If you really want to throw gasoline onto the SJW perspective of the drow and their appearance, you can point out that they are making them both less black and less evil...at the same time. Might have some subliminal messaging in there...
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I refuse to take seriously the notion that literally black-skinned Drow resemble or are based on any real-world ethnic group or phenotype, because they simply don't and they just aren't.
The 'problem' of evil Drow is no different from any other evil humanoid species/race, so far as I can tell.
It's basically two parts:
1 philosophical objections
Some gamers find an 'always evil' or 'almost always evil' race implausible or unappealing. Tolkien toyed around with different origins for the Orcs in large part because an all-evil race clashed with a difficult fit with his moral and religious views. If the race lacks free will, can its members be considered moral agents? If it has free will, why do all (or nearly all) of its members choose evil over good? What of the soul? How does society function if everyone is wicked and selfish? Evil babies?
2 PC persecution issues
Drow are presented as both evil monsters and as a playable race. This can create a conflict between DM ideas of how the world works and player expectations, with a player wanting to play a Drow but not wanting to deal with monster-hunting adventurers and angry mobs chasing his PC all over the place. Same problem can crop up with any of the evil monster races; goblins, kobolds, orcs, etc. Tieflings, too.
I'm a drow fan, and I /want/ my characters to be a little persecuted. My DMs generally ignore it though because they don't want to deal with it.
My opinion is that drow /society/ is evil, and that makes the drow who grow up in that society evil via learned behavior. I do not believe that drow are inherently evil.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
From the random encounters table for Erelhei-Cinlu in D3: Vault of the Drow
Rakes roaming the streets in Erelhei-Cinlu are bands of bitter youths, often outcasts. The band will be composed of either Drow, Drow-elves, and half-Drow (human cross) or Drow, half-Drow, and (1-2) half-orcs. The former sort of group is 40% likely, the latter 60%. Drow crosses will have magic resistance equal to their Dark Elven heritage but no spell ability. The bands with elven-Drow members will be hostile to all they perceive as part of the system which prevails in their world, and the Dark Elves with them are of the few who are neither totally degenerate nor wholly evil—they are haters of the society around them and see no good in it. All rakes will be fighters of 4th-7th level of ability (or in the case of groups with half-orcs, fighter/thieves of 3rd-5th/4th-7th or fighter/assassins of 4th-6th/4th-6th level are 50% likely for half-Drow and half-orc rakes). The first sort of group will wear chain shirts under their garments (+1 or +2) and have +1 weapons. The latter groups will not wear armor, and they will be likely to have a few +3 weapons. Rakes encountered inside will be seated so as to appear to be several smaller groups. Those outside will be in 2 or 3 groups so as to surround and surprise their victims. All will scatter when a patrol or nobles appear, for they are greatly disliked by the Drow military and upper class.
If the party manages a friendly meeting with a group of Drow/Drow-elves/half-Drow rakes the youths will tell them about the worship of the Demoness Lolth and the way to her "Egg." The rakes will accompany the party to the area in question if a plan which seems reasonable to them is put forth. They will also leave the Vault-Egg areas in the course of adventuring.
So there has always been a tiny fraction of the population that are not wholly Evil. Any Drow that wanted to be Good and/or Neutral types should come from these bitter outcasts. Heck, even Evil ones might come from this same group. After all, it was the House Eilservs/Tormtor faction that wanted to bring the entire Vault under their dominion and thus switched their allegiance from Lolth to The Elder Elemental God Vilp-akf ’cho Rentaq. Sure, they're still Evil AF, but they broke with the "traditions" of Drow cultural norms. They even managed to organize a number of surface proxies to carry out their conquests: The Temple of Elemental Evil, The Slavelords of the Pomarj and the giants of the Jotens/Crystalmist/Hellfurnace Mountains.
The main difference, I think, between Drow and Orks (for example) is that in D&D the Orks are the creation of an Evil god, Gruumsh. Lolth didn't create the Drow, they sought her out due to their Evil disposition. That may be a fine, if subtle, distinction. But changing the skin tones of the Drow to suit some (frankly) nonsensical non-issue is titling at windmills, if not worse. I refuse to change my conception of the Drow to suite these overgrown children that want to be offended at everything.
As for settings where Drow are despised, well, that's the nature of the beast. Make sure your character has a Disguise kit. Cover your face with a mask and wear gloves all the time. You choose what you play. Now, DMs should warn their players UP FRONT what will happen and/or what they will/won't allow in-setting. I won't allow playable Drow unless you're prepared to live with what comes your way and/or take actions to mitigate getting stoned by a crowd of (rightfully) fearful peasants who know your kind as the "things that go bump in the night". But I will allow players to roll Wild Elf or Valley Elf PCs (since I run Greyhawk).
As for settings where Drow are despised, well, that's the nature of the beast. Make sure your character has a Disguise kit. Cover your face with a mask and wear gloves all the time. You choose what you play. Now, DMs should warn their players UP FRONT what will happen and/or what they will/won't allow in-setting. I won't allow playable Drow unless you're prepared to live with what comes your way and/or take actions to mitigate getting stoned by a crowd of (rightfully) fearful peasants who know your kind as the "things that go bump in the night". But I will allow players to roll Wild Elf or Valley Elf PCs (since I run Greyhawk).
Exactly! In the Dark Elf trilogy, Drizzt isn't immediately accepted with open arms. He's got to work for it and build a reputation before he's allowed to enter towns and such. He's turned away numerous times, slandered and hunted. In the Crystal Shard trilogy he has to get a mask to hide his appearance so he isn't attacked on sight. Eventually, he builds enough of a reputation that some folks (not all, Riders of Nesme come to mind) give him an opportunity to prove himself. As a drow player, that's what I'd want, is the ability to EARN an OPPORTUNITY. That's interesting to me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
If you really want to throw gasoline onto the SJW perspective of the drow and their appearance, you can point out that they are making them both less black and less evil...at the same time. Might have some subliminal messaging in there...
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I refuse to take seriously the notion that literally black-skinned Drow resemble or are based on any real-world ethnic group or phenotype, because they simply don't and they just aren't.
The 'problem' of evil Drow is no different from any other evil humanoid species/race, so far as I can tell.
It's basically two parts:
1 philosophical objections
Some gamers find an 'always evil' or 'almost always evil' race implausible or unappealing. Tolkien toyed around with different origins for the Orcs in large part because an all-evil race clashed with a difficult fit with his moral and religious views. If the race lacks free will, can its members be considered moral agents? If it has free will, why do all (or nearly all) of its members choose evil over good? What of the soul? How does society function if everyone is wicked and selfish? Evil babies?
2 PC persecution issues
Drow are presented as both evil monsters and as a playable race. This can create a conflict between DM ideas of how the world works and player expectations, with a player wanting to play a Drow but not wanting to deal with monster-hunting adventurers and angry mobs chasing his PC all over the place. Same problem can crop up with any of the evil monster races; goblins, kobolds, orcs, etc. Tieflings, too.
I'm a drow fan, and I /want/ my characters to be a little persecuted. My DMs generally ignore it though because they don't want to deal with it.
My opinion is that drow /society/ is evil, and that makes the drow who grow up in that society evil via learned behavior. I do not believe that drow are inherently evil.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
From the random encounters table for Erelhei-Cinlu in D3: Vault of the Drow
Rakes roaming the streets in Erelhei-Cinlu are bands of bitter youths, often outcasts. The band will be composed of either Drow, Drow-elves, and half-Drow (human cross) or Drow, half-Drow, and (1-2) half-orcs. The former sort of group is 40% likely, the latter 60%. Drow crosses will have magic resistance equal to their Dark Elven heritage but no spell ability. The bands with elven-Drow members will be hostile to all they perceive as part of the system which prevails in their world, and the Dark Elves with them are of the few who are neither totally degenerate nor wholly evil—they are haters of the society around them and see no good in it. All rakes will be fighters of 4th-7th level of ability (or in the case of groups with half-orcs, fighter/thieves of 3rd-5th/4th-7th or fighter/assassins of 4th-6th/4th-6th level are 50% likely for half-Drow and half-orc rakes). The first sort of group will wear chain shirts under their garments (+1 or +2) and have +1 weapons. The latter groups will not wear armor, and they will be likely to have a few +3 weapons. Rakes encountered inside will be seated so as to appear to be several smaller groups. Those outside will be in 2 or 3 groups so as to surround and surprise their victims. All will scatter when a patrol or nobles appear, for they are greatly disliked by the Drow military and upper class.
If the party manages a friendly meeting with a group of Drow/Drow-elves/half-Drow rakes the youths will tell them about the worship of the Demoness Lolth and the way to her "Egg." The rakes will accompany the party to the area in question if a plan which seems reasonable to them is put forth. They will also leave the Vault-Egg areas in the course of adventuring.
So there has always been a tiny fraction of the population that are not wholly Evil. Any Drow that wanted to be Good and/or Neutral types should come from these bitter outcasts. Heck, even Evil ones might come from this same group. After all, it was the House Eilservs/Tormtor faction that wanted to bring the entire Vault under their dominion and thus switched their allegiance from Lolth to The Elder Elemental God Vilp-akf ’cho Rentaq. Sure, they're still Evil AF, but they broke with the "traditions" of Drow cultural norms. They even managed to organize a number of surface proxies to carry out their conquests: The Temple of Elemental Evil, The Slavelords of the Pomarj and the giants of the Jotens/Crystalmist/Hellfurnace Mountains.
The main difference, I think, between Drow and Orks (for example) is that in D&D the Orks are the creation of an Evil god, Gruumsh. Lolth didn't create the Drow, they sought her out due to their Evil disposition. That may be a fine, if subtle, distinction. But changing the skin tones of the Drow to suit some (frankly) nonsensical non-issue is titling at windmills, if not worse. I refuse to change my conception of the Drow to suite these overgrown children that want to be offended at everything.
As for settings where Drow are despised, well, that's the nature of the beast. Make sure your character has a Disguise kit. Cover your face with a mask and wear gloves all the time. You choose what you play. Now, DMs should warn their players UP FRONT what will happen and/or what they will/won't allow in-setting. I won't allow playable Drow unless you're prepared to live with what comes your way and/or take actions to mitigate getting stoned by a crowd of (rightfully) fearful peasants who know your kind as the "things that go bump in the night". But I will allow players to roll Wild Elf or Valley Elf PCs (since I run Greyhawk).
Exactly! In the Dark Elf trilogy, Drizzt isn't immediately accepted with open arms. He's got to work for it and build a reputation before he's allowed to enter towns and such. He's turned away numerous times, slandered and hunted. In the Crystal Shard trilogy he has to get a mask to hide his appearance so he isn't attacked on sight. Eventually, he builds enough of a reputation that some folks (not all, Riders of Nesme come to mind) give him an opportunity to prove himself. As a drow player, that's what I'd want, is the ability to EARN an OPPORTUNITY. That's interesting to me.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Greyhawk, yay!
Valley and Wild (grugach) elves are both pretty cool subraces.
I agree about letting players know up front what they are getting into playing monsters.