1) It's true that flails and morning stars weren't used much historically. However, if we're talking battle, neither were whips.
2) This is a fantasy game. I don't care if something was used historically...if it looks cool, I say use it.
3) All that being said, I would group any sort of segmented, flexible weapon together the same as 'reach' weapons or 'heavy' weapons and state that the enemy has 1 less AC if they are struck with a flail-type weapon. Note that this is NOT the same as a +1 to hit because the modifier does not imply any sort of magical bonus. This can be described as the flail being harder to deflect or dodge because of the unexpected nature of the swing. You can use this for something small like nunchaku or larger like a 2-handed flail.
2) This is a fantasy game. I don't care if something was used historically...if it looks cool, I say use it.
With the exception of the trident. It looks cool but it took a serious smack when they were creating it. I have only ever seen it used once and the guy dumped it after the first session.
2) This is a fantasy game. I don't care if something was used historically...if it looks cool, I say use it.
With the exception of the trident. It looks cool but it took a serious smack when they were creating it. I have only ever seen it used once and the guy dumped it after the first session.
This is true, which is why many homebrew it. Also, according to the most recent UA, Tridents get some much-needed love.
I recently started using a build with the flail as my main weapon. I started as a variant human for the sentinel feat. I then went into fighter for 5 levels, I took the flail mastery feat at level 4 and went for the Echo Knight subclass of fighter. At level 5 I can use my bonus action to summon my echo then attack 3 times due to Unleash Incarnation, followed by Action Surge for 3 more attacks.
with a 19 in strength atm I have a +8 to hit and deal 1d8+5 per hit. With 6 hits turn one that are fairly accurate with the +8 to hit, I can hit for 6d8+30 turn 1 and assuming no crits that's a minimum damage of 36 at level 5. Even on subsequent turns I get 3 attacks for two more rounds with an 18 Con giving me a minimum of 18 for two more turns and then dropping to a minimum of 12 damage every round after that.
By level 6 fighter I plan to take the Crusher feat that upon getting an AoO on the enemy I can knock them prone with flail master, knock them 5 feet with crusher, and drop their speed to 0 with sentinel.
Edit: I forgot to factor the dueling fighting style for damage so the minimum damage on turn 1 is actually 48 and turn 2+3 is 24 while subsequent turns it's 16 dpr minimum
If we were to go for average rolls then it would be 66 damage turn 1, 33 on turns 2-3, and all other rounds are 22 dpr
There are two big advantages to flail and morningstar and they are crusher and piercer which are both arguably better than slasher. Then there's having a build than can pick up any weird super powerful magic weapon you find - like a flail. In general beyond getting the highest damage you can for your damage type, the only consideration is style and that's a biggie.
If you think about it a flail is anything with a chain or joint in it, like nunchaku or a peasant's FLAIL which are really the same thing, used for threshing wheat, but also used in every peasant rebellion in history, which happened constantly. It goes pitchforks, flails, torches, sticks and rocks. Everybody wants the pitchfork but the flails reach farther. It's even more fun if you go nuts with it and pick something weird, like GoGo's ball on a chain in Kill Bill, or a rubber chicken nunchaku routine like in dungeon keeper.
Oh and HEMA experts might correct me on this, but I believe historically speaking, short flails also came to be used in trial by combat where people were heavily armored, because the chain keeps the impact from being transmitted to your arm. So you don't get nearly as tired hitting them over and over.
Oh and HEMA experts might correct me on this, but I believe historically speaking, short flails also came to be used in trial by combat where people were heavily armored, because the chain keeps the impact from being transmitted to your arm. So you don't get nearly as tired hitting them over and over.
Historically, there's barely any evidence that short (one-handed) flails were ever an actual weapon rather than having been made up by Renascence writers who confused long-handled flails with short-handled morningstars and maces.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Is this when the knights are all into having tiny waists and arms? If I was a writer I'd have stopped listening to the knights too. All I know for sure is little triple flails and crossbows that don't shoot with lots of metal on them sure make great overpriced souvenirs at tourist trap castles. ...the same kind of place with a dungeon for an extra 5 bucks with an iron maiden it it. OK I see your point.
A few points I wish to make:
1) It's true that flails and morning stars weren't used much historically. However, if we're talking battle, neither were whips.
2) This is a fantasy game. I don't care if something was used historically...if it looks cool, I say use it.
3) All that being said, I would group any sort of segmented, flexible weapon together the same as 'reach' weapons or 'heavy' weapons and state that the enemy has 1 less AC if they are struck with a flail-type weapon. Note that this is NOT the same as a +1 to hit because the modifier does not imply any sort of magical bonus. This can be described as the flail being harder to deflect or dodge because of the unexpected nature of the swing. You can use this for something small like nunchaku or larger like a 2-handed flail.
With the exception of the trident. It looks cool but it took a serious smack when they were creating it. I have only ever seen it used once and the guy dumped it after the first session.
This is true, which is why many homebrew it. Also, according to the most recent UA, Tridents get some much-needed love.
I recently started using a build with the flail as my main weapon. I started as a variant human for the sentinel feat. I then went into fighter for 5 levels, I took the flail mastery feat at level 4 and went for the Echo Knight subclass of fighter. At level 5 I can use my bonus action to summon my echo then attack 3 times due to Unleash Incarnation, followed by Action Surge for 3 more attacks.
with a 19 in strength atm I have a +8 to hit and deal 1d8+5 per hit. With 6 hits turn one that are fairly accurate with the +8 to hit, I can hit for 6d8+30 turn 1 and assuming no crits that's a minimum damage of 36 at level 5. Even on subsequent turns I get 3 attacks for two more rounds with an 18 Con giving me a minimum of 18 for two more turns and then dropping to a minimum of 12 damage every round after that.
By level 6 fighter I plan to take the Crusher feat that upon getting an AoO on the enemy I can knock them prone with flail master, knock them 5 feet with crusher, and drop their speed to 0 with sentinel.
Edit: I forgot to factor the dueling fighting style for damage so the minimum damage on turn 1 is actually 48 and turn 2+3 is 24 while subsequent turns it's 16 dpr minimum
If we were to go for average rolls then it would be 66 damage turn 1, 33 on turns 2-3, and all other rounds are 22 dpr
Flails did have an advantage in warfare, they could get over shields. That was the entire point of a flail.
There are two big advantages to flail and morningstar and they are crusher and piercer which are both arguably better than slasher. Then there's having a build than can pick up any weird super powerful magic weapon you find - like a flail. In general beyond getting the highest damage you can for your damage type, the only consideration is style and that's a biggie.
If you think about it a flail is anything with a chain or joint in it, like nunchaku or a peasant's FLAIL which are really the same thing, used for threshing wheat, but also used in every peasant rebellion in history, which happened constantly. It goes pitchforks, flails, torches, sticks and rocks. Everybody wants the pitchfork but the flails reach farther. It's even more fun if you go nuts with it and pick something weird, like GoGo's ball on a chain in Kill Bill, or a rubber chicken nunchaku routine like in dungeon keeper.
Oh and HEMA experts might correct me on this, but I believe historically speaking, short flails also came to be used in trial by combat where people were heavily armored, because the chain keeps the impact from being transmitted to your arm. So you don't get nearly as tired hitting them over and over.
Historically, there's barely any evidence that short (one-handed) flails were ever an actual weapon rather than having been made up by Renascence writers who confused long-handled flails with short-handled morningstars and maces.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Is this when the knights are all into having tiny waists and arms? If I was a writer I'd have stopped listening to the knights too. All I know for sure is little triple flails and crossbows that don't shoot with lots of metal on them sure make great overpriced souvenirs at tourist trap castles. ...the same kind of place with a dungeon for an extra 5 bucks with an iron maiden it it. OK I see your point.
I vote that they brinf Weapons Expertise back into D&D. Then there would be mechanical reasons to actually carry a few types of melee weapons around.
Devotee's Censer better than versatile?
I get it is class limited and magic, but I like it.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.