So we have to wait until the next UA to see what they do to the Monk. Either it will have few changes (like the Rogue did) and so fits nicely with revised previous UA classes.
Or it's going to get the Warlock treatment so they want only one flame war on the forums at a time? Considering their apparent desire to get rid of core features tied to short rests, I think this is what will happen. What do you think they will do with Monk Ki/Spirit points?
My guess is somehow they will tie the Bonus Action unarmed strike to something similar to the Light Weapon property and monks will have a Mastery to use it as part of the Attack action, like the Nick Mastery. Flurry will still be a Ki/Spirit point. So will Patient Defense. Step of the Wind will be free. Stunning Strike will be a Daze condition instead of Stun and possibly scale to Stun at higher levels, and Ki/Spirit points will come back on a long rest like Sorcerer Sorcery Points.
The Monk class was not included in the recent 5 class release. Thus I suspect the developers have not finished ironing it out. I hope it means that the Monk class gets extensive revisions. I doubt a flame war will erupt over Monk changes, because the 5E version needs so many fixes (comparable to Sorcerers).
I expect the following:
Monk Unarmed Strikes being classified as Light Weapons.
Martial Arts Dice starting at D6, as has been leaked.
Selecting 2 (give or take) Weapon Masteries, 1 of which can be applied to Unarmed Strikes.
Using DEX instead of STR for Shove/Grapple DC.
Some form of a change from Stunning Strike to causing the Dazed status. Likely costing a Bonus Action similar to Paladin Smites.
Ki being renamed, as has been leaked.
A shift to Long Rest dependency for Ki/Spirit points.
Similar to Sorcerer, a level 18 ability to restore Ki/Spirit points on Short Rests and rolling Initiative. But I hope for not losing Astral Form.
I hope for the following changes:
Deflect Missiles being changed to Deflect Attack.
Water & Wall running moved to an earlier level.
A change to Unarmored Defense to avoid Multi-Ability Dependency, similar to changes in Bard eliminating the need for CHA.
D10 hit dice.
Open Hand Monk high level ability to cause Exhaustion Levels.
Open Hand Monk low level ability to reroll Martial Arts Dice (similar to UA Lore Bard).
As the above poster, I could see them allowing monks to add masteries to their unarmed strikes, and level-gating them. First one at 3rd level, second at 7th kind of thing. Probably from a limited list, like nick and/or topple being the first ones that jump to mind.
I think they've said they reconsidered the damage math and found it was lower than it should be. So, I expect a martial arts die boost.
Maybe a couple more spirit points added into the mix, but if they put some abilities behind weapon masteries, instead of having them require a resource like spirit points, they may not need more.
Though I doubt it will be in the UA, I'd love to see a brawler-type subclass. Basically, a str-based unarmed warrior type.
I could see either removing a few features or combining a few (more likely). From the previous UA, it seems they don’t like to have too many features at one level on the class table.
And some will definitely move with subclass features now at 3, 6, 10, and 14. I wonder how they will handle the subclass capstones like Quivering Palm that would now go to 14th level?
I expected the monk to be the class that would undergo the most changes. However, seeing how some of the community reacts aggressively to radical changes, I think maybe WoTC is going for a more conservative path.
Because of the nick feature they have to be careful how they roll out flurry of blows. A dual dagger monk having 4 attacks before 5th and 5 at fifth with flurry blows will not go over well.
I expected the monk to be the class that would undergo the most changes. However, seeing how some of the community reacts aggressively to radical changes, I think maybe WoTC is going for a more conservative path.
I think the issue with the radical change to the warlock is that it radically changes something unique into something generic, which is as a result, a boring change rather than an interesting one. Some goes for the druids wildshape. It feels like most big changes being made in one dnd is a step to reduce unique and open systems in favor of more controlled, easily comparable systems.
Honestly I think most of the class changes are way too conservative. Casters dont need much, but the martials are just slightly changed versions of what we have now, which is still extremely underwhelming compared to casters.
Im hoping for the monk to get a stronger identity, I dunno how many arguments Ive seen people have about what the monk is actually supposed to be good as, aside from moving fast.. Putting it more definitively as a damage dealer seems like the obvious choice.
I hope they finally separate unarmed damage progression from weapon damage. Bacause as it is right now, it's pointless to fight unarmed - weapons are always better because they can be magical, while fists can't. A class designed to fight unarmed is disincetivised from ever fighting unarmed. I wish they fix that. And short rest dependency, the monks' bane. They'll get rid of it, I'm fairly certain of that.
Though I doubt it will be in the UA, I'd love to see a brawler-type subclass. Basically, a str-based unarmed warrior type.
Barbarian is that, because rage damage applies to unarmed strikes now. and you can get advantage on every check related to punching and wrestling. You can even be unarmored like a monk if you want. Grab TB or a natural weapon race and you're pretty much set.
Because of the nick feature they have to be careful how they roll out flurry of blows. A dual dagger monk having 4 attacks before 5th and 5 at fifth with flurry blows will not go over well.
I actually think it would be fine.
Math example:
Barb 5 - not taking subclass into consideration. Str 18 and Polearm Master with a Glaive and Rage active. Assuming target has AC 15: 2 x 1d10 + 4 + 2 x 0.84 (due to Advantage from Reckless Attack) = 19.32. + crit: 2 x 1d10 x 0.0975 (Advantage) = 1.073. + Bonus attack: 1d4 + 4 + 2 x 0.84 = 7.14. + crit Bonus attack: 1d4 x 0.0975 = 0.24. + Graze: 3 x 5 x 0.16 = 2.4. Total: 30.2 dpr after first round
Monk 5 - again, no subclass. Assuming 1d6 Martial arts die and that it can be used instead of weapon die for weapons w. proficiency. Dex 18 and Dual Wielder for off-hand ability modifier bonus. 3 x (1d6 + 4) x 0.6 = 13.5. + crit: 3 x 1d6 x 0.05 = 0.525. + Flurry: 2 x (1d6 + 4) x 0.6 = 9. + crit Flurry: 2 x 1d6 x 0.05 = 0.35. Total: 23.4 dpr
As for what I expect from the UA Monk. One of two things. The old Monk was bottom tier for damage. They had a lot of fluff that had to be accounted for in the grand scheme of things which didn’t do a lot (if anything) for combat. They either make the UA Monk the “utility” fighter type class that once again deals bottom tier damage or they cut through the crap and significantly up their damage. As I understand it they want the fighter type classes to be the damage dealers?
They probably want to see the reaction to gutting the other half-caster as well as weapon masteries. The monk is probably going to use both.
I'm betting they'll turn unarmed into a "weapon" that you get all the cool new unarmed stuff for as a weapon mastery. Which I am okay with, tbh. And, as for ki points... they're probably deciding if destroying the short-rest-ness is a good thing or not based on warlock feedback.
I expected the monk to be the class that would undergo the most changes. However, seeing how some of the community reacts aggressively to radical changes, I think maybe WoTC is going for a more conservative path.
I think the issue with the radical change to the warlock is that it radically changes something unique into something generic, which is as a result, a boring change rather than an interesting one. Some goes for the druids wildshape. It feels like most big changes being made in one dnd is a step to reduce unique and open systems in favor of more controlled, easily comparable systems.
Honestly I think most of the class changes are way too conservative. Casters dont need much, but the martials are just slightly changed versions of what we have now, which is still extremely underwhelming compared to casters.
Im hoping for the monk to get a stronger identity, I dunno how many arguments Ive seen people have about what the monk is actually supposed to be good as, aside from moving fast.. Putting it more definitively as a damage dealer seems like the obvious choice.
Warlock has always been one of my favorite classes, and I won't get tired of repeating that I've never had as much fun with a warlock as with the tomelock I'm playing in the playtest. You have much more options, more adaptability, and you feel like a true caster.
I don't want the warlock to be unique. I want it to be fun. And this is it.
There are many people who simply resist change. And they don't even know they do it, but they do it. From the outset all change is bad for them. They don't try things to see if they like it or not, they simply unconsciously look for the negative side. That easily translates to the D&D community, and this long playtest.
I didn't like wildshape at first. I read the UA and it seemed to me a bad design. I tried it, and I saw that my impression was true. It is a poorly designed feature.
When the new warlock came out I had my doubts. I tried it, and I loved it. I had never had so much fun playing a warlock.
You have to try things, and then give your opinion. But when you see people that from minute 0 everything is bad, "they have destroyed my class", "I'm not going to play again", and blah blah blah. And he ALWAYS does that. You may start to suspect that his problem is change. It doesn't matter where the design goes. If the change is big enough to stir their conservative conscience, they're not going to like it.
So here is my rendition of the Monk, accounting for the existing UA releases. Nothing depends on WIS to avoid MAD. For simplicity and laziness, there is no flavor text. There is probably some legalese that would have to be worked out.
Hit Dice: D10
Saving Throws: STR + DEX
Weapons: Simple + Martial
Armor Training: Light Armor (To make Unarmored Defense optional. Unarmored Movement adjusted to work with Light Armor.)
Skill + Tool proficiencies unchanged.
Level 1
Martial Arts
Your unarmed strikes are light weapons. Your simple weapons without the heavy property have the finesse property (can use DEX instead of STR.) You may use your martial arts dice instead of the weapon's dice for damage rolls. You may use DEX instead of STR for your grapple escape DC.
Note "Monk Weapons" are no longer defined. Also note the lack of adding the DEX modifier to the second attack (Two Weapon Fighting), but the damage is made up for with Deflect Attack.
Weapon Mastery
You may choose 2 weapon masteries. One of your weapon masteries may be applied to your unarmed Strikes. (Nick, Slow, Vex) You may change these masteries at the end of a long rest. You gain an additional mastery at 7th level that may be applied to your Unarmed Strikes without needing to meet Prerequisites. Only 1 Mastery can be used on each attack.
Unarmored Defense: AC = DEX mod + proficiency bonus + 10.
Deflect Attack (I debated whether to put this at Level 2 to avoid multiclass dips)
Restriction: This ability can only be used when Lightly Armored or Unarmored.
When a creature targets you with an attack, you may use your reaction to redirect damage back to the attacker equal to a roll of your martial arts dice. You may use this ability whether or not the original attack hits.
This avoids enabling Rogue sneak attacks. It also avoids slowing down the game with off-turn attacks. This also is guaranteed damage, unlike an attack that can miss.
Level 2
Ki (aka Spirit Points) = Monk levels and recharge on a LONG rest. Save DC = 8+DEX+Proficiency Bonus. [With fewer Ki available, I tried to make each point go further. I also used the word "Ki" throughout as readers are more likely to be familiar with it.]
Flurry of Blows
By spending 1 ki, for the next minute when you attack with a light weapon, you may make 2 attacks with that weapon instead. This extra attack can only be used once per turn.
Step of the Wind
As a bonus action, dash. You may spend 1 ki to be able to move along vertical walls and across liquids this turn.
Patient Defense
You may Dodge as a bonus action. You can use this bonus action only if you haven’t moved during this turn, and after you use the bonus action, your speed is 0 until the end of the current turn.
Wording copied from Rogue's Steady Aim.
Level 3 subclass ability
Level 4 Feat
Level 5 Extra Attack + Slow Fall
Level 6 Subclass Ability
Level 7
Ki empowered strikes
Your unarmed strikes count as magical weapons. Your unarmed strikes get a +1 bonus to hit and damage. (on top of martial arts increase) Then +2 at lvl11 and +3 at lvl17.
The accuracy improvement is necessary for Unarmed Strikes to be comparable with +1 magic weapons.
Dazing Strikes (replaces Stunning Strikes)
After hitting a creature with an attack (ranged or melee) you may immediately spend 1 ki and your bonus action to force it to make a CON saving throw (DC = 8 + DEX + Prof Bonus). On a failure, the creature is Dazed until the end of its turn. On a success, the creature is Dazed until the end of your turn and you do not spend 1 Ki. [You still need to have 1 Ki to attempt Dazing Strikes.]
Level 8 Feat
Level 9 Purity of Mind: Gain proficiency in INT, WIS, and CHA saves.
Level 10 Subclass Ability
Level 11 You gain a second Reaction. (Help Deflect Attack work against multi-attack)
Level 12 Feat
Level 13 Diamond Soul: Gain proficiency in all saves (including Death Saves). You may spend 1 ki to reroll a saving throw.
Level 14 Subclass Ability
Level 15 Avoidance (Evasion for all saves. Copied from Demilich.)
If you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Replaces Evasion and Purity of Body. This new version works against poison damage, but also cold, psychic, and misc other damage.
And here is my adaptation for Way of the Open Hand Monks.
Level 3
When you use an unarmed strike to successfully Grapple or Shove, you may also roll your Martial Arts Dice for damage.
Level 6
Whenever you would roll your Martial Arts Dice, roll it twice and take the higher result.
Level 10 Stunning Strikes
When a target fails its saving throw against your Dazing Strikes, it is also Stunned.
Level 14 Fist of Death
Your Unarmed Strikes have a new option in addition to Grapple and Shove. The target must make a Death Saving throw (DC 10). On a failure, the target gains 1 level of exhaustion.
Matches the idea of Quivering Palm. The save could be something else. This takes 10 failures for a kill, or roughly 3 turns. Groups of Monks (like a monastery) are extra dangerous. Even a few failures reshape the battle, but a single turn is comparable to Bane. Or it could just burn through Legendary Resistances.
While there are some nice changes, I find it odd that you are weakening features that didn't need it (for instance Evasion going to lvl 7 to 15 and Patient Defense being way worse), Unarmored movement would remain the same as it currently is I guess (since it isn't listed here), except that the vertical and liquid surface movement now costs ki points from lvl 3.
Ironically, I think these versions of Martial Arts, Unarmored Defense and FoB encourages a Rogue a lot to take 1 or 2 lvls in Monk.
I expected the monk to be the class that would undergo the most changes. However, seeing how some of the community reacts aggressively to radical changes, I think maybe WoTC is going for a more conservative path.
I think the issue with the radical change to the warlock is that it radically changes something unique into something generic, which is as a result, a boring change rather than an interesting one. Some goes for the druids wildshape. It feels like most big changes being made in one dnd is a step to reduce unique and open systems in favor of more controlled, easily comparable systems.
Honestly I think most of the class changes are way too conservative. Casters dont need much, but the martials are just slightly changed versions of what we have now, which is still extremely underwhelming compared to casters.
Im hoping for the monk to get a stronger identity, I dunno how many arguments Ive seen people have about what the monk is actually supposed to be good as, aside from moving fast.. Putting it more definitively as a damage dealer seems like the obvious choice.
Warlock has always been one of my favorite classes, and I won't get tired of repeating that I've never had as much fun with a warlock as with the tomelock I'm playing in the playtest. You have much more options, more adaptability, and you feel like a true caster.
I don't want the warlock to be unique. I want it to be fun. And this is it.
There are many people who simply resist change. And they don't even know they do it, but they do it. From the outset all change is bad for them. They don't try things to see if they like it or not, they simply unconsciously look for the negative side. That easily translates to the D&D community, and this long playtest.
I didn't like wildshape at first. I read the UA and it seemed to me a bad design. I tried it, and I saw that my impression was true. It is a poorly designed feature.
When the new warlock came out I had my doubts. I tried it, and I loved it. I had never had so much fun playing a warlock.
You have to try things, and then give your opinion. But when you see people that from minute 0 everything is bad, "they have destroyed my class", "I'm not going to play again", and blah blah blah. And he ALWAYS does that. You may start to suspect that his problem is change. It doesn't matter where the design goes. If the change is big enough to stir their conservative conscience, they're not going to like it.
Don’t be too quick to lump any dissent into “you hate change”. Personally I liked the Wildshape templates for druids right out of the gate. I just think they were poorly implemented. They lost the utility options that all but moon druids used and they didn’t quite have the combat effectiveness that moon druids needed.
Warlocks losing Pact Magic is a big change. I’m fine with it being a long rest recharge if there are options to compensate.
Many of us don’t hate change just because of change. We have opinions just like you and it’s fine if we disagree.
Anyway, this is a monk thread so let’s stick with monkish discussions.
Using the process of elimination, let's go through each level, starting with what we know.
Levels 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 19, and 20 are taken up by subclass features, feats, and the epic boon. Level 5 is Extra Attack plus a little feature. Level 18 is a capstone, likely either Empty Body (yay!) or Perfect Self ki recharge (boo).
Levels 1 and 2 will almost certainly include rewritten Unarmored Defense (and possibly Armor Training), Martial Arts, Weapon Mastery, Ki/Spirit Points, Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, Step of the Wind, and/or Unarmored Movement. How these are written will set the tone for the class and make or break its implementation. I personally would like Deflect Attack and WallWater Running in here as well.
That leaves levels 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, and 17 open for the following abilities. Not all of them can fit in these levels.
Slow Fall
Stunning Strike (or its replacement)
Ki Empowered Strikes
Evasion
Stillness of Mind (auto end charm/frightened)
Wall and Water running
Purity of Body (immunity to poison)
Tongue of Sun and Moon (please not)
Proficiency in INT, WIS, CHA, CON and Death saves. (likely split among multiple levels)
Rerolling Saving Throws.
Timeless Body (ribbon feature)
Avoidance (personal preference as an upgrade to Evasion)
Extra Reaction (personal suggestion)
Additional Offensive feature(s) to avoid damage plateau in Tiers 3 & 4.
I'd be willing to bet that Ki Empowered Strikes is placed at level 7, which would pair nicely with Stunning Strike or its replacement. Slow Fall would likely fit well as the little extra feature at level 5.
Now levels 9, 11, 13, 15, and 17 are remaining.
Or the remaining list, 5 or 6 features (Evasion, Stillness of Mind, Diamond Soul split across 2 or 3 levels, Avoidance) are related to saves. And likely also Purity of Body as poison damage often involves a saving throw. Each level 9, 11, 13, 15, and 17 could have a feature related to saving throws, but I feel that would be too heavy on the saving throw features. So some saving throw features won't make the cut. The most important are Evasion and at least 2 levels of Diamond Soul giving saving throw proficiencies. Perhaps a 4th feature involving saving throws could be squeezed in.
In the end, there are only 1 or 2 levels available for surprises or brand new features. Assuming the level 14 subclass feature is typically offence related, another one of the tier 3 or 4 levels (likely level 11 or 17) is needed for offence in order to avoid a damage plateau.
Personally, I like the Mastery system. I think it’s good, but I would like them to be a little better. I think they could translate really well with the monk. What I’d like to see is more of them, like I’d like to see all the battle master abilities but as Masteries that way there would be options besides just different ways to attack. The repost maneuver would be interesting as would fancy footwork or commander’s strike, or even ambush. Now, as for the monk specifically. I really hope they are planning to give the monk access to any of the masteries with unarmed strikes instead of just vex and nick. I mean, how cool would it be to cleave with unarmed strikes or push? It’s actually pretty thematic from kungfu movies and stuff if that nature. With push it’s even kind of like adding in the crusher feat into the class itself, which wouldn’t be a bad thing since it would then allow the monk the ability to move. For my wishlist, I’m really hoping that they take some of the stuff from drunken master and way of the open hand and add that to the core monk. I just feel like that should’ve always been there then you could branch off with subclasses. Just my thoughts and hopes. I love the monk and would just like to see it be more monk like. By the way, where was this leak? I’d like more info on that
Because of the nick feature they have to be careful how they roll out flurry of blows. A dual dagger monk having 4 attacks before 5th and 5 at fifth with flurry blows will not go over well.
Don’t be too quick to lump any dissent into “you hate change”. Personally I liked the Wildshape templates for druids right out of the gate. I just think they were poorly implemented. They lost the utility options that all but moon druids used and they didn’t quite have the combat effectiveness that moon druids needed.
Warlocks losing Pact Magic is a big change. I’m fine with it being a long rest recharge if there are options to compensate.
Many of us don’t hate change just because of change. We have opinions just like you and it’s fine if we disagree.
Anyway, this is a monk thread so let’s stick with monkish discussions.
When a person always protests against changes, it is because they do not want changes. Let's see if that simple you understand what I mean.
Regarding the monk, I repeat that at first I expected it to be the class that would undergo the most changes. But now I don't know what to expect.
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So we have to wait until the next UA to see what they do to the Monk. Either it will have few changes (like the Rogue did) and so fits nicely with revised previous UA classes.
Or it's going to get the Warlock treatment so they want only one flame war on the forums at a time? Considering their apparent desire to get rid of core features tied to short rests, I think this is what will happen. What do you think they will do with Monk Ki/Spirit points?
My guess is somehow they will tie the Bonus Action unarmed strike to something similar to the Light Weapon property and monks will have a Mastery to use it as part of the Attack action, like the Nick Mastery. Flurry will still be a Ki/Spirit point. So will Patient Defense. Step of the Wind will be free. Stunning Strike will be a Daze condition instead of Stun and possibly scale to Stun at higher levels, and Ki/Spirit points will come back on a long rest like Sorcerer Sorcery Points.
Any thoughts? Speculate away!
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
The Monk class was not included in the recent 5 class release. Thus I suspect the developers have not finished ironing it out. I hope it means that the Monk class gets extensive revisions. I doubt a flame war will erupt over Monk changes, because the 5E version needs so many fixes (comparable to Sorcerers).
I expect the following:
I hope for the following changes:
As the above poster, I could see them allowing monks to add masteries to their unarmed strikes, and level-gating them. First one at 3rd level, second at 7th kind of thing. Probably from a limited list, like nick and/or topple being the first ones that jump to mind.
I think they've said they reconsidered the damage math and found it was lower than it should be. So, I expect a martial arts die boost.
Maybe a couple more spirit points added into the mix, but if they put some abilities behind weapon masteries, instead of having them require a resource like spirit points, they may not need more.
Though I doubt it will be in the UA, I'd love to see a brawler-type subclass. Basically, a str-based unarmed warrior type.
I could see either removing a few features or combining a few (more likely). From the previous UA, it seems they don’t like to have too many features at one level on the class table.
And some will definitely move with subclass features now at 3, 6, 10, and 14. I wonder how they will handle the subclass capstones like Quivering Palm that would now go to 14th level?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I expected the monk to be the class that would undergo the most changes. However, seeing how some of the community reacts aggressively to radical changes, I think maybe WoTC is going for a more conservative path.
Because of the nick feature they have to be careful how they roll out flurry of blows. A dual dagger monk having 4 attacks before 5th and 5 at fifth with flurry blows will not go over well.
I think the issue with the radical change to the warlock is that it radically changes something unique into something generic, which is as a result, a boring change rather than an interesting one. Some goes for the druids wildshape. It feels like most big changes being made in one dnd is a step to reduce unique and open systems in favor of more controlled, easily comparable systems.
Honestly I think most of the class changes are way too conservative. Casters dont need much, but the martials are just slightly changed versions of what we have now, which is still extremely underwhelming compared to casters.
Im hoping for the monk to get a stronger identity, I dunno how many arguments Ive seen people have about what the monk is actually supposed to be good as, aside from moving fast.. Putting it more definitively as a damage dealer seems like the obvious choice.
I hope they finally separate unarmed damage progression from weapon damage. Bacause as it is right now, it's pointless to fight unarmed - weapons are always better because they can be magical, while fists can't. A class designed to fight unarmed is disincetivised from ever fighting unarmed. I wish they fix that. And short rest dependency, the monks' bane. They'll get rid of it, I'm fairly certain of that.
Barbarian is that, because rage damage applies to unarmed strikes now. and you can get advantage on every check related to punching and wrestling. You can even be unarmored like a monk if you want. Grab TB or a natural weapon race and you're pretty much set.
I actually think it would be fine.
Math example:
Barb 5 - not taking subclass into consideration.
Str 18 and Polearm Master with a Glaive and Rage active. Assuming target has AC 15:
2 x 1d10 + 4 + 2 x 0.84 (due to Advantage from Reckless Attack) = 19.32.
+ crit: 2 x 1d10 x 0.0975 (Advantage) = 1.073.
+ Bonus attack: 1d4 + 4 + 2 x 0.84 = 7.14.
+ crit Bonus attack: 1d4 x 0.0975 = 0.24.
+ Graze: 3 x 5 x 0.16 = 2.4.
Total: 30.2 dpr after first round
Monk 5 - again, no subclass. Assuming 1d6 Martial arts die and that it can be used instead of weapon die for weapons w. proficiency. Dex 18 and Dual Wielder for off-hand ability modifier bonus.
3 x (1d6 + 4) x 0.6 = 13.5.
+ crit: 3 x 1d6 x 0.05 = 0.525.
+ Flurry: 2 x (1d6 + 4) x 0.6 = 9.
+ crit Flurry: 2 x 1d6 x 0.05 = 0.35.
Total: 23.4 dpr
As for what I expect from the UA Monk. One of two things. The old Monk was bottom tier for damage. They had a lot of fluff that had to be accounted for in the grand scheme of things which didn’t do a lot (if anything) for combat. They either make the UA Monk the “utility” fighter type class that once again deals bottom tier damage or they cut through the crap and significantly up their damage. As I understand it they want the fighter type classes to be the damage dealers?
They probably want to see the reaction to gutting the other half-caster as well as weapon masteries. The monk is probably going to use both.
I'm betting they'll turn unarmed into a "weapon" that you get all the cool new unarmed stuff for as a weapon mastery. Which I am okay with, tbh. And, as for ki points... they're probably deciding if destroying the short-rest-ness is a good thing or not based on warlock feedback.
Warlock has always been one of my favorite classes, and I won't get tired of repeating that I've never had as much fun with a warlock as with the tomelock I'm playing in the playtest. You have much more options, more adaptability, and you feel like a true caster.
I don't want the warlock to be unique. I want it to be fun. And this is it.
There are many people who simply resist change. And they don't even know they do it, but they do it. From the outset all change is bad for them. They don't try things to see if they like it or not, they simply unconsciously look for the negative side. That easily translates to the D&D community, and this long playtest.
I didn't like wildshape at first. I read the UA and it seemed to me a bad design. I tried it, and I saw that my impression was true. It is a poorly designed feature.
When the new warlock came out I had my doubts. I tried it, and I loved it. I had never had so much fun playing a warlock.
You have to try things, and then give your opinion. But when you see people that from minute 0 everything is bad, "they have destroyed my class", "I'm not going to play again", and blah blah blah. And he ALWAYS does that. You may start to suspect that his problem is change. It doesn't matter where the design goes. If the change is big enough to stir their conservative conscience, they're not going to like it.
So here is my rendition of the Monk, accounting for the existing UA releases. Nothing depends on WIS to avoid MAD. For simplicity and laziness, there is no flavor text. There is probably some legalese that would have to be worked out.
Hit Dice: D10
Saving Throws: STR + DEX
Weapons: Simple + Martial
Armor Training: Light Armor (To make Unarmored Defense optional. Unarmored Movement adjusted to work with Light Armor.)
Skill + Tool proficiencies unchanged.
Level 1
Martial Arts
Your unarmed strikes are light weapons.
Your simple weapons without the heavy property have the finesse property (can use DEX instead of STR.)
You may use your martial arts dice instead of the weapon's dice for damage rolls.
You may use DEX instead of STR for your grapple escape DC.
Note "Monk Weapons" are no longer defined. Also note the lack of adding the DEX modifier to the second attack (Two Weapon Fighting), but the damage is made up for with Deflect Attack.
Weapon Mastery
You may choose 2 weapon masteries.
One of your weapon masteries may be applied to your unarmed Strikes. (Nick, Slow, Vex)
You may change these masteries at the end of a long rest.
You gain an additional mastery at 7th level that may be applied to your Unarmed Strikes without needing to meet Prerequisites. Only 1 Mastery can be used on each attack.
Unarmored Defense: AC = DEX mod + proficiency bonus + 10.
Deflect Attack (I debated whether to put this at Level 2 to avoid multiclass dips)
Restriction: This ability can only be used when Lightly Armored or Unarmored.
When a creature targets you with an attack, you may use your reaction to redirect damage back to the attacker equal to a roll of your martial arts dice. You may use this ability whether or not the original attack hits.
This avoids enabling Rogue sneak attacks. It also avoids slowing down the game with off-turn attacks. This also is guaranteed damage, unlike an attack that can miss.
Level 2
Ki (aka Spirit Points) = Monk levels and recharge on a LONG rest. Save DC = 8+DEX+Proficiency Bonus. [With fewer Ki available, I tried to make each point go further. I also used the word "Ki" throughout as readers are more likely to be familiar with it.]
Flurry of Blows
By spending 1 ki, for the next minute when you attack with a light weapon, you may make 2 attacks with that weapon instead. This extra attack can only be used once per turn.
Step of the Wind
As a bonus action, dash. You may spend 1 ki to be able to move along vertical walls and across liquids this turn.
Patient Defense
You may Dodge as a bonus action. You can use this bonus action only if you haven’t moved during this turn, and after you use the bonus action, your speed is 0 until the end of the current turn.
Wording copied from Rogue's Steady Aim.
Level 3 subclass ability
Level 4 Feat
Level 5 Extra Attack + Slow Fall
Level 6 Subclass Ability
Level 7
Ki empowered strikes
Your unarmed strikes count as magical weapons.
Your unarmed strikes get a +1 bonus to hit and damage. (on top of martial arts increase)
Then +2 at lvl11 and +3 at lvl17.
The accuracy improvement is necessary for Unarmed Strikes to be comparable with +1 magic weapons.
Dazing Strikes (replaces Stunning Strikes)
After hitting a creature with an attack (ranged or melee) you may immediately spend 1 ki and your bonus action to force it to make a CON saving throw (DC = 8 + DEX + Prof Bonus).
On a failure, the creature is Dazed until the end of its turn.
On a success, the creature is Dazed until the end of your turn and you do not spend 1 Ki. [You still need to have 1 Ki to attempt Dazing Strikes.]
Level 8 Feat
Level 9 Purity of Mind: Gain proficiency in INT, WIS, and CHA saves.
Level 10 Subclass Ability
Level 11 You gain a second Reaction. (Help Deflect Attack work against multi-attack)
Level 12 Feat
Level 13 Diamond Soul: Gain proficiency in all saves (including Death Saves). You may spend 1 ki to reroll a saving throw.
Level 14 Subclass Ability
Level 15 Avoidance (Evasion for all saves. Copied from Demilich.)
If you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Replaces Evasion and Purity of Body. This new version works against poison damage, but also cold, psychic, and misc other damage.
Level 16 Feat
Level 17 You gain a third Reaction.
Level 18 Empty Body (No change.)
Level 19 Feat
Level 20 Standard Epic Boon
And here is my adaptation for Way of the Open Hand Monks.
Level 3
When you use an unarmed strike to successfully Grapple or Shove, you may also roll your Martial Arts Dice for damage.
Level 6
Whenever you would roll your Martial Arts Dice, roll it twice and take the higher result.
Level 10 Stunning Strikes
When a target fails its saving throw against your Dazing Strikes, it is also Stunned.
Level 14 Fist of Death
Your Unarmed Strikes have a new option in addition to Grapple and Shove.
The target must make a Death Saving throw (DC 10).
On a failure, the target gains 1 level of exhaustion.
Matches the idea of Quivering Palm. The save could be something else. This takes 10 failures for a kill, or roughly 3 turns. Groups of Monks (like a monastery) are extra dangerous. Even a few failures reshape the battle, but a single turn is comparable to Bane. Or it could just burn through Legendary Resistances.
While there are some nice changes, I find it odd that you are weakening features that didn't need it (for instance Evasion going to lvl 7 to 15 and Patient Defense being way worse), Unarmored movement would remain the same as it currently is I guess (since it isn't listed here), except that the vertical and liquid surface movement now costs ki points from lvl 3.
Ironically, I think these versions of Martial Arts, Unarmored Defense and FoB encourages a Rogue a lot to take 1 or 2 lvls in Monk.
Don’t be too quick to lump any dissent into “you hate change”. Personally I liked the Wildshape templates for druids right out of the gate. I just think they were poorly implemented. They lost the utility options that all but moon druids used and they didn’t quite have the combat effectiveness that moon druids needed.
Warlocks losing Pact Magic is a big change. I’m fine with it being a long rest recharge if there are options to compensate.
Many of us don’t hate change just because of change. We have opinions just like you and it’s fine if we disagree.
Anyway, this is a monk thread so let’s stick with monkish discussions.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Using the process of elimination, let's go through each level, starting with what we know.
Levels 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 19, and 20 are taken up by subclass features, feats, and the epic boon. Level 5 is Extra Attack plus a little feature. Level 18 is a capstone, likely either Empty Body (yay!) or Perfect Self ki recharge (boo).
Levels 1 and 2 will almost certainly include rewritten Unarmored Defense (and possibly Armor Training), Martial Arts, Weapon Mastery, Ki/Spirit Points, Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, Step of the Wind, and/or Unarmored Movement. How these are written will set the tone for the class and make or break its implementation. I personally would like Deflect Attack and WallWater Running in here as well.
That leaves levels 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, and 17 open for the following abilities. Not all of them can fit in these levels.
I'd be willing to bet that Ki Empowered Strikes is placed at level 7, which would pair nicely with Stunning Strike or its replacement. Slow Fall would likely fit well as the little extra feature at level 5.
Now levels 9, 11, 13, 15, and 17 are remaining.
Or the remaining list, 5 or 6 features (Evasion, Stillness of Mind, Diamond Soul split across 2 or 3 levels, Avoidance) are related to saves. And likely also Purity of Body as poison damage often involves a saving throw. Each level 9, 11, 13, 15, and 17 could have a feature related to saving throws, but I feel that would be too heavy on the saving throw features. So some saving throw features won't make the cut. The most important are Evasion and at least 2 levels of Diamond Soul giving saving throw proficiencies. Perhaps a 4th feature involving saving throws could be squeezed in.
In the end, there are only 1 or 2 levels available for surprises or brand new features. Assuming the level 14 subclass feature is typically offence related, another one of the tier 3 or 4 levels (likely level 11 or 17) is needed for offence in order to avoid a damage plateau.
Personally, I like the Mastery system. I think it’s good, but I would like them to be a little better. I think they could translate really well with the monk. What I’d like to see is more of them, like I’d like to see all the battle master abilities but as Masteries that way there would be options besides just different ways to attack. The repost maneuver would be interesting as would fancy footwork or commander’s strike, or even ambush. Now, as for the monk specifically. I really hope they are planning to give the monk access to any of the masteries with unarmed strikes instead of just vex and nick. I mean, how cool would it be to cleave with unarmed strikes or push? It’s actually pretty thematic from kungfu movies and stuff if that nature. With push it’s even kind of like adding in the crusher feat into the class itself, which wouldn’t be a bad thing since it would then allow the monk the ability to move. For my wishlist, I’m really hoping that they take some of the stuff from drunken master and way of the open hand and add that to the core monk. I just feel like that should’ve always been there then you could branch off with subclasses.
Just my thoughts and hopes. I love the monk and would just like to see it be more monk like. By the way, where was this leak? I’d like more info on that
That is a good point.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
When a person always protests against changes, it is because they do not want changes. Let's see if that simple you understand what I mean.
Regarding the monk, I repeat that at first I expected it to be the class that would undergo the most changes. But now I don't know what to expect.