Setting-dependent. The PHB does say so... but all it actually tells you about Gruumsh is "Gruumsh, a powerful god who roamed the wide open spaces of the Material Plane. Gruumsh equipped his children with gifts to help them wander great plains, vast caverns, and churning seas and to face the monsters that lurk there", which doesn't tell you anything about personality. The DMG lore entry isn't much more informative.
I also know what Mordenkainen's tome of foes says about Orcs, but that lore is considered to be culturally insensitive, I want to know how to play one of the new culturally sensitive 2024 Orcs.
As a person with the same general range of cultures as any other species.
The most important point here is that within the broad scope of D&D as a whole, there is not a "correct" way to play an orc. Orcs in Faerun are different from orcs in Eberron and both are different from orcs in Tal'Dorei. Older material cleaved towards Faerun lore as the default, but they've moved away from that for a while now rather specifically because they don't want to have the very issue you're attempting to approach in the game. Now, there's a certain degree of pros and cons to this- the roleplay prompts in the new PHB are painfully scarce- but overall so long as we get some more substantial lore in the upcoming setting books, I think it's good to avoid presenting the image there's a single correct default state for the races.
but they've moved away from that for a while now rather specifically because they don't want to have the very issue you're attempting to approach in the game.
Setting-dependent. The PHB does say so... but all it actually tells you about Gruumsh is "Gruumsh, a powerful god who roamed the wide open spaces of the Material Plane. Gruumsh equipped his children with gifts to help them wander great plains, vast caverns, and churning seas and to face the monsters that lurk there", which doesn't tell you anything about personality. The DMG lore entry isn't much more informative.
Right and there are no other sources that give us more information about what his personality might be?
The entire idea of there being a correct way to play an orc.
I am not saying there is one correct way to play and Orc, you can play an Orc however you want however and while the culture of the race or civilization that a character comes from might not necessarily define them I find the best written characters are ones that have their personality and growth informed by these aspects. If a playable race option offers no unique perspectives or views why bother playing the option over human?
The entire idea of there being a correct way to play an orc.
I am not saying there is one correct way to play and Orc, you can play an Orc however you want however and while the culture of the race or civilization that a character comes from might not necessarily define them I find the best written characters are ones that have their personality and growth informed by these aspects. If a playable race option offers no unique perspectives or views why bother playing the option over human?
Except, as pointed out, the cultures are not standardized and there's no default setting. Ergo, there is no default answer to this question. If you are looking to design a character for one of the existing settings you can find some context, but in a vacuum asking how to play an orc is like asking how to play someone with brown eyes.
The entire idea of there being a correct way to play an orc.
I am not saying there is one correct way to play and Orc, you can play an Orc however you want however and while the culture of the race or civilization that a character comes from might not necessarily define them I find the best written characters are ones that have their personality and growth informed by these aspects. If a playable race option offers no unique perspectives or views why bother playing the option over human?
Except, as pointed out, the cultures are not standardized and there's no default setting. Ergo, there is no default answer to this question. If you are looking to design a character for one of the existing settings you can find some context, but in a vacuum asking how to play an orc is like asking how to play someone with brown eyes.
If you look at my original post you will notice that I asked about orc cultures specifically in the Forgotten Realms, are there no orc cultures in the Forgotten Realms?
If you look at my original post you will notice that I asked about orc cultures specifically in the Forgotten Realms, are there no orc cultures in the Forgotten Realms?
But you're also asking about the orcs of the PHB, and those are not the orcs of the FR.
The updated FR books are not out yet. If you want FR lore, go to the FR sources.
Yeah but how many orc tribes live in Waterdeep? Of course an individual of a different race raised in a different society will likely behave differently to others of their race I am asking what an Orc raised in a traditional Orc tribe would act like?
Assuming orcs in the setting are even a tribal society (unlikely in any area with a meaningful numbers of adventurers), they behave however that tribe behaves, which will see quite massive variance because tribal societies don't generally interact over a long distance, subject to the limits of what's possible for tribal societies (which is pretty limited due to very low wealth). In practice orcs have no traits that would produce tribal cultures that are meaningfully different from human tribal cultures.
Weren't Orcs created by Grumuush? And what is Grumuush known for again? Would that not have an impact on their culture?
The way you figure out typical cultural traits is very simple: look at which, if any, of the species' traits would modify their culture in a meaningful way. Other than that, assume the same variety of cultures as exists for humans. If we look at orc traits:
Well in the past Orcs also had the trait of being generally built stronger and more durable but more lacking in mental capabilities, but I am pretty sure they scrapped the physical and mental attributes for one reason or another.
If you were to actually read the description of orcs, there is a line that says, "Even if they turn their devotion to other gods..." That clearly tells us that orcs can worship other gods and that they have varied cultures.
Hmm there seems to be another part to that line suggesting something else about their nature that you cut off? What is the next part to that line "Even if they turn their devotion to other gods..."?
But I never said Orcs can't worship any gods other than Grumuush, just as a Drow does not necessarily need to worship Lolth either, however even in the new lore it seems they were still created by Grumuush which one would think would be a factor in their culture and societies.
You keep telling me that they can have varied cultures but so far you have yet to name even one in the forgotten realms, so far in the new lore Orcs don't really have any societies and cultures, they are just there indistinct from humans apart from their skin colour and teeth, if there are no unique cultural identity or traits then why play as an Orc at all?
The next part says something along the lines of 'they retain these gifts', talking about the abilities granted by Gruumsh.
I am talking about the description given in the book. Do you not have access to that?
About the forgotten realms example you've requested, "The new forgotten realms book isn't out yet. You'll have to wait until then."
I agree that the lore change makes them somewhat bland.
No I am aware of what it says in the 2014 players handbook
The one-eyed god Gruumsh—lord of war and fury—created the first orcs, and even those orcs who turn away from his worship carry his blessings of might and endurance. The same is true of half-orcs. Some half-orcs hear the whispers of Gruumsh in their dreams, calling them to unleash the rage that simmers within them.
I also know what Mordenkainen's tome of foes says about Orcs, but that lore is considered to be culturally insensitive, I want to know how to play one of the new culturally sensitive 2024 Orcs.
The old half orcs are irrelevant to the new, changed orcs in the 2024 phb.
Setting-dependent. The PHB does say so... but all it actually tells you about Gruumsh is "Gruumsh, a powerful god who roamed the wide open spaces of the Material Plane. Gruumsh equipped his children with gifts to help them wander great plains, vast caverns, and churning seas and to face the monsters that lurk there", which doesn't tell you anything about personality. The DMG lore entry isn't much more informative.
Right and there are no other sources that give us more information about what his personality might be?
If you look at my original post you will notice that I asked about orc cultures specifically in the Forgotten Realms, are there no orc cultures in the Forgotten Realms?
But you're also asking about the orcs of the PHB, and those are not the orcs of the FR.
The updated FR books are not out yet. If you want FR lore, go to the FR sources.
Or ask your DM about the cultures of orcs.
And here I thought the orcs in the PHB referred to the orcs across the entire multiverse which includes the Forgotten Realms
Setting-dependent. The PHB does say so... but all it actually tells you about Gruumsh is "Gruumsh, a powerful god who roamed the wide open spaces of the Material Plane. Gruumsh equipped his children with gifts to help them wander great plains, vast caverns, and churning seas and to face the monsters that lurk there", which doesn't tell you anything about personality. The DMG lore entry isn't much more informative.
Right and there are no other sources that give us more information about what his personality might be?
You are asking about new lore and pointing to old lore.
Well I have been asking people to point me to the new lore but apparently there isn't anything, apparently we are supposed to play an Orc pretty much identically to a human, the only lore sources I have to go by are the old sources.
But ok I will wait for the new forgotten realms handbook, cant wait to see what they say (or dont say) about orc cultures in this new progressive age.
But just answer me this, would it be considered culturally insensitive if I played an Orc thief?
This thread has had some great discussions on avoiding monolithic cultures in worldbuilding, some potential effects of orcish traits influencing culture, and where we may find more setting specific lore in future books. As it seems like it has reached the end of its conductive lifespan, best to end it now to avoid it becoming circular or bad faith in its questions.
Mostly?
Setting-dependent. The PHB does say so... but all it actually tells you about Gruumsh is "Gruumsh, a powerful god who roamed the wide open spaces of the Material Plane. Gruumsh equipped his children with gifts to help them wander great plains, vast caverns, and churning seas and to face the monsters that lurk there", which doesn't tell you anything about personality. The DMG lore entry isn't much more informative.
As a person with the same general range of cultures as any other species.
The most important point here is that within the broad scope of D&D as a whole, there is not a "correct" way to play an orc. Orcs in Faerun are different from orcs in Eberron and both are different from orcs in Tal'Dorei. Older material cleaved towards Faerun lore as the default, but they've moved away from that for a while now rather specifically because they don't want to have the very issue you're attempting to approach in the game. Now, there's a certain degree of pros and cons to this- the roleplay prompts in the new PHB are painfully scarce- but overall so long as we get some more substantial lore in the upcoming setting books, I think it's good to avoid presenting the image there's a single correct default state for the races.
And what issue exactly would that be?
The entire idea of there being a correct way to play an orc.
Right and there are no other sources that give us more information about what his personality might be?
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gruumsh
I am not saying there is one correct way to play and Orc, you can play an Orc however you want however and while the culture of the race or civilization that a character comes from might not necessarily define them I find the best written characters are ones that have their personality and growth informed by these aspects. If a playable race option offers no unique perspectives or views why bother playing the option over human?
Except, as pointed out, the cultures are not standardized and there's no default setting. Ergo, there is no default answer to this question. If you are looking to design a character for one of the existing settings you can find some context, but in a vacuum asking how to play an orc is like asking how to play someone with brown eyes.
If you look at my original post you will notice that I asked about orc cultures specifically in the Forgotten Realms, are there no orc cultures in the Forgotten Realms?
But you're also asking about the orcs of the PHB, and those are not the orcs of the FR.
The updated FR books are not out yet. If you want FR lore, go to the FR sources.
Or ask your DM about the cultures of orcs.
The old half orcs are irrelevant to the new, changed orcs in the 2024 phb.
You are asking about new lore and pointing to old lore.
And here I thought the orcs in the PHB referred to the orcs across the entire multiverse which includes the Forgotten Realms
Well I have been asking people to point me to the new lore but apparently there isn't anything, apparently we are supposed to play an Orc pretty much identically to a human, the only lore sources I have to go by are the old sources.
But ok I will wait for the new forgotten realms handbook, cant wait to see what they say (or dont say) about orc cultures in this new progressive age.
But just answer me this, would it be considered culturally insensitive if I played an Orc thief?
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ModeratorThis thread has had some great discussions on avoiding monolithic cultures in worldbuilding, some potential effects of orcish traits influencing culture, and where we may find more setting specific lore in future books. As it seems like it has reached the end of its conductive lifespan, best to end it now to avoid it becoming circular or bad faith in its questions.
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