I was thinking in a simpler solution: give the Ranger proficiency and Expertise in Nature and Survival as bonus, like the Survavilist feature from Scout Rogue. Would fit the theme, give flavor and not break the game.
I was thinking in a simpler solution: give the Ranger proficiency and Expertise in Nature and Survival as bonus, like the Survavilist feature from Scout Rogue. Would fit the theme, give flavor and not break the game.
I feel like this doesn't address the concerns a few of us have in that Expertise DOESN'T add flavour. We've already got that under the ODD Ranger. All your actually getting is Expertise in two additional skills.
And then for some reason the ranger is the class carrying more Expertise than Bard and Rogue.
And a Rogue with Expertise in Survival or Nature could still do exactly the same thing as competently.
I was thinking in a simpler solution: give the Ranger proficiency and Expertise in Nature and Survival as bonus, like the Survavilist feature from Scout Rogue. Would fit the theme, give flavor and not break the game.
I feel like this doesn't address the concerns a few of us have in that Expertise DOESN'T add flavour. We've already got that under the ODD Ranger. All your actually getting is Expertise in two additional skills.
And then for some reason the ranger is the class carrying more Expertise than Bard and Rogue.
And a Rogue with Expertise in Survival or Nature could still do exactly the same thing as competently.
Yeah, I see your point and agree that is too simple and not very singular to the Ranger.
the PHB exploration features were actually quite good at making you feel a ranger the problem was they were too dependent on dm interpretation rather than obvious use case. They needed cleaner wording not complete rewrites.
Uses per day would help guarantee the ranger got fulfillment out of Double Prof and advantage.
Changing Primeval awareness to allow Changes (based on what is detected)to your most recent favored enemy or terrain would also be cleaner.
There's still no difficult terrain ignoring as well. Wotc may be trying to rebalance it though.(slowed condition hints this might be the case)
It's not like this is absent from the PDF - it's available (in a limited fashion) from the Speedster feat (which also provides the same +10' to Walk when not in Heavy Armor that Roving does, although the two bonuses will stack).
One thing they could have done and just didn't is make Roving a choice from a menu of mobility options, although also on the table was replacing the +10' with ignoring Difficult Terrain. Bearing in mind the playtest rules appear to change how ice works so we can't be sure what all they intend to change, here are 8 different mobility options based on the playtest rules since the original Ranger chose from 8 biomes - you could mix and match these to build a new Roving feature:
Walking speed +10' when not in Heavy Armor
Ignore Difficult Terrain
Swim Speed = Walk Speed and double how long you can hold your breath (doubling twice is 3x)
Climb Speed = Walk Speed
Burrow Speed = Half Walk Speed and double how long you can hold your breath (doubling twice is 3x)
Reliable Talent on Athletics and Acrobatics checks
That is something I thought would be interesting to change, have the spell feed into itself by allowing a successful track check to be a method of targeting a creature as long as they are within one mile or something. Then once targeted they now have advantage on tracking them.
That would be pretty cool, actually. Have that be a special enhancement the Ranger class gets for Hunter's Mark like how the hunter sub-class also boosts Hunter's Mark.
Maybe when you cast Hunter's Mark after a successful Survival roll to track the target it doesn't cost a spell slot like it would if you just cast it mid-combat too. That'd save on spell slot usage while encouraging the ranger to try to track targets with survival before battle starts.
Reading the comments, I understand that the Natural Explorer could trivialize the Exploration factor of the game. So, I came up with I few solutions in that feature, that would take less changes as possible. Here we go:
After an hour (or a day) of traveling
Even when you are engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
After a day (or 3 days) of traveling
Difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.Make an Acrobatics (Dexterity) check (DC 15 or DM's choice). If you succeed, difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.
When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
Your group can’t become lost except by magical means.You have advantage in Survival (Wisdom) checks to avoid becoming lost.
After 3 days (or 7 days) of traveling
While tracking other creatures, you also choose to learn two of the following: their exact number, their sizes, andor how long ago they passed through the area.
When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using a skill that you’re proficient in.
I know that I can be dragging this feature too much, but what do you guys think?
Reading the comments, I understand that the Natural Explorer could trivialize the Exploration factor of the game. So, I came up with I few solutions in that feature, that would take less changes as possible. Here we go:
After an hour (or a day) of traveling
Even when you are engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
After a day (or 3 days) of traveling
Difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.Make an Acrobatics (Dexterity) check (DC 15 or DM's choice). If you succeed, difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.
When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
Your group can’t become lost except by magical means.You have advantage in Survival (Wisdom) checks to avoid becoming lost.
After 3 days (or 7 days) of traveling
While tracking other creatures, you also choose to learn two of the following: their exact number, their sizes, andor how long ago they passed through the area.
When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using a skill that you’re proficient in.
I know that I can be dragging this feature too much, but what do you guys think?
Sorry, but I can guarantee you that ain't nobody gonna bother tracking that.
Not necessarily bad, but the Rogue has features that without Expertise make it feel like a Rogue that Rangers lack in this playtest. Arguably the spell casting covers some of this.
The Ranger with Expertise in Stealth and Sleight of Hand still won't feel like a Rogue in the same way.
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I was thinking in a simpler solution: give the Ranger proficiency and Expertise in Nature and Survival as bonus, like the Survavilist feature from Scout Rogue. Would fit the theme, give flavor and not break the game.
I feel like this doesn't address the concerns a few of us have in that Expertise DOESN'T add flavour. We've already got that under the ODD Ranger. All your actually getting is Expertise in two additional skills.
And then for some reason the ranger is the class carrying more Expertise than Bard and Rogue.
And a Rogue with Expertise in Survival or Nature could still do exactly the same thing as competently.
Yeah, I see your point and agree that is too simple and not very singular to the Ranger.
the PHB exploration features were actually quite good at making you feel a ranger the problem was they were too dependent on dm interpretation rather than obvious use case. They needed cleaner wording not complete rewrites.
Uses per day would help guarantee the ranger got fulfillment out of Double Prof and advantage.
Changing Primeval awareness to allow Changes (based on what is detected)to your most recent favored enemy or terrain would also be cleaner.
It's not like this is absent from the PDF - it's available (in a limited fashion) from the Speedster feat (which also provides the same +10' to Walk when not in Heavy Armor that Roving does, although the two bonuses will stack).
One thing they could have done and just didn't is make Roving a choice from a menu of mobility options, although also on the table was replacing the +10' with ignoring Difficult Terrain. Bearing in mind the playtest rules appear to change how ice works so we can't be sure what all they intend to change, here are 8 different mobility options based on the playtest rules since the original Ranger chose from 8 biomes - you could mix and match these to build a new Roving feature:
Honestly, would have kept the natural explorer feature, but given it some combat flavour/utility.
Something like:
1. You can change the Hunter's Mark damage to a different damage type to match your terrain - fire for desert, poison for swamp, etc.
2. A free spell or two to match the terrain (so a forest ranger will still feel foresty in an urban setting) - like grasping vine or similar.
3. At higher levels, a unique perk (or choice of perks) tied to the terrain. Like, grassland could get +10 movement speed.
This would obviously be a single choice for the ranger, rather than multiple terrains. Oh, and urban should definitely be a terrain.
That would be pretty cool, actually. Have that be a special enhancement the Ranger class gets for Hunter's Mark like how the hunter sub-class also boosts Hunter's Mark.
Maybe when you cast Hunter's Mark after a successful Survival roll to track the target it doesn't cost a spell slot like it would if you just cast it mid-combat too. That'd save on spell slot usage while encouraging the ranger to try to track targets with survival before battle starts.
Reading the comments, I understand that the Natural Explorer could trivialize the Exploration factor of the game. So, I came up with I few solutions in that feature, that would take less changes as possible. Here we go:
After an hour (or a day) of traveling
After a day (or 3 days) of traveling
Difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.Make an Acrobatics (Dexterity) check (DC 15 or DM's choice). If you succeed, difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.Your group can’t become lost except by magical means.You have advantage in Survival (Wisdom) checks to avoid becoming lost.After 3 days (or 7 days) of traveling
andor how long ago they passed through the area.I know that I can be dragging this feature too much, but what do you guys think?
Sorry, but I can guarantee you that ain't nobody gonna bother tracking that.
Is that a bad thing? Like if someone wants to build a survivalist rogue, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to.
Not necessarily bad, but the Rogue has features that without Expertise make it feel like a Rogue that Rangers lack in this playtest. Arguably the spell casting covers some of this.
The Ranger with Expertise in Stealth and Sleight of Hand still won't feel like a Rogue in the same way.