I'm asking more in terms of monsters than PCs. In our game last night I finally got to use Maddening Darkness. Our party was at the top of a 30-foot cliff, below us a chasm filled with lava. Frollicking below were some crazy monsters we've never seen (like an adult baby monster doll in diapers with ape-like hanging arms), and as they start approaching the base of the cliff I cast my spell encompassing all of them while leaving the clifftop untouched.
Now sure, they had to roll their saves and take damage as they all began their turn in the darkness, but within 1-round of movement they were all up on top of the cliff face and surrounding us (even if looking worse for wear).
This isn't about whether my DM handled this well, or legally. I don't care a ton about a specific instance. But I do want to get a feel for how other DMs handle their NPCs and monsters that are stuck in darkness. I've seen many videos of people trying to make their way through dark rooms. And in 99% of those cases they move slowly, with hands out, constantly losing track of their direction while expecting to run into a wall or something. So...chime in please!
I generally don't impose additional penalties unless orientation is required, in which case it automatically fails any ability check that requires sight to do so. If hearing can help orient yourself, such as during combat, i usually don't ask for a check.
If you don't see, hear or feel anything to orient yourself, I ask which direction you want to go (front, side, rear) and randomly determine any square or space you move to after the first (1d3 left -1, center-2, right-3), so you can be spot on in your orientation, but with high chance of deviating +/- 5 feet everytime you move 10+ feet. Only moving 5 feet usually means you get in the desired direction but movign any greater distance makes it harder to stay on course.
If the creatures are smart -- I know the situation you were in, these things have human-level intelligence -- they would recognize they're being attacked and work together to get out of it quickly. They'd communicate to discover who among them was confident leading the way, perhaps join hands, and slowly bumble their way out. It would probably take them at least a minute.
If the creatures are dumb, they probably scatter. One or two might just freeze in place. This could change if the primary way they experience the world isn't their sight -- if they're bats, for example. But I think such creatures are usually immune to blindness in their rules anyway.
There's an ebb and flow to DMing. Sometimes you want an improvised action to work perfectly because the party needs the help, sometimes you want to limit it a bit because they're not being challenged. Most times if you just rule in favor of the players, you're golden. (Gygax can't hear me say this.)
I'm less concerned with the baddies reaching the bottom of the cliff, as that would require continuing straight. But reddit making me feel crazy for thinking that climbing a 30-foot cliff wall while Blinded should be an auto-fail, or at least be painfully slow.
I don't necessarily think climbing a cliff while unable to see should automatically fail, but it would certainly be slower if you can't see handholds and have to find grips by feeling the surface with your touch. It could be a case for disadvantage.
In my games, I don't usually impose any penalty for moving in darkness or when blinded. It may not quite be realistic but the rules also don't impose any penalties for that situation so I haven't homebrewed any.
On the other hand, there are always exceptions. Moving through a room full of stuff that you didn't see before being blinded or in darkness, I might treat as difficult terrain depending on the circumstances.
Climbing a cliff might also be treated as difficult terrain and it might not. It might depend on whether the creatures live in this area or have been there a lot. Have they previously climbed this cliff, perhaps many times? Maybe they climb the cliff and dive onto the lava for fun? I don't know what creatures were involved or what abilities or experiences they might have in specific situations. Do the creatures have a climb speed? Given the rate that they ascended the cliff, darkness or not, it seems likely since otherwise it would have been difficult terrain. Do the creatures have any other senses? Blindsight etc?
Anyway, depending on several factors like the ones cited, climbing a cliff in darkness might vary from being marginally more difficult (not enough to make a difference) or significantly more difficult so that it might slow the creature down. In addition, if it was a particularly difficult climb that required seeing hand holds in order to jump to them then I'd rule it would not be possible while blinded/unable to see.
Not knowing what the monster can and cannot do is important, if they have some sort of earth sense that makes them immune to being blind the spell wound have no effect...call it lava sense or ability to sense things when within 100' of a lava source.
Having said that players and GM's are not perfect and make mistakes so this might be one of them...not it is not about the GM being wrong but it is about trying to figure out what to do in the future or encounters in the future.
So, I would ask the GM outside the game and not in a game situation, what happened and if they the GM could explain it or would it be better to do some RP to figure out what and why it went down that way.
I myself would not expect creatures in lava areas to have normal sight do to the gasses and heat but your game and GM may be different.
I interpret the 5e rules as deliberately making inability to see not very debilitating, mostly because if you actually make it as debilitating as it should be you should also make it much harder to achieve (i.e. no darkness or invisibility at level 2).
They're called Lava Children. OP is in a part of the Dungeon of the Mad Mage adventure. I remember it well.
These guys do have a climbing speed, but no special senses besides darkvision. They're also quite freaky.
Here's my opinion, after thinking about it a bit more: DM probably judged that the monsters could reach you faster than normal because it's more unsettling that way. That's kinda the point of this monster, imo. At least the way they're used here. Maybe not the right call, but understandable.
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I'm asking more in terms of monsters than PCs. In our game last night I finally got to use Maddening Darkness. Our party was at the top of a 30-foot cliff, below us a chasm filled with lava. Frollicking below were some crazy monsters we've never seen (like an adult baby monster doll in diapers with ape-like hanging arms), and as they start approaching the base of the cliff I cast my spell encompassing all of them while leaving the clifftop untouched.
Now sure, they had to roll their saves and take damage as they all began their turn in the darkness, but within 1-round of movement they were all up on top of the cliff face and surrounding us (even if looking worse for wear).
This isn't about whether my DM handled this well, or legally. I don't care a ton about a specific instance. But I do want to get a feel for how other DMs handle their NPCs and monsters that are stuck in darkness. I've seen many videos of people trying to make their way through dark rooms. And in 99% of those cases they move slowly, with hands out, constantly losing track of their direction while expecting to run into a wall or something. So...chime in please!
I generally don't impose additional penalties unless orientation is required, in which case it automatically fails any ability check that requires sight to do so. If hearing can help orient yourself, such as during combat, i usually don't ask for a check.
If you don't see, hear or feel anything to orient yourself, I ask which direction you want to go (front, side, rear) and randomly determine any square or space you move to after the first (1d3 left -1, center-2, right-3), so you can be spot on in your orientation, but with high chance of deviating +/- 5 feet everytime you move 10+ feet. Only moving 5 feet usually means you get in the desired direction but movign any greater distance makes it harder to stay on course.
If the creatures are smart -- I know the situation you were in, these things have human-level intelligence -- they would recognize they're being attacked and work together to get out of it quickly. They'd communicate to discover who among them was confident leading the way, perhaps join hands, and slowly bumble their way out. It would probably take them at least a minute.
If the creatures are dumb, they probably scatter. One or two might just freeze in place. This could change if the primary way they experience the world isn't their sight -- if they're bats, for example. But I think such creatures are usually immune to blindness in their rules anyway.
There's an ebb and flow to DMing. Sometimes you want an improvised action to work perfectly because the party needs the help, sometimes you want to limit it a bit because they're not being challenged. Most times if you just rule in favor of the players, you're golden. (Gygax can't hear me say this.)
You can still make a perception check even if you are blind. It is a combination of feeling your way, hearing, wind, scent.
I would rule that if you make your perception check, you go in the direction you desire, if you fail, you roll randomly.
I would also rule that right next to a cliff will be an easy check, DC 10, as the wind and lack of footing is a huge giveaway.
I'm less concerned with the baddies reaching the bottom of the cliff, as that would require continuing straight. But reddit making me feel crazy for thinking that climbing a 30-foot cliff wall while Blinded should be an auto-fail, or at least be painfully slow.
I don't necessarily think climbing a cliff while unable to see should automatically fail, but it would certainly be slower if you can't see handholds and have to find grips by feeling the surface with your touch. It could be a case for disadvantage.
I might treat it like difficult terrain, and slow their move by half. But if they had a climb speed, they still might get up pretty quickly.
In my games, I don't usually impose any penalty for moving in darkness or when blinded. It may not quite be realistic but the rules also don't impose any penalties for that situation so I haven't homebrewed any.
On the other hand, there are always exceptions. Moving through a room full of stuff that you didn't see before being blinded or in darkness, I might treat as difficult terrain depending on the circumstances.
Climbing a cliff might also be treated as difficult terrain and it might not. It might depend on whether the creatures live in this area or have been there a lot. Have they previously climbed this cliff, perhaps many times? Maybe they climb the cliff and dive onto the lava for fun? I don't know what creatures were involved or what abilities or experiences they might have in specific situations. Do the creatures have a climb speed? Given the rate that they ascended the cliff, darkness or not, it seems likely since otherwise it would have been difficult terrain. Do the creatures have any other senses? Blindsight etc?
Anyway, depending on several factors like the ones cited, climbing a cliff in darkness might vary from being marginally more difficult (not enough to make a difference) or significantly more difficult so that it might slow the creature down. In addition, if it was a particularly difficult climb that required seeing hand holds in order to jump to them then I'd rule it would not be possible while blinded/unable to see.
Not knowing what the monster can and cannot do is important, if they have some sort of earth sense that makes them immune to being blind the spell wound have no effect...call it lava sense or ability to sense things when within 100' of a lava source.
Having said that players and GM's are not perfect and make mistakes so this might be one of them...not it is not about the GM being wrong but it is about trying to figure out what to do in the future or encounters in the future.
So, I would ask the GM outside the game and not in a game situation, what happened and if they the GM could explain it or would it be better to do some RP to figure out what and why it went down that way.
I myself would not expect creatures in lava areas to have normal sight do to the gasses and heat but your game and GM may be different.
I interpret the 5e rules as deliberately making inability to see not very debilitating, mostly because if you actually make it as debilitating as it should be you should also make it much harder to achieve (i.e. no darkness or invisibility at level 2).
They're called Lava Children. OP is in a part of the Dungeon of the Mad Mage adventure. I remember it well.
These guys do have a climbing speed, but no special senses besides darkvision. They're also quite freaky.
Here's my opinion, after thinking about it a bit more: DM probably judged that the monsters could reach you faster than normal because it's more unsettling that way. That's kinda the point of this monster, imo. At least the way they're used here. Maybe not the right call, but understandable.