In my current campaign my character is a level 5 artillerist and while ive been running with fire bolt as my go to damage cantrip for a while now I feel like the fire damage is holding it back. I come here to ask if I should either switch it out for some other cantrip like ray of frost or acid splash, use my Asi to get magic initiate and get some cantrips from another class, or continue on with it since it is the highest damage cantrip artificers normally get. With an Asi my Int is 20 and my party is made up of two palis and maybe one cleric but Im not sure about the cleric. I've actually been looking at getting magic initiate Wizard to get mind sliver or toll the dead. I really like the idea of using mind sliver and giving enemies a -1d4 to their next saving throw, however I do know that toll the dead is probably just better. I'm also using the enhanced arcane focus so If i was to get either mind sliver or toll the dead it would have a DC of 15.
Well, one thing to remember about playing an Artillerist is that you can't use Arcane Firearm with spells from other classes. So I'd really avoid taking damage-dealing spells with Magic Initiate or you'll lose out on that extra damage.
Acid Splash is an okay spell, it deals a damage type that's rarely resisted but it's a Dex save and there are a lot of monsters with excellent Dex saves. Ray of Frost is a better spell, but there are actually more monsters that are resistant to cold damage than fire (but decidedly fewer that are immune). If damage type is the thing causing the issue, you may want to consider Thorn Whip.
Taking Elemental Adept is quite useful for an Artillerist, since you get some great fire spells: Heat Metal, Scorching Ray, Fireball, and Wall of Fire. Not only does it punch through resistance, it also raises your minimum damage, which is always useful.
I'm confused about what ASI you're talking about- are you talking about the one you got at 4th level or the one you're going to get at 8th?
Mind Sliver is decent and Intelligence is not a very common stat for enemies to possess in abundance... unless they do and then you're likely not to get it through at all. You could technically chain this back to back to continue to deal damage via Mind Sliver or use it to get a slight edge with other spells or paladin pummeling. When mixed with other things such as Curse or Bless, it could theoretically reduce a enemies save by 2-8.
Acid Splash is good for grouped small/weak targets. However, high dexterity is pretty common for a number of enemies. You can harm two targets at once, but you'd have to gauge just how often that would come up in your game and it would be the only real benefit to using it.
I will say, despite being one of the top damaging cantrips, Toll the Dead using a Wisdom save is going to be rough when facing BBEG's. It's pretty common for big baddies to have a high wisdom if they aren't outright be immune to mind-control and other spells. It's really hit or miss. Either the enemies going to avoid it constantly, or it's going to keep getting hit by it.
I think more info would be required of your characters preferred combat style but you can't really go wrong with Mind Sliver with your type of group.
Although...
If you play at range, then Ray of Frost (d8's + -10ft movement) would help keep you out of their range; typically forcing them to use their action to dash and not attacking if/when they get to you. Less damage than firebolt and potentially just as useless if you are fighting in colder climates (where enemies have cold resistance), but it does lower their speed regardless. One added bonus is that, if it is immune/resistant to ice, then it typically shouldn't be immune/resistant to fire.
If you find yourself constantly surrounded or with said enemy right next to you, I'd say combine that with Shocking Grasp (d8's + no reactions) to keep the enemy from using a reaction and get away. Good if your Artificer is squishy and needs to avoid as many hits as possible. Especially useful against armored units allowing you to backup and get out of dodge. Combined with heat metal makes this is a rather mean combo against armored enemies and those who really like holding their weapons/metal shields.
I'm talking about the one at fourth level. I totally forgot that the arcane firearm doesn't work with other spells, my dm would probably let me bypass that but I didn't think about it. I haven't considered elemental adept so that could be an option
Currently with my party the playstyle is to chill behind the palis and throw spells at enemies, my ac is sitting at 20 right now so I think shocking grasp might not be the right choice.
Well, one thing to remember about playing an Artillerist is that you can't use Arcane Firearm with spells from other classes. So I'd really avoid taking damage-dealing spells with Magic Initiate or you'll lose out on that extra damage.
I do wanna ask about Arcane Firearm, is the extra damage it adds on the same as the spell you used with it? For example, if I use fire bolt would that extra 1d8 be fire damage since fire bolt is fire? I never really thought about it but if I use elemental adapt fire could I treat it as fire damage and raise my minimum damage?
I'm talking about the one at fourth level. I totally forgot that the arcane firearm doesn't work with other spells, my dm would probably let me bypass that but I didn't think about it. I haven't considered elemental adept so that could be an option
Bear in mind it works with Artificer spells, not Artificer spells you have prepared. That means the definition of what spells it works on is your personal definition of the Artificer spell list (e.g. the definition is modified if you have a dragonmarked subrace). Also, if your DM hasn't read how Spirits Bards work in Van Richten's, they should - Spirits Bards bring into sharper focus than Artillerists do the extent to which we have no idea what it means to cast a spell through an object. There's no RAW on it. One example of myriad is that no-one knows if Artillerists and Spirits Bards need to hold an object to cast through it, which as you might imagine can very easily come up.
I agree, the best solution is to nab Elemental Adept. It pairs great with Artillerist, since it lets you ignore resistance and gives you a subtle but impactful boost to damage... although I'd be curious on the opinion of Elemental Adepts rule about treating 1's rolled as 2's... does that apply to the additional damage granted by the Arcane Firearm? I would allow it, personally, but I'm curious because the Arcane Firearm defines that additional damage as a "bonus to one of the spell's damage rolls", and not as an additional damage roll unto itself. Would the Arcane Firearm damage get rolled again from a Critical Hit? My instinct says yes, but I've been wrong before about that sort of thing.
I agree, the best solution is to nab Elemental Adept. It pairs great with Artillerist, since it lets you ignore resistance and gives you a subtle but impactful boost to damage... although I'd be curious on the opinion of Elemental Adepts rule about treating 1's rolled as 2's... does that apply to the additional damage granted by the Arcane Firearm? I would allow it, personally, but I'm curious because the Arcane Firearm defines that additional damage as a "bonus to one of the spell's damage rolls", and not as an additional damage roll unto itself. Would the Arcane Firearm damage get rolled again from a Critical Hit? My instinct says yes, but I've been wrong before about that sort of thing.
I think the damage is treated similar to a sneak attack to where yes It does get rolled again from crit and earlier I had the same question about arcane firearm being affected by elemental adept and I also believe that is true as it adds on damage to whatever the spell you're using it with, so for fire bolt the arcane firearms additional damage would be fire
The verbiage of arcane firearm seems to be written in a way to preclude it from doubling on a crit.
“When you cast an artificer spell through the firearm, roll a d8, and you gain a bonus to one of the spell's damage rolls equal to the number rolled.”
it tells us to roll the die but add the damage as a bonus rather than adding the die directly to the spells damage. Bonuses to rolls are a modifier or sorts. So this seems to be a variable modifier that is separate from but added to spell damage.
The verbiage of arcane firearm seems to be written in a way to preclude it from doubling on a crit.
“When you cast an artificer spell through the firearm, roll a d8, and you gain a bonus to one of the spell's damage rolls equal to the number rolled.”
it tells us to roll the die but add the damage as a bonus rather than adding the die directly to the spells damage. Bonuses to rolls are a modifier or sorts. So this seems to be a variable modifier that is separate from but added to spell damage.
No, that's one of the variations on how you're told to let damage crit. If you want examples of what it looks like when damage can't crit, here are Psi Warrior and Swarmkeeper, neither of which can crit:
Once on each of your turns, immediately after you hit a target within 30 feet of you with an attack and deal damage to it with a weapon, you can expend one Psionic Energy die, rolling it and dealing force damage to the target equal to the number rolled plus your Intelligence modifier.
Once on each of your turns, you can cause the swarm to assist you in one of the following ways, immediately after you hit a creature with an attack: • The attack's target takes 1d6 piercing damage from the swarm .
As a general rule, words like "bonus", "extra", and "additional" mean the damage can crit. It can't crit when it comes from another source and isn't additive with the attack's own damage roll.
Once you've figured out how to cast a spell through a firearm - and good luck, because the rules don't cover it and the dictionary definition suggests you'll need a firearm shaped like a hula hoop - the rest of that rule is straightforward. Same issue as with Spirits Bards, actually, but if anything it's even more obvious with Spirits Bards that we genuinely have no idea what the word salad in casting through an object is even intended to mean. I would really like to watch a video of any of the rules devs playing with an Artillerist or Spirits Bard at their table, in the hopes of guessing at what was intended.
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In my current campaign my character is a level 5 artillerist and while ive been running with fire bolt as my go to damage cantrip for a while now I feel like the fire damage is holding it back. I come here to ask if I should either switch it out for some other cantrip like ray of frost or acid splash, use my Asi to get magic initiate and get some cantrips from another class, or continue on with it since it is the highest damage cantrip artificers normally get. With an Asi my Int is 20 and my party is made up of two palis and maybe one cleric but Im not sure about the cleric. I've actually been looking at getting magic initiate Wizard to get mind sliver or toll the dead. I really like the idea of using mind sliver and giving enemies a -1d4 to their next saving throw, however I do know that toll the dead is probably just better. I'm also using the enhanced arcane focus so If i was to get either mind sliver or toll the dead it would have a DC of 15.
Well, one thing to remember about playing an Artillerist is that you can't use Arcane Firearm with spells from other classes. So I'd really avoid taking damage-dealing spells with Magic Initiate or you'll lose out on that extra damage.
Acid Splash is an okay spell, it deals a damage type that's rarely resisted but it's a Dex save and there are a lot of monsters with excellent Dex saves. Ray of Frost is a better spell, but there are actually more monsters that are resistant to cold damage than fire (but decidedly fewer that are immune). If damage type is the thing causing the issue, you may want to consider Thorn Whip.
Taking Elemental Adept is quite useful for an Artillerist, since you get some great fire spells: Heat Metal, Scorching Ray, Fireball, and Wall of Fire. Not only does it punch through resistance, it also raises your minimum damage, which is always useful.
I'm confused about what ASI you're talking about- are you talking about the one you got at 4th level or the one you're going to get at 8th?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Note: Enhanced Arcane Focus does not improve the save DC.
While holding this item, a creature gains a +1 bonus to spell attack rolls. In addition, the creature ignores half cover when making a spell attack.
The bonus increases to +2 when you reach 10th level in this class.
Mind Sliver is decent and Intelligence is not a very common stat for enemies to possess in abundance... unless they do and then you're likely not to get it through at all. You could technically chain this back to back to continue to deal damage via Mind Sliver or use it to get a slight edge with other spells or paladin pummeling. When mixed with other things such as Curse or Bless, it could theoretically reduce a enemies save by 2-8.
Acid Splash is good for grouped small/weak targets. However, high dexterity is pretty common for a number of enemies. You can harm two targets at once, but you'd have to gauge just how often that would come up in your game and it would be the only real benefit to using it.
I will say, despite being one of the top damaging cantrips, Toll the Dead using a Wisdom save is going to be rough when facing BBEG's. It's pretty common for big baddies to have a high wisdom if they aren't outright be immune to mind-control and other spells. It's really hit or miss. Either the enemies going to avoid it constantly, or it's going to keep getting hit by it.
I think more info would be required of your characters preferred combat style but you can't really go wrong with Mind Sliver with your type of group.
Although...
If you play at range, then Ray of Frost (d8's + -10ft movement) would help keep you out of their range; typically forcing them to use their action to dash and not attacking if/when they get to you. Less damage than firebolt and potentially just as useless if you are fighting in colder climates (where enemies have cold resistance), but it does lower their speed regardless. One added bonus is that, if it is immune/resistant to ice, then it typically shouldn't be immune/resistant to fire.
If you find yourself constantly surrounded or with said enemy right next to you, I'd say combine that with Shocking Grasp (d8's + no reactions) to keep the enemy from using a reaction and get away. Good if your Artificer is squishy and needs to avoid as many hits as possible. Especially useful against armored units allowing you to backup and get out of dodge. Combined with heat metal makes this is a rather mean combo against armored enemies and those who really like holding their weapons/metal shields.
I'm talking about the one at fourth level. I totally forgot that the arcane firearm doesn't work with other spells, my dm would probably let me bypass that but I didn't think about it. I haven't considered elemental adept so that could be an option
Currently with my party the playstyle is to chill behind the palis and throw spells at enemies, my ac is sitting at 20 right now so I think shocking grasp might not be the right choice.
I do wanna ask about Arcane Firearm, is the extra damage it adds on the same as the spell you used with it? For example, if I use fire bolt would that extra 1d8 be fire damage since fire bolt is fire? I never really thought about it but if I use elemental adapt fire could I treat it as fire damage and raise my minimum damage?
Yes, the extra damage dealt by Arcane Firearm is the same type as the spell's normal damage. And it is affected by Elemental Adept.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Ah ok thank you, I think my best bet then is to use elemental adapt fire and just stick with fire bolt as my main damage cantrip.
Definitely a good option.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Bear in mind it works with Artificer spells, not Artificer spells you have prepared. That means the definition of what spells it works on is your personal definition of the Artificer spell list (e.g. the definition is modified if you have a dragonmarked subrace). Also, if your DM hasn't read how Spirits Bards work in Van Richten's, they should - Spirits Bards bring into sharper focus than Artillerists do the extent to which we have no idea what it means to cast a spell through an object. There's no RAW on it. One example of myriad is that no-one knows if Artillerists and Spirits Bards need to hold an object to cast through it, which as you might imagine can very easily come up.
I agree, the best solution is to nab Elemental Adept. It pairs great with Artillerist, since it lets you ignore resistance and gives you a subtle but impactful boost to damage... although I'd be curious on the opinion of Elemental Adepts rule about treating 1's rolled as 2's... does that apply to the additional damage granted by the Arcane Firearm? I would allow it, personally, but I'm curious because the Arcane Firearm defines that additional damage as a "bonus to one of the spell's damage rolls", and not as an additional damage roll unto itself. Would the Arcane Firearm damage get rolled again from a Critical Hit? My instinct says yes, but I've been wrong before about that sort of thing.
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I think the damage is treated similar to a sneak attack to where yes It does get rolled again from crit and earlier I had the same question about arcane firearm being affected by elemental adept and I also believe that is true as it adds on damage to whatever the spell you're using it with, so for fire bolt the arcane firearms additional damage would be fire
The verbiage of arcane firearm seems to be written in a way to preclude it from doubling on a crit.
“When you cast an artificer spell through the firearm, roll a d8, and you gain a bonus to one of the spell's damage rolls equal to the number rolled.”
it tells us to roll the die but add the damage as a bonus rather than adding the die directly to the spells damage. Bonuses to rolls are a modifier or sorts. So this seems to be a variable modifier that is separate from but added to spell damage.
No, that's one of the variations on how you're told to let damage crit. If you want examples of what it looks like when damage can't crit, here are Psi Warrior and Swarmkeeper, neither of which can crit:
As a general rule, words like "bonus", "extra", and "additional" mean the damage can crit. It can't crit when it comes from another source and isn't additive with the attack's own damage roll.
Once you've figured out how to cast a spell through a firearm - and good luck, because the rules don't cover it and the dictionary definition suggests you'll need a firearm shaped like a hula hoop - the rest of that rule is straightforward. Same issue as with Spirits Bards, actually, but if anything it's even more obvious with Spirits Bards that we genuinely have no idea what the word salad in casting through an object is even intended to mean. I would really like to watch a video of any of the rules devs playing with an Artillerist or Spirits Bard at their table, in the hopes of guessing at what was intended.