to which we can aspire.
From writers like Sidney, we often hear that literature is supposed to focus on the ideal, the "what could be," the possibilities; the option to play creatures like elves gives us that "what if." What if I could spend a thousand years influencing a cultural group or a small region? What if living for a millennium could create the opportunity to maintain economic or social stability, or, alternatively, to right the wrongs that will lead to that stability? This is the benefit of playing a race like elves, right? It gives us the opportunity to participate in an identity that can affect long-term, meaningful change. As humans our lives are too short, too fleeting to see the change we might create in the world. Playing a race, even in a fantasy game, that gives us the opportunity to see that change, to see how it works in the world, justifies working for that change in the real world.
Ok. Enough soap-boxing. This is probably the most serious I've been about D&D ever, in the history of the game. But, I love the option to play elves, and I'd hate to lose it.
Walks in [insert absurd situation].
Honorary Leader in the Pixie Peewee Powderpuff Pals!
Yeah, any species that comes with a backstory with roots in a rich fantasy literature tradition should be playable. They offer great archetypes for role playing. If aarakocra should be a species, elf should too. Aarakocra have maybe more unique abilities, but their backstory is kind of weak sauce specific to Forgotten Realms, and not to my knowledge based on any deep well of bird-people folklore.
Aarakocra are playable, but they are often not allowed in many settings and by certain DMs because they can be mechanically game breaking. Elves should be a playable race too, but I think it would be more interesting if several settings did not allow them and if Dnd came out with some more high level elf statblocks with more interesting lore and abilities so that those who want to play them as mystical, otherworldly beings can do so. (Also aarakocra do have some weak backstory lore but they could be used to play something like a Tengu or just for those who want to be bird people.)
I think that it could add a lot to the world, but I think you would need to make the elven population way smaller in the world so that the players don't feel like they are randomly missing out on a playable race
I once had a oneshot setting that was a scaled down dnd. The strongest people were lvl 10 equivalent and the players were all remarkable wizards at lvl 8.
They had legends about Fey Elves from ages ago, who were the original masters of the realm. They were immortal and beautiful and far exceeded lvl 10, some reaching lvl 20. They were the superior race until they left.
Playable elves were of a weaker, later bloodline.
Finland GMT/UTC +2
Elves of the kind that live in trees and bake cookies or live in remote snowy villages and build toys or live in a magically isolated forest making candy or live in a slum suburb being sad that they are no longer making candy? Nah. Not playable.
(Not related to gnomes who silently watch people's lawns.)
I'd be curious if there was a way to integrate those little elves as 5e elves with the existing 5e elves also as 5e elves. What is the relation between them? How did they diverge? How do they view each other? Etc.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I have thought about this. Little elves are basically Dnd's gnomes. We have forest gnomes for the kind that live in trees and bake cookies, and the ones that live in snowy villages building toys work fine as rock gnomes. Dnd elves are nothing like the little elven folk, but gnomes work perfectly.