I know that crystal Spheres are no longer in D&D, but Dungeon of the Mad Mage references crystal spheres and the old 2e Spelljammer a couple of times (obviously because it was written before 5e's Spelljammer).
Hypothetically, if I were to run some Spelljammer stuff later on in the same campaign, how would I keep things consistent? Should I just keep the crystal spheres from 2e, and use everything else from the new Spelljammer?
Just go with the new spelljammer stuff and change the crystal sphere references to wildspace references. (Or, leave them in as being written before the spellplague and second sundering and are no longer accurate as your players would eventually find out.
I'm going to break with my own tradition here and suggest that crystal spheres aren't actually the completely awful idea; the completely awful idea was their implementation in AD&D2.
The reason I say this is only because there's something big missing from the new Spelljammer material, and that is any kind of explanation regarding the 'transition' between Wildspace and the Astral Sea. It just happens, automatically, and that is both deeply boring and inconsistent with existing lore. It also begs the question of whether Wildspace continues beyond the transition. It absolutely does -- there is only one Material Plane, not a series of bubbles floating in the Astral -- but the way it is written is going to confuse newer dungeon masters and players, and that's a shame.
What there should be is some kind of hard boundary, and a crystal sphere would provide that.
The key, though, is that it shouldn't require resources. That's where AD&D2 went wrong. Just make the limited plane shift an additional function of the spelljamming helm.
What I would do is make the crystal spheres impenetrable by any known means, requiring spelljammers to plane shift into the Astral Sea in order to continue their journey. This has the added benefit of being mysterious. What is beyond the crystal spheres? Who built them? Are they keeping us in, or something else out? Crystal can be transparent, so it does not interfere with having normal stars, if that is something you want. Or if you like the lore that some stars are Elder Evils, maybe they are why the spheres are protecting the worlds.
TL;DR: crystal spheres are actually a somewhat compelling fantasy idea, provided you don't associate crossing them with high-level resource costs and do not use the phlogiston in any way because blech.
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Just go with the new spelljammer stuff and change the crystal sphere references to wildspace references. (Or, leave them in as being written before the spellplague and second sundering and are no longer accurate as your players would eventually find out.
My players have already found the dead wyvern with bits of crystal sphere lodged in it. That, and I really like the old Spelljammer crystal spheres and phlogiston (even if the phlogiston is ultimately a bad idea)
I like the idea that the changes to Spelljammer were because of the Spellplague, but it'd be a little weird since (as far as I know) the Spellplague was only a thing in Forgotten Realms/Realmspace
TL;DR: crystal spheres are actually a somewhat compelling fantasy idea, provided you don't associate crossing them with high-level resource costs and do not use the phlogiston in any way because blech.
I didn't actually know that going through a crystal sphere required much of a resource.
If I do introduce Spelljammer, it won't be for quite some time, as the party is 5th level and is currently in Undermountain. As I mentioned, I love the phlogiston but I realise that it's actually a really bad idea in terms of game design. I'll probably use crystal spheres but not phlogiston, that is if I actually end up doing Spelljammer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Nothing says that those pieces aren’t a fossil of an earlier system that no longer applies. According to FR lore the blue fire of the spellplague burned out the crystal spheres and phlogiston. The presence of shattered remnants in a wyvern in Undermountain just represent a piece that was somehow untouched - quite possibly because it was in Undermountain. It can be a historic trace and clue/proof of what once was. As for Phlogiston (and relic crystal spheres) if you have the 1-3.x books you could always have the party encounter a world still running under those rules enclosed by a zone of phlogiston and a crystal sphere that was never touched by the spellplague - I know there are lots of just such campaigns still out there. Might be interesting to have the players have to back translate their characters to an earlier version as they cross into the new world.
Nothing says that those pieces aren’t a fossil of an earlier system that no longer applies. According to FR lore the blue fire of the spellplague burned out the crystal spheres and phlogiston. The presence of shattered remnants in a wyvern in Undermountain just represent a piece that was somehow untouched - quite possibly because it was in Undermountain. It can be a historic trace and clue/proof of what once was. As for Phlogiston (and relic crystal spheres) if you have the 1-3.x books you could always have the party encounter a world still running under those rules enclosed by a zone of phlogiston and a crystal sphere that was never touched by the spellplague - I know there are lots of just such campaigns still out there. Might be interesting to have the players have to back translate their characters to an earlier version as they cross into the new world.
I only have 5e books, but I love the idea that different/older worlds still work on the systems of old editions. Might steal that idea if the party somehow finds their way to the setting for my RPG.
Interesting about the Spellplague destroying the phlogiston and crystal spheres. Might you have a link to the lore?
I didn't actually know that going through a crystal sphere required much of a resource.
If I do introduce Spelljammer, it won't be for quite some time, as the party is 5th level and is currently in Undermountain. As I mentioned, I love the phlogiston but I realise that it's actually a really bad idea in terms of game design. I'll probably use crystal spheres but not phlogiston, that is if I actually end up doing Spelljammer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dungeon of the Mad Mage does have a great (and historically canonical) link to Spelljammer, though, in Stardock. Floor 16! Keep an eye out!
If you like the phlogiston, use it! Just don't let it get in the way of your players' fun. Who knows, maybe they will enjoy fighting against currents that prevent them from going where they want and carefully managing all possible ignition sources aboard their vessel. ;) Something I'd forgotten about the phlogiston is that it is also exclusively extraplanar -- it's not connected to any other planes, and cannot be connected to them. You can't even use a bag of holding while you are there. Ugh, Pholtus take the wheel.
If I'm being totally honest about crystal spheres, you could cross them for free, but you had to get lucky with timing or keep track of a portal schedule, and it was different for every sphere. At the end of the day, what it was was a bad implementation of a 'mother may I' rule. I don't generally think MMI is a problem in D&D, but this was a particularly bad example. The dungeon master had total control over whether you could pass a crystal sphere for free when you wanted to, or if you had to wait, or if you had to expend a high-level spell. It served no purpose but to delay the adventure. Waiting is not gameplay.
Nothing says that those pieces aren’t a fossil of an earlier system that no longer applies. According to FR lore the blue fire of the spellplague burned out the crystal spheres and phlogiston.
D&D5 does seem to treat the Weave as a universal D&D thing, but the Spellplague certainly wasn't. The Spellplague's effect on the phlogiston appears to be a popular fan theory but I can't find any official verification of it. Do you have a link? I'd like to read the article, if you do.
Agreed that the remnants in Undermountain could easily be understood to not represent the current state of affairs in Wildspace.
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Keep in mind that the spellplague was WOtC explanation for the end of 3.5e for their main supported world (FR) so they have tended to carry over FR “lore” to other worlds that had sort of come and gone. Other supported worlds ( Mystara, Dragonlance, etc ) have (sort of) their own versions (DL basically uses the wars etc and a time jump of over 100 years) but yes you see a lot of FR lore sort of creep into being general d&d lore by accident. anyway, here is the link to the FR wiki page on the spellplague: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Spellplague?so=search
Just so we're clear, that article doesn't mention the phlogiston or crystal spheres at all, and the FR Wiki articles on the phlogiston and crystal spheres don't mention the Spellplague at all. Are you sure this was something you read on FR Wiki?
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
I didn't actually know that going through a crystal sphere required much of a resource.
If I do introduce Spelljammer, it won't be for quite some time, as the party is 5th level and is currently in Undermountain. As I mentioned, I love the phlogiston but I realise that it's actually a really bad idea in terms of game design. I'll probably use crystal spheres but not phlogiston, that is if I actually end up doing Spelljammer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dungeon of the Mad Mage does have a great (and historically canonical) link to Spelljammer, though, in Stardock. Floor 16! Keep an eye out!
If you like the phlogiston, use it! Just don't let it get in the way of your players' fun. Who knows, maybe they will enjoy fighting against currents that prevent them from going where they want and carefully managing all possible ignition sources aboard their vessel. ;) Something I'd forgotten about the phlogiston is that it is also exclusively extraplanar -- it's not connected to any other planes, and cannot be connected to them. You can't even use a bag of holding while you are there. Ugh, Pholtus take the wheel.
If I'm being totally honest about crystal spheres, you could cross them for free, but you had to get lucky with timing or keep track of a portal schedule, and it was different for every sphere. At the end of the day, what it was was a bad implementation of a 'mother may I' rule. I don't generally think MMI is a problem in D&D, but this was a particularly bad example. The dungeon master had total control over whether you could pass a crystal sphere for free when you wanted to, or if you had to wait, or if you had to expend a high-level spell. It served no purpose but to delay the adventure. Waiting is not gameplay.
Nothing says that those pieces aren’t a fossil of an earlier system that no longer applies. According to FR lore the blue fire of the spellplague burned out the crystal spheres and phlogiston.
D&D5 does seem to treat the Weave as a universal D&D thing, but the Spellplague certainly wasn't. The Spellplague's effect on the phlogiston appears to be a popular fan theory but I can't find any official verification of it. Do you have a link? I'd like to read the article, if you do.
Agreed that the remnants in Undermountain could easily be understood to not represent the current state of affairs in Wildspace.
Your point about the portals makes sense. I'd imagine the intention was that players should pay attention to the schedule, and plan things around it, but obviously it just seems like an unnecessary obstacle that serves no function.
I was aware that the phlogiston isn't connected to anywhere, and that it's extremely flammable and such.
It appears that, from what I've read, spelljamming seems to have been intended to be this huge thing players needed to plan extensively for, like taking a plane across the planet.
I have no idea if my players will enjoy the prospect of navigating the phlogiston or not. It's definitely something to discuss with them.
I can't find anything about crystal spheres on the Spellplague FR Wiki page, though I admittedly haven't searched through it very thoroughly.
[more DotMM spoilers ahead]
I find it amusing how the writers of DotMM put a Spelljammer ship in there, with the only mechanics listed being the ship's value in GP. Like, if I was playing and I was suddenly in possession of a magic flying ship, there's no way in hell I'd just sell it. We're going to the moon!
I find it amusing how the writers of DotMM put a Spelljammer ship in there, with the only mechanics listed being the ship's value in GP. Like, if I was playing and I was suddenly in possession of a magic flying ship, there's no way in hell I'd just sell it. We're going to the moon!
It's particularly funny to me that they bother to give its gold value; I mean, how are you supposed to get it out? Even if you reclaim the spelljamming helm from elsewhere in the module, the ship is still stuck in supernatural mud in a cavern hundreds if not thousands of feet underground.
The real prize, if you can get it, is the helm, which is at least somewhat portable.
I do enjoy all of the completely unnecessary Spelljammer references surrounding the ship, like the planets of origin of the NPCs; someone was clearly having fun. They do get the squidship wrong, though. Oddly enough, the squid- and cuttleships are explicitly not of mind flayer construction, in the old lore.
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
I find it amusing how the writers of DotMM put a Spelljammer ship in there, with the only mechanics listed being the ship's value in GP. Like, if I was playing and I was suddenly in possession of a magic flying ship, there's no way in hell I'd just sell it. We're going to the moon!
It's particularly funny to me that they bother to give its gold value; I mean, how are you supposed to get it out? Even if you reclaim the spelljamming helm from elsewhere in the module, the ship is still stuck in supernatural mud in a cavern hundreds if not thousands of feet underground..
I'll probably give the players some way to remove the ship from Undermountain. Maybe a high-level Teleport or Arcane Gate. I'll cross that bridge when I get there ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The ship is there because it was there in the 3.x version as well. The whole thing is pretty much a 5e rewrite. yeah a couple of specialized teleport/gate spells should work fine to get it out.
The ship is there because it was there in the 3.x version as well. The whole thing is pretty much a 5e rewrite. yeah a couple of specialized teleport/gate spells should work fine to get it out.
I knew that Undermountain was obviously in older editions, but not that the 5e Undermountain is practically the same? That's pretty awesome. Are there any significant changes? And what 3.x module(s) had Undermountain?
A few (but not enough) of the floors in Dungeon of the Mad Mage have a sidebar describing the original source material. Most of them seem to be at least updated for time having passed.
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
A few (but not enough) of the floors in Dungeon of the Mad Mage have a sidebar describing the original source material. Most of them seem to be at least updated for time having passed.
Thanks for the links.
I haven't had a very in-depth read through DotMM (which I probably should), but I'll keep an eye out for the sidebars and such 👍
Sardior, ruby-red jewel GEM DRAGON fragments, is how im excusing keeping the crystal spheres.
as i run them like they are gem draconic psychic magic. Just as spelljammers are controlled by the mind only few know the draconic telepathic gift, to learn the spells to grants access.
as i run the crystal spheres they are more like portals or gates but My favorite part is the phlogiston i keep it, as it changes the meta, You do not want to cast fireball in the phlogiston sea.
Good idea
However, as much as I love the phlogiston thematically, I really don't think it's a very good thing to include. Having to keep track of every single possible source of fire sucks, and limiting casters to only non-fire spells is much too restrictive. What if there's a draconic bloodlie sorcerer in the party? Or a tiefling?
I dislike the notion of "changing the meta". D&D isn't a video game. I don't believe players should be forced to keep on top of the game from a metagaming standpoint. In my mind, D&D is a storytelling game, and the mechanics exist solely to provide cohesion and consistency to the world and actions of the players.
Sardior, ruby-red jewel GEM DRAGON fragments, is how im excusing keeping the crystal spheres.
as i run them like they are gem draconic psychic magic. Just as spelljammers are controlled by the mind only few know the draconic telepathic gift, to learn the spells to grants access.
That's a cool take and a great lore adaptation. Sardior is a good FR mystery that is easily adapted into D&D at large.
as i run the crystal spheres they are more like portals or gates but My favorite part is the phlogiston i keep it, as it changes the meta, You do not want to cast fireball in the phlogiston sea.
You do not want to do anything in the phlogiston. You don't want to light a pipe, you don't want to navigate against its currents, and you definitely don't want to run out of air and turn into your own wooden lifepod. As a player character, you don't want to be there at all, really. ;)
I tease. I just love complaining, but if it is valuable to you, use it. Just make sure everyone at the table is having as much fun with it as you are. Travel should be exciting, not a chore.
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Both phlogiston and crystal spheres where ideas from alchemy. The element of fire was phlogiston, which would be better connected to fire elementals, perhaps a space fire elemental variant. Meanwhile, crystal spheres were the explanation for planet orbits, before Newton realized it was gravity.
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I know that crystal Spheres are no longer in D&D, but Dungeon of the Mad Mage references crystal spheres and the old 2e Spelljammer a couple of times (obviously because it was written before 5e's Spelljammer).
Hypothetically, if I were to run some Spelljammer stuff later on in the same campaign, how would I keep things consistent? Should I just keep the crystal spheres from 2e, and use everything else from the new Spelljammer?
[REDACTED]
Just go with the new spelljammer stuff and change the crystal sphere references to wildspace references. (Or, leave them in as being written before the spellplague and second sundering and are no longer accurate as your players would eventually find out.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I'm going to break with my own tradition here and suggest that crystal spheres aren't actually the completely awful idea; the completely awful idea was their implementation in AD&D2.
The reason I say this is only because there's something big missing from the new Spelljammer material, and that is any kind of explanation regarding the 'transition' between Wildspace and the Astral Sea. It just happens, automatically, and that is both deeply boring and inconsistent with existing lore. It also begs the question of whether Wildspace continues beyond the transition. It absolutely does -- there is only one Material Plane, not a series of bubbles floating in the Astral -- but the way it is written is going to confuse newer dungeon masters and players, and that's a shame.
What there should be is some kind of hard boundary, and a crystal sphere would provide that.
The key, though, is that it shouldn't require resources. That's where AD&D2 went wrong. Just make the limited plane shift an additional function of the spelljamming helm.
What I would do is make the crystal spheres impenetrable by any known means, requiring spelljammers to plane shift into the Astral Sea in order to continue their journey. This has the added benefit of being mysterious. What is beyond the crystal spheres? Who built them? Are they keeping us in, or something else out? Crystal can be transparent, so it does not interfere with having normal stars, if that is something you want. Or if you like the lore that some stars are Elder Evils, maybe they are why the spheres are protecting the worlds.
TL;DR: crystal spheres are actually a somewhat compelling fantasy idea, provided you don't associate crossing them with high-level resource costs and do not use the phlogiston in any way because blech.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
My players have already found the dead wyvern with bits of crystal sphere lodged in it. That, and I really like the old Spelljammer crystal spheres and phlogiston (even if the phlogiston is ultimately a bad idea)
I like the idea that the changes to Spelljammer were because of the Spellplague, but it'd be a little weird since (as far as I know) the Spellplague was only a thing in Forgotten Realms/Realmspace
I didn't actually know that going through a crystal sphere required much of a resource.
If I do introduce Spelljammer, it won't be for quite some time, as the party is 5th level and is currently in Undermountain. As I mentioned, I love the phlogiston but I realise that it's actually a really bad idea in terms of game design. I'll probably use crystal spheres but not phlogiston, that is if I actually end up doing Spelljammer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[REDACTED]
Nothing says that those pieces aren’t a fossil of an earlier system that no longer applies. According to FR lore the blue fire of the spellplague burned out the crystal spheres and phlogiston. The presence of shattered remnants in a wyvern in Undermountain just represent a piece that was somehow untouched - quite possibly because it was in Undermountain. It can be a historic trace and clue/proof of what once was. As for Phlogiston (and relic crystal spheres) if you have the 1-3.x books you could always have the party encounter a world still running under those rules enclosed by a zone of phlogiston and a crystal sphere that was never touched by the spellplague - I know there are lots of just such campaigns still out there. Might be interesting to have the players have to back translate their characters to an earlier version as they cross into the new world.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I only have 5e books, but I love the idea that different/older worlds still work on the systems of old editions. Might steal that idea if the party somehow finds their way to the setting for my RPG.
Interesting about the Spellplague destroying the phlogiston and crystal spheres. Might you have a link to the lore?
[REDACTED]
I was reading it in the forgotten realms wiki - look up spellplague there I think
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Dungeon of the Mad Mage does have a great (and historically canonical) link to Spelljammer, though, in Stardock. Floor 16! Keep an eye out!
If you like the phlogiston, use it! Just don't let it get in the way of your players' fun. Who knows, maybe they will enjoy fighting against currents that prevent them from going where they want and carefully managing all possible ignition sources aboard their vessel. ;) Something I'd forgotten about the phlogiston is that it is also exclusively extraplanar -- it's not connected to any other planes, and cannot be connected to them. You can't even use a bag of holding while you are there. Ugh, Pholtus take the wheel.
If I'm being totally honest about crystal spheres, you could cross them for free, but you had to get lucky with timing or keep track of a portal schedule, and it was different for every sphere. At the end of the day, what it was was a bad implementation of a 'mother may I' rule. I don't generally think MMI is a problem in D&D, but this was a particularly bad example. The dungeon master had total control over whether you could pass a crystal sphere for free when you wanted to, or if you had to wait, or if you had to expend a high-level spell. It served no purpose but to delay the adventure. Waiting is not gameplay.
D&D5 does seem to treat the Weave as a universal D&D thing, but the Spellplague certainly wasn't. The Spellplague's effect on the phlogiston appears to be a popular fan theory but I can't find any official verification of it. Do you have a link? I'd like to read the article, if you do.
Agreed that the remnants in Undermountain could easily be understood to not represent the current state of affairs in Wildspace.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Keep in mind that the spellplague was WOtC explanation for the end of 3.5e for their main supported world (FR) so they have tended to carry over FR “lore” to other worlds that had sort of come and gone. Other supported worlds ( Mystara, Dragonlance, etc ) have (sort of) their own versions (DL basically uses the wars etc and a time jump of over 100 years) but yes you see a lot of FR lore sort of creep into being general d&d lore by accident.
anyway, here is the link to the FR wiki page on the spellplague:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Spellplague?so=search
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Just so we're clear, that article doesn't mention the phlogiston or crystal spheres at all, and the FR Wiki articles on the phlogiston and crystal spheres don't mention the Spellplague at all. Are you sure this was something you read on FR Wiki?
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Your point about the portals makes sense. I'd imagine the intention was that players should pay attention to the schedule, and plan things around it, but obviously it just seems like an unnecessary obstacle that serves no function.
I was aware that the phlogiston isn't connected to anywhere, and that it's extremely flammable and such.
It appears that, from what I've read, spelljamming seems to have been intended to be this huge thing players needed to plan extensively for, like taking a plane across the planet.
I have no idea if my players will enjoy the prospect of navigating the phlogiston or not. It's definitely something to discuss with them.
I can't find anything about crystal spheres on the Spellplague FR Wiki page, though I admittedly haven't searched through it very thoroughly.
[more DotMM spoilers ahead]
I find it amusing how the writers of DotMM put a Spelljammer ship in there, with the only mechanics listed being the ship's value in GP. Like, if I was playing and I was suddenly in possession of a magic flying ship, there's no way in hell I'd just sell it. We're going to the moon!
[REDACTED]
It's particularly funny to me that they bother to give its gold value; I mean, how are you supposed to get it out? Even if you reclaim the spelljamming helm from elsewhere in the module, the ship is still stuck in supernatural mud in a cavern hundreds if not thousands of feet underground.
The real prize, if you can get it, is the helm, which is at least somewhat portable.
I do enjoy all of the completely unnecessary Spelljammer references surrounding the ship, like the planets of origin of the NPCs; someone was clearly having fun. They do get the squidship wrong, though. Oddly enough, the squid- and cuttleships are explicitly not of mind flayer construction, in the old lore.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
I'll probably give the players some way to remove the ship from Undermountain. Maybe a high-level Teleport or Arcane Gate. I'll cross that bridge when I get there ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[REDACTED]
The ship is there because it was there in the 3.x version as well. The whole thing is pretty much a 5e rewrite.
yeah a couple of specialized teleport/gate spells should work fine to get it out.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I knew that Undermountain was obviously in older editions, but not that the 5e Undermountain is practically the same? That's pretty awesome. Are there any significant changes? And what 3.x module(s) had Undermountain?
[REDACTED]
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/50044/Expedition-to-Undermountain-35
Some portion of Undermountain has seen a release in every edition since AD&D2:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?filters=45323_0_0_0_0&keywords=undermountain&src=fid45323
A few (but not enough) of the floors in Dungeon of the Mad Mage have a sidebar describing the original source material. Most of them seem to be at least updated for time having passed.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Thanks for the links.
I haven't had a very in-depth read through DotMM (which I probably should), but I'll keep an eye out for the sidebars and such 👍
[REDACTED]
Good idea
However, as much as I love the phlogiston thematically, I really don't think it's a very good thing to include. Having to keep track of every single possible source of fire sucks, and limiting casters to only non-fire spells is much too restrictive. What if there's a draconic bloodlie sorcerer in the party? Or a tiefling?
I dislike the notion of "changing the meta". D&D isn't a video game. I don't believe players should be forced to keep on top of the game from a metagaming standpoint. In my mind, D&D is a storytelling game, and the mechanics exist solely to provide cohesion and consistency to the world and actions of the players.
[REDACTED]
That's a cool take and a great lore adaptation. Sardior is a good FR mystery that is easily adapted into D&D at large.
You do not want to do anything in the phlogiston. You don't want to light a pipe, you don't want to navigate against its currents, and you definitely don't want to run out of air and turn into your own wooden lifepod. As a player character, you don't want to be there at all, really. ;)
I tease. I just love complaining, but if it is valuable to you, use it. Just make sure everyone at the table is having as much fun with it as you are. Travel should be exciting, not a chore.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Both phlogiston and crystal spheres where ideas from alchemy. The element of fire was phlogiston, which would be better connected to fire elementals, perhaps a space fire elemental variant. Meanwhile, crystal spheres were the explanation for planet orbits, before Newton realized it was gravity.
Pronouns: he/him/his.
My posting scheduled is irregular: sometimes I can post twice a week, sometimes twice a day. I may also respond to quick questions, but ignore harder responses in favor of time.
My location is where my character for my home game is (we're doing the wild beyond the witchlight).
"The Doomvault... Probably full of unicorns and rainbows." -An imaginary quote