Any build that was built with the intent to synergize with other builds, especially ones built under the same premise. Ie. Build a perfect team, not a perfect individual.
The number of broken combinations that can be pulled off when you synergize in this way is truly remarkable. It just rarely gets seen in the wild because people make characters not teams, generally speaking. Most guides aren't written from that perspective. Instead, they try to factor out all team dynamics to showcase hw strong the character is individually. And, while the most OP individual builds do have some measure of a 'role' in which they'll belong to in a group, they typically view the 'group' they're going to be with as this nebulous uncertainty, a void of unreliable interaction.
If people designed optimized teams, instead of optimized characters, there'd be a whole lot more broken builds out there.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
That is a stupid trick. There is no offical FAQ about this, but while this is Rules As Written, it is very unlikely Rules As Intended and not Rules As Fun. This is as allowed as a coffeelock(technically allowed, but ruins the point)
Any sort of instakill or removal from combat will work. Power word Kill, overwhelming amounts of damage, Sickening Radiance, just Polymorph the Druid into a harmless turtle, etc.
Besides have you seen Wizard cheese? Infinite Simulacrums with 9th level spells, concentrating on a infinite number of spells via Glyph of Warding, Contingency -> Resilient Sphere, Wish, I'm just saying you would have to ban a lot. As mentioned by someone else, all of the above is not only RAW but also RAI.
Although infinite simulacrums are definitely not RAF for the DM, but that's not why we have this thread.
Any build that was built with the intent to synergize with other builds, especially ones built under the same premise. Ie. Build a perfect team, not a perfect individual.
The number of broken combinations that can be pulled off when you synergize in this way is truly remarkable. It just rarely gets seen in the wild because people make characters not teams, generally speaking. Most guides aren't written from that perspective. Instead, they try to factor out all team dynamics to showcase hw strong the character is individually. And, while the most OP individual builds do have some measure of a 'role' in which they'll belong to in a group, they typically view the 'group' they're going to be with as this nebulous uncertainty, a void of unreliable interaction.
If people designed optimized teams, instead of optimized characters, there'd be a whole lot more broken builds out there.
Optimized teams are a little harder to compare than optimized characters, and I think everyone generally agrees a group of optimized characters is going to not do so well against a optimized team. It's just teams are harder to discuss, both in actual play (you only control your character not everyone else's), and in whiteroom (4 characters is 4x the work, probably more cause team synergies, and again harder to compare).
Dragonborn or Aasimar Paladin/Warlock (Hexblade) multi class. The synergy is insane with both classes being charisma-based, not to mention Oath of Vengeance, smites, hexes, Lay on Hands, and proficient in all armors. I’d allow it as a DM IF they could fit the class switch into the story,
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TheMadArkitekt
Minister of Fear Chairman of the Bored and Mayor of a little village just up the coast...
Dragonborn or Aasimar Paladin/Warlock (Hexblade) multi class. The synergy is insane with both classes being charisma-based, not to mention Oath of Vengeance, smites, hexes, Lay on Hands, and proficient in all armors. I’d allow it as a DM IF they could fit the class switch into the story,
"I made a pact with a dark entity to give me the power I needed to enact vengeance on those I've sworn to defeat" this combo sorta writes itself.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A warforged coffeelock (I think) doesn't need long rests.
A wizard with a 2 hour to make wish contract is unstoppable.
Unpopular Facts: Toll the Dead is more powerful than eldritch blast if the enemy is below absolute max health this gives up the AOE side of eldritch blast but for more base damage (Not including agonizing blast).
A level 20 cleric in the domain of a creator deity in a setting can call for that deity to murder everyone that poses a threat.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
Warforged Coffeelock DOES NOT need long rests. It's quite insane, especially since unlimited spell slots means unlimited sorcery points... imagine the insane nova of quickening and empowering a high-damage spell, then twinning and empowering eldritch blast (you can do two spells in a turn if one is a cantrip with a casting time of one action, like eldritch blast). Then imagine being able to do it EVERY OTHER TURN (one turn's bonus action would need to be devoted to recharging sorcery points). It's truly insane. And if you take Divine Soul to get cleric spells, most of the badness of missing long rests can be avoided with some spell or another. In fact, when it comes down to it, there's very few things spells won't solve... and you have lots of spells! If the DM gives pretty much any downtime, you're suddenly insanely powerful, and it gets off the ground as early as 3rd level. It also synegrizes well with (slightly) less powergame-y Sorlock builds. As with most power-builds, I'd allow it if the player could give a good explanation, because I love seeing what players come up with for these things. Then I'd subtly double monster HP. Most DMs would just flat-out ban it, though. It's pretty much the apex of powergaming in 5e.
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Will everyone stop calling him "The Demogorgon"? It's his name, not a title!
Why do people keep saying that the Warforged "does not need long rests"? The Sentry's Rest feature specifically calls out alterations to their long rests, without removing the need for them.
Eberron: Rising From the Last War pg 36.
Sentry's Rest. When you take a long rest, you must spend at least six hours in an inactive, motionless state, rather than sleeping. In this state, you appear inert, but it doesn't render you unconscious, and you can see and hear as normal.
Nothing in that removes the need for Warforged to long rest.
Similarly, the Elves' Trance, the Tomb Warlock's Aspect of the Moon, etc change the long rest mechanics, without removing the need to long rest.
To my knowledge there are only two ways to RAW sustainably Coffeelock.
1: 10 levels of Ranger (for the Tireless feature from TCoE), with your choice of split between Sorcerer and Warlock levels for the other ten, with any subclasses you like for all three classes.
2: 5 levels of Creation Bard (to be able to spend a L2 spell slot to create the diamond dust for Greater Restoration. If a DM is pedantic about the definition of "one nonmagical object", you can create a larger diamond that's pre-fractured throughout, needing just a tap to crumble it into dust) with at least 9 levels of Divine Soul Sorcerer (so you can know the spell Greater Restoration, and be able to create L5 slots to cast it, with the rest of your levels being in your chosen variant of Warlock.
To a lesser extent a character can generate extra spell slots daily by taking a race that Long Rests in only 4 hours, freeing up the rest of the time the party is long resting to chain short rests for a few extra spell slots every day, while still long resting every day. Your highest level spells available will lag behind a bit, but you can potentially have significantly more spells available every day for spells like Shield, Silvery Barbs, and Absorb Elements.
Unpopular Facts: Toll the Dead is more powerful than eldritch blast if the enemy is below absolute max health this gives up the AOE side of eldritch blast but for more base damage (Not including agonizing blast).
Toll the Dead's damage die is a d12, and doesn't add your ability score modifier unless you wait for the 8th level of certain types of Cleric to get it.
Eldritch Blast's damage die is a d10, and it gets to add your ability score modifier as early as 2nd level.
At L1, Toll the Dead wins out only if the target is already damaged (avg 6.5 over EB's 5.5)
At L2, TtD's avg is still 6.5, but EB's increases to 8.5.
At L5, TtD's avg increases to 13, but EB's increases to 19.
At L8, TtD's avg increases to 18, but EB's increases to 21.
At L11, TtD's avg increases to 24.5, but EB's increases to 31.5.
I could keep going, but From L2 onward, Toll the Dead never catches up to Eldritch Blast (assuming the castings are hitting their marks)
Unpopular Facts: Toll the Dead is more powerful than eldritch blast if the enemy is below absolute max health this gives up the AOE side of eldritch blast but for more base damage (Not including agonizing blast).
Toll the Dead's damage die is a d12, and doesn't add your ability score modifier unless you wait for the 8th level of certain types of Cleric to get it.
Eldritch Blast's damage die is a d10, and it gets to add your ability score modifier as early as 2nd level.
At L1, Toll the Dead wins out only if the target is already damaged (avg 6.5 over EB's 5.5)
At L2, TtD's avg is still 6.5, but EB's increases to 8.5.
At L5, TtD's avg increases to 13, but EB's increases to 19.
At L8, TtD's avg increases to 18, but EB's increases to 21.
At L11, TtD's avg increases to 24.5, but EB's increases to 31.5.
I could keep going, but From L2 onward, Toll the Dead never catches up to Eldritch Blast (assuming the castings are hitting their marks)
Yeah, saying "EB isn't as good when you don't count Agonizing Blast" is like saying "Fighters do more damage than Wizards when you don't count spells." Agonizing Blast, and the other EB invocation, are the true strength of EB; on it's own, it's solid but not amazing.
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Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
Also, can kill Tiamat at level 1 (2, if counting fealty levels)
Ever wanted an ARMY of minions casting big spells? Well in this guide I’ll show you how to! At Level 1! So, you see, this can work at level 1, and it’s so ez, your DM will cry!
So let’s go over the character real quick!
So they can either be Variant Human - [Telikenetic Feat] Wizard 1, Knight Background,
Make sure you get the find familiar spell. it must be Fey.
So, why do I care so darn much about the Familiar? Well your familiar is Fey! Can you see where this is going? No? I’m disappointed in you, theoretical internet optimizer.
You make a Fey Contract of course! So you gain Fey Ancestry in exchange for your name. You choose a new name. Your new name is Qwerty. More on this later! [after we go through why the Knight Background was necessary.
Yeah, so murd3r one of your Chaotic Retainers, and pray above their body to Devil McMeanie. So ask for da Wish spell in exchange for Fealty.
(Diabolical Deals)
Well, so what’s Fealty? You gain a level of Warlock, and you must choose Fiend within it. Additional Cheese, maybe: (If you use Tasha’s subclass switching your DM might say you can change it to Genie and get a Ring of Three Wishes. I think that personally it doesn’t work so this doesn’t really work). Oh no, you gained a level! Tragedy, tragedy!
(Ha, ha, free level)
Simulate da Wish Spell -> copies the effects of Mordenkainen’s Magnificent Mansion, which is of course decorated with Wish Scrolls and Time Stop Scrolls and Tomes of (Understanding, Bodily Health, Clear Thought, Gainful Excersice, Leadership + Influence, and Quickness to Action.) Since you cant read them all, just have a lot of them and now you can get 30 in all ability scores. With your wishes, keep on making simulacra AND max out everything. Then that’s great. So you have an army.. Of Level 2 Artlocks.
So? I mean I guess they could all shoot low level blast spells and create a nuke but.. Oh yeah, Find Familiar Contracts (totally RAI). An army of Artlocks that happen to be able to cast a 4TH LEVEL concentration spell + Blasting (Like Sickening Radiance or Evards Black Tentacles)-> then cast Find Greater Steed for a minion..
So now if you only had 99 simulacra (why? You could’ve gotten millions!)
Assuming you only created 99 simulacra, you now have 400 Concentration spells running, (because 1 you + 99 simulacra + your greater steed + 99 simulacra greater steed + 100 familiars!)
Oh, and your buddies are spamming stuff like Ice Storm AoE, Vitriolic Sphere AoE, Blight, and other bam bam spells.
So now if you only made 6, if they all cast Sickening Radiance = Level 6 Exhaustion. So now you have theoretically infinite casts of 4th level spells. I mean like that’s great and all but what about that wizard? Well first of all DON’T group all together, that makes it too ez to Fireball the heck out of ya. If you’re feeling squishy cast Polymorph (4th level spell :P) to get some HP like wild shape. Oh, yes, and we’re being Onyx for no damage taken! And now if you’re polymorphed no more blasting but you can just Onyx when you’re low!
Oh, wow! Thanks to your familiars, and Artlocks, you guys now all have Fey Ancestry. Sweet! Now we can all give Fey Contracts for Level 4 Spells. So now 400 Concentration (you need probably 6 sickening radiance casters for instakills), and you can also cast blasts like Blight on your turn. Oh, and did I mention that you’re only Level 2? (supposed to be level 1 but fealty :P)
yeah, so this is op because infinite simalacrums and at will 4th level spells
I don't get it. Can someone pls explain this with way less words?
If you are talking about Twilight_Cleric's post then you can pretty much just ignore it. The only way it happens is if he the DM of his own game while also being the only player in it lol.
I don't get it. Can someone pls explain this with way less words?
If you are talking about Twilight_Cleric's post then you can pretty much just ignore it. The only way it happens is if he the DM of his own game while also being the only player in it lol.
Any build that was built with the intent to synergize with other builds, especially ones built under the same premise. Ie. Build a perfect team, not a perfect individual.
The number of broken combinations that can be pulled off when you synergize in this way is truly remarkable. It just rarely gets seen in the wild because people make characters not teams, generally speaking. Most guides aren't written from that perspective. Instead, they try to factor out all team dynamics to showcase hw strong the character is individually. And, while the most OP individual builds do have some measure of a 'role' in which they'll belong to in a group, they typically view the 'group' they're going to be with as this nebulous uncertainty, a void of unreliable interaction.
If people designed optimized teams, instead of optimized characters, there'd be a whole lot more broken builds out there.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Any sort of instakill or removal from combat will work. Power word Kill, overwhelming amounts of damage, Sickening Radiance, just Polymorph the Druid into a harmless turtle, etc.
Besides have you seen Wizard cheese? Infinite Simulacrums with 9th level spells, concentrating on a infinite number of spells via Glyph of Warding, Contingency -> Resilient Sphere, Wish, I'm just saying you would have to ban a lot. As mentioned by someone else, all of the above is not only RAW but also RAI.
Although infinite simulacrums are definitely not RAF for the DM, but that's not why we have this thread.
Optimized teams are a little harder to compare than optimized characters, and I think everyone generally agrees a group of optimized characters is going to not do so well against a optimized team. It's just teams are harder to discuss, both in actual play (you only control your character not everyone else's), and in whiteroom (4 characters is 4x the work, probably more cause team synergies, and again harder to compare).
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Dragonborn or Aasimar Paladin/Warlock (Hexblade) multi class. The synergy is insane with both classes being charisma-based, not to mention Oath of Vengeance, smites, hexes, Lay on Hands, and proficient in all armors. I’d allow it as a DM IF they could fit the class switch into the story,
TheMadArkitekt
Minister of Fear
Chairman of the Bored
and Mayor of a little village just up the coast...
"I made a pact with a dark entity to give me the power I needed to enact vengeance on those I've sworn to defeat" this combo sorta writes itself.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A few things
A warforged coffeelock (I think) doesn't need long rests.
A wizard with a 2 hour to make wish contract is unstoppable.
Unpopular Facts: Toll the Dead is more powerful than eldritch blast if the enemy is below absolute max health this gives up the AOE side of eldritch blast but for more base damage (Not including agonizing blast).
A level 20 cleric in the domain of a creator deity in a setting can call for that deity to murder everyone that poses a threat.
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
Drummer Generated Title
After having been invited to include both here, I now combine the "PM me CHEESE 🧀 and tomato into PM me "PIZZA🍕"
Warforged Coffeelock DOES NOT need long rests. It's quite insane, especially since unlimited spell slots means unlimited sorcery points... imagine the insane nova of quickening and empowering a high-damage spell, then twinning and empowering eldritch blast (you can do two spells in a turn if one is a cantrip with a casting time of one action, like eldritch blast). Then imagine being able to do it EVERY OTHER TURN (one turn's bonus action would need to be devoted to recharging sorcery points). It's truly insane. And if you take Divine Soul to get cleric spells, most of the badness of missing long rests can be avoided with some spell or another. In fact, when it comes down to it, there's very few things spells won't solve... and you have lots of spells! If the DM gives pretty much any downtime, you're suddenly insanely powerful, and it gets off the ground as early as 3rd level. It also synegrizes well with (slightly) less powergame-y Sorlock builds. As with most power-builds, I'd allow it if the player could give a good explanation, because I love seeing what players come up with for these things. Then I'd subtly double monster HP. Most DMs would just flat-out ban it, though. It's pretty much the apex of powergaming in 5e.
Will everyone stop calling him "The Demogorgon"? It's his name, not a title!
Why do people keep saying that the Warforged "does not need long rests"? The Sentry's Rest feature specifically calls out alterations to their long rests, without removing the need for them.
Eberron: Rising From the Last War pg 36.
Nothing in that removes the need for Warforged to long rest.
Similarly, the Elves' Trance, the Tomb Warlock's Aspect of the Moon, etc change the long rest mechanics, without removing the need to long rest.
To my knowledge there are only two ways to RAW sustainably Coffeelock.
1: 10 levels of Ranger (for the Tireless feature from TCoE), with your choice of split between Sorcerer and Warlock levels for the other ten, with any subclasses you like for all three classes.
2: 5 levels of Creation Bard (to be able to spend a L2 spell slot to create the diamond dust for Greater Restoration. If a DM is pedantic about the definition of "one nonmagical object", you can create a larger diamond that's pre-fractured throughout, needing just a tap to crumble it into dust) with at least 9 levels of Divine Soul Sorcerer (so you can know the spell Greater Restoration, and be able to create L5 slots to cast it, with the rest of your levels being in your chosen variant of Warlock.
To a lesser extent a character can generate extra spell slots daily by taking a race that Long Rests in only 4 hours, freeing up the rest of the time the party is long resting to chain short rests for a few extra spell slots every day, while still long resting every day. Your highest level spells available will lag behind a bit, but you can potentially have significantly more spells available every day for spells like Shield, Silvery Barbs, and Absorb Elements.
Toll the Dead's damage die is a d12, and doesn't add your ability score modifier unless you wait for the 8th level of certain types of Cleric to get it.
Eldritch Blast's damage die is a d10, and it gets to add your ability score modifier as early as 2nd level.
At L1, Toll the Dead wins out only if the target is already damaged (avg 6.5 over EB's 5.5)
At L2, TtD's avg is still 6.5, but EB's increases to 8.5.
At L5, TtD's avg increases to 13, but EB's increases to 19.
At L8, TtD's avg increases to 18, but EB's increases to 21.
At L11, TtD's avg increases to 24.5, but EB's increases to 31.5.
I could keep going, but From L2 onward, Toll the Dead never catches up to Eldritch Blast (assuming the castings are hitting their marks)
Yeah, saying "EB isn't as good when you don't count Agonizing Blast" is like saying "Fighters do more damage than Wizards when you don't count spells." Agonizing Blast, and the other EB invocation, are the true strength of EB; on it's own, it's solid but not amazing.
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
Level 1 OP build: The Penguin God
Also, can kill Tiamat at level 1 (2, if counting fealty levels)
Ever wanted an ARMY of minions casting big spells? Well in this guide I’ll show you how to! At Level 1! So, you see, this can work at level 1, and it’s so ez, your DM will cry!
So let’s go over the character real quick!
So they can either be Variant Human - [Telikenetic Feat] Wizard 1, Knight Background,
Make sure you get the find familiar spell. it must be Fey.
So, why do I care so darn much about the Familiar? Well your familiar is Fey! Can you see where this is going? No? I’m disappointed in you, theoretical internet optimizer.
You make a Fey Contract of course! So you gain Fey Ancestry in exchange for your name. You choose a new name. Your new name is Qwerty. More on this later! [after we go through why the Knight Background was necessary.
Yeah, so murd3r one of your Chaotic Retainers, and pray above their body to Devil McMeanie. So ask for da Wish spell in exchange for Fealty.
(Diabolical Deals)
Well, so what’s Fealty? You gain a level of Warlock, and you must choose Fiend within it. Additional Cheese, maybe: (If you use Tasha’s subclass switching your DM might say you can change it to Genie and get a Ring of Three Wishes. I think that personally it doesn’t work so this doesn’t really work). Oh no, you gained a level! Tragedy, tragedy!
(Ha, ha, free level)
Simulate da Wish Spell -> copies the effects of Mordenkainen’s Magnificent Mansion, which is of course decorated with Wish Scrolls and Time Stop Scrolls and Tomes of (Understanding, Bodily Health, Clear Thought, Gainful Excersice, Leadership + Influence, and Quickness to Action.) Since you cant read them all, just have a lot of them and now you can get 30 in all ability scores. With your wishes, keep on making simulacra AND max out everything. Then that’s great. So you have an army.. Of Level 2 Artlocks.
So? I mean I guess they could all shoot low level blast spells and create a nuke but.. Oh yeah, Find Familiar Contracts (totally RAI). An army of Artlocks that happen to be able to cast a 4TH LEVEL concentration spell + Blasting (Like Sickening Radiance or Evards Black Tentacles)-> then cast Find Greater Steed for a minion..
So now if you only had 99 simulacra (why? You could’ve gotten millions!)
Assuming you only created 99 simulacra, you now have 400 Concentration spells running, (because 1 you + 99 simulacra + your greater steed + 99 simulacra greater steed + 100 familiars!)
Oh, and your buddies are spamming stuff like Ice Storm AoE, Vitriolic Sphere AoE, Blight, and other bam bam spells.
So now if you only made 6, if they all cast Sickening Radiance = Level 6 Exhaustion. So now you have theoretically infinite casts of 4th level spells. I mean like that’s great and all but what about that wizard? Well first of all DON’T group all together, that makes it too ez to Fireball the heck out of ya. If you’re feeling squishy cast Polymorph (4th level spell :P) to get some HP like wild shape. Oh, yes, and we’re being Onyx for no damage taken! And now if you’re polymorphed no more blasting but you can just Onyx when you’re low!
Oh, wow! Thanks to your familiars, and Artlocks, you guys now all have Fey Ancestry. Sweet! Now we can all give Fey Contracts for Level 4 Spells. So now 400 Concentration (you need probably 6 sickening radiance casters for instakills), and you can also cast blasts like Blight on your turn. Oh, and did I mention that you’re only Level 2? (supposed to be level 1 but fealty :P)
yeah, so this is op because infinite simalacrums and at will 4th level spells
I don't get it. Can someone pls explain this with way less words?
If you are talking about Twilight_Cleric's post then you can pretty much just ignore it. The only way it happens is if he the DM of his own game while also being the only player in it lol.
Spot on and hilarious
Aight bet. Thanks