Oh, I dunno...maybe I figured the whole "we're redoing the edition and fixing things that need fixing before issuing a new set of core books" bit was a good time to maybe diversify and see about unhooking Superiority from the one single subclass nobody seems to like despite everybody saying "this is really popular so play it!" and broaden it out to a wider audience.
As I laid out in the thread starter post: Superiority is the system that fixes Basic Bonk, or at least the system that's come closest out of all the garbage Wizards has thrown out there. It's Martial Spellcasting save without spells and is just as versatile and expansible as spellcasting is. The system needs wider usage and adoption, as no matter what fans of overly simplistic combat say, they cannot deny the constant grumbling and complaints that martial combat in R5e is overly simplistic and boring. They may not agree, but they cannot claim those grumblings don't exist.
One would figure fans of Basic Bonk would be all for lessening Superiority's dependence on fighter and making it more widely available, ne?
Oh, I dunno...maybe I figured the whole "we're redoing the edition and fixing things that need fixing before issuing a new set of core books" bit was a good time to maybe diversify and see about unhooking Superiority from the one single subclass nobody seems to like despite everybody saying "this is really popular so play it!" and broaden it out to a wider audience.
As I laid out in the thread starter post: Superiority is the system that fixes Basic Bonk, or at least the system that's come closest out of all the garbage Wizards has thrown out there. It's Martial Spellcasting save without spells and is just as versatile and expansible as spellcasting is. The system needs wider usage and adoption, as no matter what fans of overly simplistic combat say, they cannot deny the constant grumbling and complaints that martial combat in R5e is overly simplistic and boring. They may not agree, but they cannot claim those grumblings don't exist.
One would figure fans of Basic Bonk would be all for lessening Superiority's dependence on fighter and making it more widely available, ne?
And if it gets added, in some capacity, as a 1st-level feat, then players will have the option of creating a background which gives them that feat. But we don't yet know what it might look like in the next book, which is still two years away. It could be done away with, because it's so archetype specific. It could be made far more powerful and locked behind a higher level. Or it could be made weaker and baseline, like the Initiator classes from the old Tome of Battle. Who knows?
But all this endless speculation and public pleadings just makes noise to drive an algorithm. It's not even good discourse. Just noise.
In any case, I stand by my words from before. [redacted]
Notes: Personal attacks will not be allowed. You may disagree with each other, but remember to remain civil.
My "disdain" for Basic Bonk is no such thing. My "disdain" for Basic Bonk is disdain for the oft-proposed idea that Basic Bonk is somehow morally superior to Advanced Bonk and that people who actually learn the rules of the game and seek to engage with them should be punished for doing so rather than rewarded. That is the stance being taken in the other thread, which you continue to insist on dragging into this one, and I will never not protest the idea that people who ask for more from their game than "I hit it wit' mah Hittin' Stick!" are bad nasty awful people who should quit D&D forever.
There are currently zero martial class options for fans of Advanced Bonk. No, paladin does not count - dingdongs are Basic Bonk + minor spellcasting, with very little interaction between Bonk and Burn. Ditto rangers. Monks tried to be Advanced Bonk, but that didn't work out so great for them. Subclasses in R5e are not allowed to be impactful or transformative enough to take a Basic Bonk character and turn it into an Advanced Bonk character. Battle Master gave it an absolutely mighty try, and frankly came the closest to succeeding of any player option in R5e...which is why Superiority should be made more widely and readily available to players outside of the Battle Master subclass.
Superiority is the closest we currently have to Advanced Bonk, and it is only truly available to one subclass of one class - and that subclass is in danger of being culled from 1DD because of people demanding fighter be simplified even more than the R5e version to cater to fans of Basic Bonk at the explicit and malicious expense of fans of Advanced Bonk. if y'all want Simple Figher(C) so much, let us put Superiority into the game in other places. That's what you're after, right? Absolutely no depth, engagement, or complexity whatsoever in fighter? Fine. Have it. Take it. But NOT before Superiority becomes available elsewhere for people who're sick unto death of Hittin' Stick-based combat encounters.
You're inventing arguments. Nobody has called your Basic Bonk "morally superior."
I don't know why you're throwing around insults like "dingdongs" or using R5e, I don't even know what that means, but this needs to end. Not everything is a fight or is worth getting defensive over. Lose the chip on your shoulder. You're just making things worse.
I've been calling paladins palladalladingdongs, or simply dingdongs for short, since I joined the board. They don't like it, they can stop perpetuating the Captain Justice, Lord of Lawful Stupid memes. "R5e", as I have already explained, simply means Release 5e and is an easy way of differentiating between the 5e of 2014 and the upcoming 5e of 2024. 'Basic Bonk' is hardly mine; the last three fighters in games I've been in were all Battle Masters who made exceptionally effective use of Superiority. Hell, our cleric in the Eberron game has been making excellent use of Superiority in the form of Martial Adept.
Now. Do you actually intend to engage with the discussion, or are you just needling me because you don't care for my delivery?
I've been calling paladins palladalladingdongs, or simply dingdongs for short, since I joined the board. They don't like it, they can stop perpetuating the Captain Justice, Lord of Lawful Stupid memes. "R5e", as I have already explained, simply means Release 5e and is an easy way of differentiating between the 5e of 2014 and the upcoming 5e of 2024. 'Basic Bonk' is hardly mine; the last three fighters in games I've been in were all Battle Masters who made exceptionally effective use of Superiority. Hell, our cleric in the Eberron game has been making excellent use of Superiority in the form of Martial Adept.
Now. Do you actually intend to engage with the discussion, or are you just needling me because you don't care for my delivery?
I have been engaging with you. I already said it would likely be a fine replacement; especially in light of Magic Initiate being a starting option. And I also gave cause as to why it wasn't included. A new version of the feat would require new maneuvers, and that wasn't going to rear its head in the Origins packet. We might see it added in a class packet, but I wouldn't hold our breath. The concern at that point would be testing class mechanics, and origins are already covered. It's possible, but I wouldn't say it's likely.
Having said all that, your delivery has always left something to be desired from me. [redacted] Take that how you will.
Notes: Personal attacks will not be allowed. You may disagree with each other, but remember to remain civil.
I don't think we need to take savage attacker away, but I'd be fine with martial adept as a level 1 feat. Actually, I'd be fine with just about all the "adept" feats as level 1 feats.
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"Not all those who wander are lost"
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Oh, I dunno...maybe I figured the whole "we're redoing the edition and fixing things that need fixing before issuing a new set of core books" bit was a good time to maybe diversify and see about unhooking Superiority from the one single subclass nobody seems to like despite everybody saying "this is really popular so play it!" and broaden it out to a wider audience.
As I laid out in the thread starter post: Superiority is the system that fixes Basic Bonk, or at least the system that's come closest out of all the garbage Wizards has thrown out there. It's Martial Spellcasting save without spells and is just as versatile and expansible as spellcasting is. The system needs wider usage and adoption, as no matter what fans of overly simplistic combat say, they cannot deny the constant grumbling and complaints that martial combat in R5e is overly simplistic and boring. They may not agree, but they cannot claim those grumblings don't exist.
One would figure fans of Basic Bonk would be all for lessening Superiority's dependence on fighter and making it more widely available, ne?
Please do not contact or message me.
And if it gets added, in some capacity, as a 1st-level feat, then players will have the option of creating a background which gives them that feat. But we don't yet know what it might look like in the next book, which is still two years away. It could be done away with, because it's so archetype specific. It could be made far more powerful and locked behind a higher level. Or it could be made weaker and baseline, like the Initiator classes from the old Tome of Battle. Who knows?
But all this endless speculation and public pleadings just makes noise to drive an algorithm. It's not even good discourse. Just noise.
In any case, I stand by my words from before. [redacted]
My "disdain" for Basic Bonk is no such thing. My "disdain" for Basic Bonk is disdain for the oft-proposed idea that Basic Bonk is somehow morally superior to Advanced Bonk and that people who actually learn the rules of the game and seek to engage with them should be punished for doing so rather than rewarded. That is the stance being taken in the other thread, which you continue to insist on dragging into this one, and I will never not protest the idea that people who ask for more from their game than "I hit it wit' mah Hittin' Stick!" are bad nasty awful people who should quit D&D forever.
There are currently zero martial class options for fans of Advanced Bonk. No, paladin does not count - dingdongs are Basic Bonk + minor spellcasting, with very little interaction between Bonk and Burn. Ditto rangers. Monks tried to be Advanced Bonk, but that didn't work out so great for them. Subclasses in R5e are not allowed to be impactful or transformative enough to take a Basic Bonk character and turn it into an Advanced Bonk character. Battle Master gave it an absolutely mighty try, and frankly came the closest to succeeding of any player option in R5e...which is why Superiority should be made more widely and readily available to players outside of the Battle Master subclass.
Superiority is the closest we currently have to Advanced Bonk, and it is only truly available to one subclass of one class - and that subclass is in danger of being culled from 1DD because of people demanding fighter be simplified even more than the R5e version to cater to fans of Basic Bonk at the explicit and malicious expense of fans of Advanced Bonk. if y'all want Simple Figher(C) so much, let us put Superiority into the game in other places. That's what you're after, right? Absolutely no depth, engagement, or complexity whatsoever in fighter? Fine. Have it. Take it. But NOT before Superiority becomes available elsewhere for people who're sick unto death of Hittin' Stick-based combat encounters.
Please do not contact or message me.
You're inventing arguments. Nobody has called your Basic Bonk "morally superior."
I don't know why you're throwing around insults like "dingdongs" or using R5e, I don't even know what that means, but this needs to end. Not everything is a fight or is worth getting defensive over. Lose the chip on your shoulder. You're just making things worse.
I've been calling paladins palladalladingdongs, or simply dingdongs for short, since I joined the board. They don't like it, they can stop perpetuating the Captain Justice, Lord of Lawful Stupid memes. "R5e", as I have already explained, simply means Release 5e and is an easy way of differentiating between the 5e of 2014 and the upcoming 5e of 2024. 'Basic Bonk' is hardly mine; the last three fighters in games I've been in were all Battle Masters who made exceptionally effective use of Superiority. Hell, our cleric in the Eberron game has been making excellent use of Superiority in the form of Martial Adept.
Now. Do you actually intend to engage with the discussion, or are you just needling me because you don't care for my delivery?
Please do not contact or message me.
I have been engaging with you. I already said it would likely be a fine replacement; especially in light of Magic Initiate being a starting option. And I also gave cause as to why it wasn't included. A new version of the feat would require new maneuvers, and that wasn't going to rear its head in the Origins packet. We might see it added in a class packet, but I wouldn't hold our breath. The concern at that point would be testing class mechanics, and origins are already covered. It's possible, but I wouldn't say it's likely.
Having said all that, your delivery has always left something to be desired from me. [redacted] Take that how you will.
I don't think we need to take savage attacker away, but I'd be fine with martial adept as a level 1 feat. Actually, I'd be fine with just about all the "adept" feats as level 1 feats.
"Not all those who wander are lost"