In the end, I could live with monks starting with a d4 with overall better scaling. And I like some of the other ideas you suggested. Unfortunately, I don’t think WotC will make similar changes. I hope I’m wrong and am surprised when the next monk UA comes out. We shall see.
Yeah, let’s hope they will make some serious changes for the better. It doesn’t have to be anything I suggested. Those were mostly to gauge the type push back or attraction everyone here would give. If two people here hate an idea then probably a thousand more not on here will hate it as well. If you can convince enough people to say similar things on the surveys we are more likely to get the changes we want. Many agree monk damage is bad, but if we don’t align on why it is bad then the fix we get won’t align as well. If enough people want a d6 at first level we have no hope of getting cantrip like scaling.
Well, I guess being optimistic about any revision they do in a future UA won't hurt anybody (other than monk players). If anyone is interested, here's my take for a rework of the base class:
Hit points, skill, saving throws and weapon proficiency remain the same as the UA6 (yes this also means, simple weapons only and no armor or shield, bear with this for now)
1ST LEVEL: MARTIAL ARTS
You gain the following benefits while you aren’t wearing Armor or wielding a Shield:
Bonus Unarmed Strike. When you use the Attack action with an Unarmed Strike or a Simple Weapon on your turn, you can make one Unarmed Strike as a Bonus Action on the same turn.
Dexterous Attacks. You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Simple Weapons.
Martial Arts Dice. You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your Unarmed Strike. The die changes as you gain Monk levels, d8 at 5th, d10 at 11th, d12 at 17th.
1ST LEVEL: UNARMORED DEFENSE
While you aren’t wearing any armor or wielding a Shield, your base Armor Class equals 10 plus your Dexterity and Wisdom modifiers. The base number increases as you gain levels in this class, 12 at level 5, 15 at level 11 and 18 at level 17. (This was the best I could think of for now to prevent a very high AC at low levels and disencourage a single dip in monk to abuse the formula)
1ST LEVEL: WEAPON MASTERY
Your training with weapons allows you to use the Mastery property of two kinds of Simple weapons of your choice, such as Daggers and Spears.
Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can change the kinds of weapons you chose. For example, you could switch to using the Mastery properties of Maces and Slings.
1ST LEVEL: MARTIAL STYLE (If anyone can come up with a better name, you are more than welcome to change it)
You adopted a particular practice that molded your development as a monk. Choose one of the following options. You can't take the same Martial Style option more than once, even if you get to choose again. (This means that I also had a feat in mind as well as having more styles later on and some in the subclasses) Your Martial Style does not work if you are wearing armor or using a shield.
Soul over Body: You can use Wisdom instead of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls for your unarmed strikes. Additionally, you get proficiency in one skill of your choice from this class.
Quick Martial Arts: If you make an unarmed strike as part of your main action during your turn, you can make an additional unarmed strike as part of that same action instead of using a bonus action. (So this is the NIck that everyone wants, and yes, this + FoB equals 4 attacks at level 2,)
Enhanced Vitality: Your hit point maximum increases by 1 and increases by 1 again whenever you gain a level in this class.
Weapon Training: You can use your Martial Arts die in place of the normal damage of your Simple Weapons that don't have the Heavy property. Additionally, if that weapon's Mastery has a save DC, it can use your Dexterity instead of Strength to for the save DC.
2ND LEVEL: MARTIAL DISCIPLINE
Your self-discipline and martial training allow you to harness a well of extraordinary energy within yourself. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of Discipline Points. Your Monk level determines the number of points you have, as shown in the Discipline Points column of the Monk table.
You can spend these points to fuel various Martial Discipline features. You start knowing three such features: Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind. You learn more Martial Discipline features as you gain levels in this class.
When you spend a Discipline Point, it is unavailable until you finish a Short Rest or Long Rest, at the end of which you regain all your expended points. You can also use a bonus action to regain a number of Discipline Points equal to half your Monk level rounded up (min 1). You can use this bonus action a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (min 1).
Some of your Martial Discipline features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature’s effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows: Discipline save DC= 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier.
Flurry of Blows. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to make two Unarmed Strikes as a Bonus Action. (Completely independant from the Attack action, screw the aggressive "theme"). Also, when an enemy enters your reach, you can make an unarmed strike as an opportunity attack.
Patient Defense. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to take the Dodge action as a Bonus Action. (Quite frankly, I think PD is quite good as it is, even if it "costs" damage)
Step of the Wind. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to Dash and Disengage as a Bonus Action. In addition, your jump distance is doubled and you ignore difficult terrain until the end of your turn.
2ND LEVEL: UNARMORED MOVEMENT
Your speed increases by 10 feet while you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a Shield. This bonus increases when you reach certain Monk levels, as shown in the Monk table. In addition, if you make an unarmed strike against a creature, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature by sacrificing 10 feet of your movement speed.
3RD LEVEL: DEFENSIVE STANCE
Your training enable you to use defensive movements in response to your opponent attacks, while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield, you can use the following:
Deflect Missiles: You can use your reaction to deflect a ranged attack against you that deals Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage. When you do so, the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Monk level. If you reduce the damage to 0, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to redirect the attack toward another creature. If you do so, choose a creature within 60 feet of yourself that isn’t behind Total Cover. That creature must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take damage equal to two rolls of your Martial Arts die. The damage is the same type dealt by the attack.
Redirect Strike: You can use your reaction to block a melee attack against you that deals Bludgeoning, Piercing or Slashing damage. When you do so, the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Monk level. If you reduce the damage to 0, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to redirect the attack towards another creature. If you do so, choose a creature within 5 feet of yourself. That creature must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take damage equal to two rolls of your Martial Arts die. The damage is the same type dealt by the attack.
The damage of your Defensive Stance increases to three rolls of your Martial Arts die at level 11 and four rolls at level 17.
3RD LEVEL: MONK SUBCLASS
You gain a Monk subclass of your choice: Warrior of Mercy, Warrior of Shadows, Warrior of the Elements, or Warrior of the Hand. Subclasses are detailed after this class’s description
A subclass is a specialization that grants you special abilities at certain Monk levels. For the rest of your career, you gain each of your subclass’s features that are of your Monk level and lower.
3RD LEVEL: DISCIPLINED ATTACK (seriously, 'Discipline' is such a stupid choice, has anyone ever been offended by saying "ki"?)
If you spend 1 (or more) Discipline points as part of your action on your turn, you can make one attack with an unarmed strike or a Simple Weapon as a bonus action before the end of the turn.
4TH LEVEL: ABILITY SCORE IMPROVEMENT
You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify.
4TH LEVEL: SLOW FALL
You can use your Reaction when you fall to reduce any damage you take from the fall by an amount equal to five times your Monk level. Additionally, if you are thrown or are sent flying against a vertical surface or another creature, you can use your reaction to reduce the damage from the collision by an amount equal to five times your Monk level.
5TH LEVEL: EXTRA ATTACK
You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
5TH LEVEL: MYSTIC STRIKES
Once per turn when you hit a creature with a Simple Weapon or an Unarmed Strike, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to try to interfere with the energy flow within that creature's body, choose one of the folowing:
Frighten: The creature must succeed on a Wisdom save or have the Frigthened condition until the end of its next turn.
Slow: The creature must succeed on a Wisdom save or have it's speed halved and a penalty to Dexterity saving throws equal to your Wisdom modifier until the end of your next turn.
Disoriented: The creature must succeed on an Intelligence save or have disadvantage on all its attack rolls until the end of its next turn.
Stun: The creature must succeed on a Constitution save or have the Stunned condition until the end of your next turn.
Each time a creature is hit with a Mystic Strike their own energy is violently disturbed(whether they succeed on the save or not), they take additional necrotic damage equal to one roll of your Martial Arts die. You can't use Mystic Strike against the same creature more than once per turn.
6TH LEVEL: EMPOWERED STRIKES
Whenever you deal damage with your Unarmed Strike, it can deal your choice of Force damage or its normal damage type.
6TH LEVEL: SUBCLASS FEATURE
You gain a feature from your Monk subclass.
7TH LEVEL: NIMBLE EVASION
When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Additionally you gain an additional special reaction per turn that can be used only for Defensive Stance.
You don't benefit from this feature if you have the Incapacitated condition.
7TH LEVEL: ENHANCED METABOLISM
If you spend at least 1 minute resting, you can give yourself all the benefits of a Short rest. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a Long rest.
Additionally, when you use your bonus action granted by your Martial Discipline feature to regain Discipline Points, you can also roll a Hit Die to regain Hit Points as well.
8TH LEVEL: ABILITY SCORE IMPROVEMENT
You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify.
9TH LEVEL: ACROBATIC MOVEMENT
Your Unarmored Movement now gives you the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the movement. If you don't move on your next turn, you start falling as normal. Also, you can spend movement speed to add a +1 bonus to the damage roll of one of your attacks for each 10 feet of movement you spent.
10TH LEVEL: PURITY OF MIND AND BODY
Through sheer force of will, if you start your turn with the Charmed or Frightened condition it ends inmediately (no action nor freedom of will required), the creature that inflicted the condition gains no knowledge of this unless it was an effect that required concentration. You are also immune to Poison and the Poisoned Condition.
In addition, forgoing food and drink doesn’t give you levels of Exhaustion.
10TH LEVEL:MARTIAL STYLE ADEPT
You can choose another Martial Style. The following options are added as well to the list:
Improved Defense: You gain a +2 to your Armor Class.
Pulverizing Strikes: You add one more die for the damage of your Martial Arts. (So now you get 2d8, next level 2d10 and 2d12 at level 17) In addition, if you roll a 1 or 2 on any of the damage rolls, you can roll it again and use the new result.
Soul Expansion (Prerrequisite Soul over Body): The save DC of your Martial Discipline is now equal to 10 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier.
Quickened Flurry (Prerrequisite Quick Martial Arts): You gain an additional attack for your Flurry of Blows feature. (So now you'd be making 6 attacks at most)
11TH LEVEL: SUBCLASS FEATURE
You gain a feature from your Monk subclass.
11TH LEVEL: DISCIPLINED SURVIVOR
Your physical and mental discipline grant you proficiency in all saving throws.
Additionally, when you make a saving throw and fail, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to reroll it and take the second result. (Let's hope that this isn't too late to use it now)
12TH LEVEL: ABILITY SCORE IMPROVEMENT
You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify.
13TH LEVEL: DEFLECT ENERGY
Your Defensive Stance feature can now be used against attacks that deal any damage type, not just Bludgeoning, Piercing or Slashing.
14TH LEVEL: CALM CONNECTION
Your discipline now allows you to tap into the mind of other creatures, you gain the following benefits
You understand all spoken language and all creatures that understand a language understand what you say.
You can use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier for Charisma ability checks.
15TH LEVEL: PERFECT DISCIPLINE
When you roll Initiative, you regain 4 expended Discipline Points. Additionally you regain one use of your bonus action to regain Discipline Points, if you don't have all of them available.
16TH LEVEL: ABILITY SCORE IMPROVEMENT
You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify.
17TH LEVEL: SUBCLASS FEATURE
You gain a feature from your Monk subclass.
18TH LEVEL: SUPERIOR DEFENSE
As a Bonus Action, you can spend 3 Discipline Points to perfectly bolster yourself against harm for 1 minute. During that time, you have resistance to all damage.
19TH LEVEL: ABILITY SCORE IMPROVEMENT
You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify.
20TH LEVEL: TRASCENDENTAL SELF
Your can now reach beyond the limits of mind and body. Your Dexterity score and Wisdom score increase by 4. Your maximum for those scores is now 24. In addition, the ability modifier you use for the damage roll of your Martial Arts is now doubled.
Yeah, I somewhat used previously mentioned ideas, not everything is original, but I guess it can work...
It’s always helpful to see what others want out of the Monk class. I can see places were you took ideas that were previously posted. I saw some fresh ideas in there I liked and some I was toying with myself this morning. Let’s start with what I think is Bad so I can end with the Good.
BAD
Most people want more damage out of the monk, the d6 to d12 scaling will never achieve this goal. (More on this later)
You added another feature to level 1 which has a bunch of features already. Moving it to 2nd Level fixes that problem.
I don’t like Redirect Strike, but I think it is just a me thing. I think I associate it with uncanny dodge, but it’s different enough to be its own thing. It’s not bad, it’s me.
Discipline Attack could just be called Focused Aim straight out of Tasha’s. With 3 features at 3rd level this is looking feature heavy.
Enhanced Metabolism is looking too strong on your Monk (more on this later)
Pulverizing Strikes is overpowered compared to the other choices and if a person doesn’t choose this and Quick Martial Arts they are playing your Monk wrong. 5 attacks with 2d8 is far better than 6 attacks with 1d8 and eventually we are talking about 2d12.
The fact that some of those options have prerequisites is bad. Remember this was a first level choice effecting a 10th level choice.
Having a Feature at 11th breaks typical Monk design. Even Tasha’s doesn’t do that. Monks only get a subclass feature at 11th.
You 15th level Perfect Discipline should read you no longer need to track Discipline points unless you avoided the Wisdom modifier completely. Also with Enhanced Metabolism giving you a one minute short rest. If you have too many points there is no point in tracking points.
Your Capstone is just a clone of the Barbarian capstone and that’s boring.
Medium
Anything I didn’t directly mention is okay
Good
Martial Styles are cool, but aI would move them to 2nd level.
Using movement as a resource is a great idea. I think you used it for a type of disengage and an attack power up. A lot could be done with this considering the monks movement is often wasted in dungeons.
I liked using Wisdom for Charisma checks, but 14th is far too late
My best guess is wotc thought stunning strike was so overpowered they needed to cut back a bit but went too far. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. With one or two exceptions, ever notice how all the monk level 6 subclass features are all fairly weak? I think they do that deliberately to rebalance stunning strike at level 5.
If you mean in the UA, well, Elements kinda got the short end of the stick since its damage is kinda low, but at least the subclass is functional now; Shadow Step is still the same since it has always been good (even more so now that you can see in your own Darkness), so why change it? And Hand... rather than the short end of the stick, it wasn't even handed a stick to begin with; if the UA Stunning Strike is better or more useful than what the subclass offers at level 3 and 6, then the subclass is not worth it.
I was referring to most of the currently published 5e monk features at 6th level. Not UA. Visage of astral self, wings unfurled, one with the blade, searing arc strike etc... physicians touch is decent, but for the most part it seems like in the past they have deliberatly kept level 6 monk subclass features on the weak side. Or it could just be that the monk designers are just bad all around....
-a return to monk weapons, but the martial arts die goes back to start at 1d4 and scales to 1d10. (This means the nick attack now scales better.)
-tashas dedicated weapon, Maybe even ki fueled attack
-Deflect missiles goes back to an attack roll and does not cost a ki point!
-A Brand new 20th level capstone.
Thats it. Nothing else.
What we won't see is:
-an increase in ki.
-moving heightened metabolism to level 2.
-any changes to unarmored AC, hit dice or anything else like a reaction parry that would help the monks defense in melee
-there will be no weapon masteries added to unarmed strikes (except for perhaps in a new version of open hand technique).
-No dexterity as save dc for grapple and shoves
-stunning strike will not go back to the previous version
-there will be no returning to poison immunity
-any unclogging of the bonus action
Open Hand Monk
Open hand technique will get some weapon mastery options added to unarmed strikes. BUT…. it will only work with flurry of blows so you will still have to pay a ki for it when fighters will still weapon masteries for free.
Wholeness of body will have either the ki cost or the restriction on number of uses removed but otherwise the healing amount will be the same as previous UA.
Fleet step. This will be rewritten as a new feature.
Quivering palm. Status quo.
I realky hope they bring in something new to the main monk class as clearly the monk feedback was not very good. But since i believe that wotc truly does not get the monk, that is about the best i think we can expect.
I hate that I believe you are correct. I’m finishing up another mock up monk with new ideas from post on this thread and I know it’s futile. It’s just something to do while passing the time. I think a major problem WotC has is that we the players don’t have a consensus of what we want the Monk to be. Some of us want skirmishers, some of us want anime characters, some of us want Bruce Lee, some of us want an improved version of 3e monk, and some of us want something completely different than all of this.
If they would improve other aspects of the Monk I would be okay with stunning strike becoming a once per short rest ability. That would be a drastic change from 5e so I don’t see that happening. I think you are correct in your predictions.
-a return to monk weapons, but the martial arts die goes back to start at 1d4 and scales to 1d10. (This means the nick attack now scales better.)
-tashas dedicated weapon, Maybe even ki fueled attack
-Deflect missiles goes back to an attack roll and does not cost a ki point!
-A Brand new 20th level capstone.
Thats it. Nothing else.
What we won't see is:
-an increase in ki.
-moving heightened metabolism to level 2.
-any changes to unarmored AC, hit dice or anything else like a reaction parry that would help the monks defense in melee
-there will be no weapon masteries added to unarmed strikes (except for perhaps in a new version of open hand technique).
-No dexterity as save dc for grapple and shoves
-stunning strike will not go back to the previous version
-there will be no returning to poison immunity
-any unclogging of the bonus action
Open Hand Monk
Open hand technique will get some weapon mastery options added to unarmed strikes. BUT…. it will only work with flurry of blows so you will still have to pay a ki for it when fighters will still weapon masteries for free.
Wholeness of body will have either the ki cost or the restriction on number of uses removed but otherwise the healing amount will be the same as previous UA.
Fleet step. This will be rewritten as a new feature.
Quivering palm. Status quo.
I realky hope they bring in something new to the main monk class as clearly the monk feedback was not very good. But since i believe that wotc truly does not get the monk, that is about the best i think we can expect.
What are your predictions?
if that is all they give ill be pissed. they need a proper buff
-a return to monk weapons, but the martial arts die goes back to start at 1d4 and scales to 1d10. (This means the nick attack now scales better.)
-tashas dedicated weapon, Maybe even ki fueled attack
-Deflect missiles goes back to an attack roll and does not cost a ki point!
-A Brand new 20th level capstone.
Thats it. Nothing else.
What we won't see is:
-an increase in ki.
-moving heightened metabolism to level 2.
-any changes to unarmored AC, hit dice or anything else like a reaction parry that would help the monks defense in melee
-there will be no weapon masteries added to unarmed strikes (except for perhaps in a new version of open hand technique).
-No dexterity as save dc for grapple and shoves
-stunning strike will not go back to the previous version
-there will be no returning to poison immunity
-any unclogging of the bonus action
Open Hand Monk
Open hand technique will get some weapon mastery options added to unarmed strikes. BUT…. it will only work with flurry of blows so you will still have to pay a ki for it when fighters will still weapon masteries for free.
Wholeness of body will have either the ki cost or the restriction on number of uses removed but otherwise the healing amount will be the same as previous UA.
Fleet step. This will be rewritten as a new feature.
Quivering palm. Status quo.
I realky hope they bring in something new to the main monk class as clearly the monk feedback was not very good. But since i believe that wotc truly does not get the monk, that is about the best i think we can expect.
What are your predictions?
they basically said they are going to make metabolism occur earlier, and have its power scale. like warlock. They also said they would be looking for places to reduce ki costs in general.
I hate that I believe you are correct. I’m finishing up another mock up monk with new ideas from post on this thread and I know it’s futile. It’s just something to do while passing the time. I think a major problem WotC has is that we the players don’t have a consensus of what we want the Monk to be. Some of us want skirmishers, some of us want anime characters, some of us want Bruce Lee, some of us want an improved version of 3e monk, and some of us want something completely different than all of this.
If they would improve other aspects of the Monk I would be okay with stunning strike becoming a once per short rest ability. That would be a drastic change from 5e so I don’t see that happening. I think you are correct in your predictions.
You are correct. There are so many variations on what people think a monk is, it does make it difficult to design for. Thats why i think customization options in the basic monk class would be great. But that would require a complete re design and they will never fo that.
-a return to monk weapons, but the martial arts die goes back to start at 1d4 and scales to 1d10. (This means the nick attack now scales better.)
-tashas dedicated weapon, Maybe even ki fueled attack
-Deflect missiles goes back to an attack roll and does not cost a ki point!
-A Brand new 20th level capstone.
Thats it. Nothing else.
What we won't see is:
-an increase in ki.
-moving heightened metabolism to level 2.
-any changes to unarmored AC, hit dice or anything else like a reaction parry that would help the monks defense in melee
-there will be no weapon masteries added to unarmed strikes (except for perhaps in a new version of open hand technique).
-No dexterity as save dc for grapple and shoves
-stunning strike will not go back to the previous version
-there will be no returning to poison immunity
-any unclogging of the bonus action
Open Hand Monk
Open hand technique will get some weapon mastery options added to unarmed strikes. BUT…. it will only work with flurry of blows so you will still have to pay a ki for it when fighters will still weapon masteries for free.
Wholeness of body will have either the ki cost or the restriction on number of uses removed but otherwise the healing amount will be the same as previous UA.
Fleet step. This will be rewritten as a new feature.
Quivering palm. Status quo.
I realky hope they bring in something new to the main monk class as clearly the monk feedback was not very good. But since i believe that wotc truly does not get the monk, that is about the best i think we can expect.
What are your predictions?
they basically said they are going to make metabolism occur earlier, and have its power scale. like warlock. They also said they would be looking for places to reduce ki costs in general.
If they did do heightened metabolism earlier i would be thrilled. Where did you hear that?
It’s always helpful to see what others want out of the Monk class. I can see places were you took ideas that were previously posted. I saw some fresh ideas in there I liked and some I was toying with myself this morning. Let’s start with what I think is Bad so I can end with the Good.
BAD
Most people want more damage out of the monk, the d6 to d12 scaling will never achieve this goal. (More on this later)
I mean, that's why I added further damage scaling on features other than Martial Arts, like now Mystic Strikes (OG Stunning Strike) always deal more damage, regardless of the save or the further increase in Defensive Stance or some Martial Styles. The main idea was that your damage is improved by the normal progression of the class (even the capstone does this) and further more by using DP.
You added another feature to level 1 which has a bunch of features already. Moving it to 2nd Level fixes that problem.
I can see that and agree almost completely. The thing is, I don't like leaving alone a feature (Weapon Mastery) that is not functional if it doesn't have an immediate remedy (the Weapon Training Style). I didn't want to change Weapon Mastery directly, that's why the fix is in a style, but I have no problem with moving it to 2nd level.
I don’t like Redirect Strike, but I think it is just a me thing. I think I associate it with uncanny dodge, but it’s different enough to be its own thing. It’s not bad, it’s me.
Thinking back on it, Defensive Stance is too wordy, I should rewrite it to reduce the damage of any attack that deals BPS and then make the distinction of 60' for range attacks and 5' for melee attacks.
Discipline Attack could just be called Focused Aim straight out of Tasha’s. With 3 features at 3rd level this is looking feature heavy.
I wasn't going to add Ki-Fueled attack until I remembered that some subclasses screw their bonus action attack if they didn't attack, so I included it on the same spot as Tasha's.
Enhanced Metabolism is looking too strong on your Monk (more on this later)
Is it really? It's almost the same as the UA version, the only thing added is the Hit Die healing that can be used with the Refresh bonus action I added at level 2. So at level 7, the most this is doing is recovering 4 DP and a d8 of healing, and this is limited by your Wisdom mod. Huh, I didn't think of it, but I kinda overstepped into Wholeness of Body territory, guess that one's getting a rework as well.
Pulverizing Strikes is overpowered compared to the other choices and if a person doesn’t choose this and Quick Martial Arts they are playing your Monk wrong. 5 attacks with 2d8 is far better than 6 attacks with 1d8 and eventually we are talking about 2d12.
I'm confused, do you think I have to bring the other lvl 10 styles up? or bring Pulverizing Strikes a bit down? I guess I could also add some bonus to the rest (like a bonus to attack rolls or something).
The fact that some of those options have prerequisites is bad. Remember this was a first level choice effecting a 10th level choice.
Ok, I agree with this now that I reread Pulverizing Strikes being more powerful than the rest, prerrequisites are pointless.
Having a Feature at 11th breaks typical Monk design. Even Tasha’s doesn’t do that. Monks only get a subclass feature at 11th.
I wasn't too concerned about breaking the mold (or typical desing in this case), after all Martial Style is already doing that. But I wanted to push Diamond Soul earlier, even if only for a few levels.
You 15th level Perfect Discipline should read you no longer need to track Discipline points unless you avoided the Wisdom modifier completely. Also with Enhanced Metabolism giving you a one minute short rest. If you have too many points there is no point in tracking points.
I guess I could just erase Perfect Discipline completely since by this point the monk has more than enough DP and the bonus action added at level 2 + Enhanced Metabolism already fulfill the DP recovery part
Your Capstone is just a clone of the Barbarian capstone and that’s boring.
Yeah, but what else was there to add? I even included Baldur's Gate Tavern Brawler into the capstone (except that this one works for Dex and Wis as well). Maybe making the basic disciplines and Mystic Strikes for free?
Medium
Anything I didn’t directly mention is okay
Good
Martial Styles are cool, but aI would move them to 2nd level.
Using movement as a resource is a great idea. I think you used it for a type of disengage and an attack power up. A lot could be done with this considering the monks movement is often wasted in dungeons.
I liked using Wisdom for Charisma checks, but 14th is far too late
The problem is where to fit Calm Connection then, Pushing it to levels 1-4 would overload the player, I guess level 5 would be okay? It will see far more use from that point onwards.
I have another mock up I was working on were I stole some of your ideas and incorporated them into other features. I ended up not posting it because at this point it’s just for fun. None of these ideas will make it into the official books, or the next Monk UA, and sure I can offer my Monk to my table, but if they ever get to play with someone else they wouldn’t be able to play it there. Also I would never be able to play my monk because I wouldn’t have it in me to ask a DM to let me play a class I built, no matter how balanced I thought it was. I think the best we can hope for is WotC gives Monk a way to recharge DP at 2nd level, and Open Hand to get a proper rework. If they are good with Shadow and Elements they aren’t changing the base Monk that much.
Also I still really like movement speed as a resource. It’s only in one place on my reworked mock up, but I want to put it somewhere else too. I just can’t find the the place. It will come to me.
-a return to monk weapons, but the martial arts die goes back to start at 1d4 and scales to 1d10. (This means the nick attack now scales better.)
-tashas dedicated weapon, Maybe even ki fueled attack
-Deflect missiles goes back to an attack roll and does not cost a ki point!
-A Brand new 20th level capstone.
Thats it. Nothing else.
What we won't see is:
-an increase in ki.
-moving heightened metabolism to level 2.
-any changes to unarmored AC, hit dice or anything else like a reaction parry that would help the monks defense in melee
-there will be no weapon masteries added to unarmed strikes (except for perhaps in a new version of open hand technique).
-No dexterity as save dc for grapple and shoves
-stunning strike will not go back to the previous version
-there will be no returning to poison immunity
-any unclogging of the bonus action
Open Hand Monk
Open hand technique will get some weapon mastery options added to unarmed strikes. BUT…. it will only work with flurry of blows so you will still have to pay a ki for it when fighters will still weapon masteries for free.
Wholeness of body will have either the ki cost or the restriction on number of uses removed but otherwise the healing amount will be the same as previous UA.
Fleet step. This will be rewritten as a new feature.
Quivering palm. Status quo.
I realky hope they bring in something new to the main monk class as clearly the monk feedback was not very good. But since i believe that wotc truly does not get the monk, that is about the best i think we can expect.
What are your predictions?
they basically said they are going to make metabolism occur earlier, and have its power scale. like warlock. They also said they would be looking for places to reduce ki costs in general.
If they did do heightened metabolism earlier i would be thrilled. Where did you hear that?
uhh, the discussion of the new warlock getting scaling resource return, and the plan to do something similar with monk for Ki. They haven't said how they plan on scaling it. it could be resource early, hit dice later, or 1 early and another later. Who knows, but they basically said expect a ki mechanic earlier that will scale.
I think/hope we'll see the Warrior of Weapons (as the new name for the Kensei).
I hope we'll see some way of addressing the Weapon Masteries for Unarmed Strikes (either via the Weapon Mastery mechanic, or an adaptation of the Cunning Strikes mechanic (which has some overlaps with Weapon Masteries) ; I hope for the latter, but expect it will be the former ... I would much rather see Cunning Strikes like mechanics replace Weapon Mastery entirely).
There's too much up in the air for me to say anything more than that.
I hate that I believe you are correct. I’m finishing up another mock up monk with new ideas from post on this thread and I know it’s futile. It’s just something to do while passing the time. I think a major problem WotC has is that we the players don’t have a consensus of what we want the Monk to be. Some of us want skirmishers, some of us want anime characters, some of us want Bruce Lee, some of us want an improved version of 3e monk, and some of us want something completely different than all of this.
If they would improve other aspects of the Monk I would be okay with stunning strike becoming a once per short rest ability. That would be a drastic change from 5e so I don’t see that happening. I think you are correct in your predictions.
You are correct. There are so many variations on what people think a monk is, it does make it difficult to design for. Thats why i think customization options in the basic monk class would be great. But that would require a complete re design and they will never fo that.
The thing is, if monk didn't have almost 10 years of being subpar, especially in the upper tiers, or Ki point issues, or could access feats instead of needing their ASI's mostly for stats, I don't think there would be as many complaints, and variations on what a monk should be, to begin with. Then the various "I want monks to be more like X, Y, or Z" could fit into subclasses. Look at Sun Soul or Open Hand or Shadow. I think these subclasses aimed to fit these versions of what players want. And if the base class was great, then 1DD UA's could have been just about boosts and quality of life improvements like we've seen with so many of the other classes and subclasses.
Barbarians have some similar issues where they start to fall off at Tiers 3 & 4, but because they do have a solid foundation you don't get the same reactions to what a barbarian should be.
I hate that I believe you are correct. I’m finishing up another mock up monk with new ideas from post on this thread and I know it’s futile. It’s just something to do while passing the time. I think a major problem WotC has is that we the players don’t have a consensus of what we want the Monk to be. Some of us want skirmishers, some of us want anime characters, some of us want Bruce Lee, some of us want an improved version of 3e monk, and some of us want something completely different than all of this.
If they would improve other aspects of the Monk I would be okay with stunning strike becoming a once per short rest ability. That would be a drastic change from 5e so I don’t see that happening. I think you are correct in your predictions.
You are correct. There are so many variations on what people think a monk is, it does make it difficult to design for. Thats why i think customization options in the basic monk class would be great. But that would require a complete re design and they will never fo that.
The thing is, if monk didn't have almost 10 years of being subpar, especially in the upper tiers, or Ki point issues, or could access feats instead of needing their ASI's mostly for stats, I don't think there would be as many complaints, and variations on what a monk should be, to begin with. Then the various "I want monks to be more like X, Y, or Z" could fit into subclasses. Look at Sun Soul or Open Hand or Shadow. I think these subclasses aimed to fit these versions of what players want. And if the base class was great, then 1DD UA's could have been just about boosts and quality of life improvements like we've seen with so many of the other classes and subclasses.
Barbarians have some similar issues where they start to fall off at Tiers 3 & 4, but because they do have a solid foundation you don't get the same reactions to what a barbarian should be.
I believe the optimal way to fix it is to give it modular features that are up to the player to choose between 3 different ways to go about it, like pacts/divine orders or fighting styles. This will let players play the monk the way they want and also emphasize the versatility of the monk.
Modular features are the ultimate way to build characters so they don't feel repetitive and make them flexible, also letting you build into them on future updates. An example would be at a certain lvl in another book. Instead of a subclass, WOTC can offer options in the base class features, adding customization to the base class and adding extra value to the current subclasses, which makes everything feel new; we saw on Tasha how many classes changed, and if you did not like the one change use the other.
This also fixes the problem when players believe one version is better than the other, leaving the choice for when creating the character instead of when creating the Book.
With that idea, I guess it would be a Class-specific ASI/ feature.
I hate that I believe you are correct. I’m finishing up another mock up monk with new ideas from post on this thread and I know it’s futile. It’s just something to do while passing the time. I think a major problem WotC has is that we the players don’t have a consensus of what we want the Monk to be. Some of us want skirmishers, some of us want anime characters, some of us want Bruce Lee, some of us want an improved version of 3e monk, and some of us want something completely different than all of this.
Respectfully, I couldn't care less that the players don't have a unified idea of what the class should be. I'm not interested in playing a Bard or a Wizard but I'm 100% on board with how WOTC portrays those classes. They're iconic to the point where like many others I missed that the Bard was unplayable in UA7 until after the review period had closed. It's not a good sign for 2024 but also it really shows that players trust WOTC to comprehend what the Bard is at a fundamental level and the mechanics don't need to be scrutinized with every revision.
With the Monk, it is maddeningly clear that WOTC doesn't have a core vision for the class beyond the most rudimentary mechanics. There's no fundamentally unique spark that separated them from the other martial classes. Which is absolutely insane when one considered the incredible width and depth of the options players have to choose from for appropriate martial arts and philosophical inspirations. Never mind anime I really can't even see a modern Western take on what the Monk should be in D&D. The Monk was apparently based on an obscure sci-fi novel? Well then where is Honor Harrington? Where is Jet Li or Jackie Chan? Where is One Punch Man or Mob? Where is JoJo or even Ranma Saotome? The complete absence of inspirations beyond Avatar and generic 70s martial arts cinema as subclasses really stands out.
In the end, I could live with monks starting with a d4 with overall better scaling. And I like some of the other ideas you suggested. Unfortunately, I don’t think WotC will make similar changes. I hope I’m wrong and am surprised when the next monk UA comes out. We shall see.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Yeah, let’s hope they will make some serious changes for the better. It doesn’t have to be anything I suggested. Those were mostly to gauge the type push back or attraction everyone here would give. If two people here hate an idea then probably a thousand more not on here will hate it as well. If you can convince enough people to say similar things on the surveys we are more likely to get the changes we want. Many agree monk damage is bad, but if we don’t align on why it is bad then the fix we get won’t align as well. If enough people want a d6 at first level we have no hope of getting cantrip like scaling.
Well, I guess being optimistic about any revision they do in a future UA won't hurt anybody (other than monk players). If anyone is interested, here's my take for a rework of the base class:
Hit points, skill, saving throws and weapon proficiency remain the same as the UA6 (yes this also means, simple weapons only and no armor or shield, bear with this for now)
1ST LEVEL: MARTIAL ARTS
You gain the following benefits while you aren’t wearing Armor or wielding a Shield:
1ST LEVEL: UNARMORED DEFENSE
While you aren’t wearing any armor or wielding a Shield, your base Armor Class equals 10 plus your Dexterity and Wisdom modifiers. The base number increases as you gain levels in this class, 12 at level 5, 15 at level 11 and 18 at level 17. (This was the best I could think of for now to prevent a very high AC at low levels and disencourage a single dip in monk to abuse the formula)
1ST LEVEL: WEAPON MASTERY
Your training with weapons allows you to use the Mastery property of two kinds of Simple weapons of your choice, such as Daggers and Spears.
Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can change the kinds of weapons you chose. For example, you could switch to using the Mastery properties of Maces and Slings.
1ST LEVEL: MARTIAL STYLE (If anyone can come up with a better name, you are more than welcome to change it)
You adopted a particular practice that molded your development as a monk. Choose one of the following options. You can't take the same Martial Style option more than once, even if you get to choose again. (This means that I also had a feat in mind as well as having more styles later on and some in the subclasses) Your Martial Style does not work if you are wearing armor or using a shield.
2ND LEVEL: MARTIAL DISCIPLINE
Your self-discipline and martial training allow you to harness a well of extraordinary energy within yourself. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of Discipline Points. Your Monk level determines the number of points you have, as shown in the Discipline Points column of the Monk table.
You can spend these points to fuel various Martial Discipline features. You start knowing three such features: Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind. You learn more Martial Discipline features as you gain levels in this class.
When you spend a Discipline Point, it is unavailable until you finish a Short Rest or Long Rest, at the end of which you regain all your expended points. You can also use a bonus action to regain a number of Discipline Points equal to half your Monk level rounded up (min 1). You can use this bonus action a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (min 1).
Some of your Martial Discipline features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature’s effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows: Discipline save DC= 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier.
Flurry of Blows. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to make two Unarmed Strikes as a Bonus Action. (Completely independant from the Attack action, screw the aggressive "theme"). Also, when an enemy enters your reach, you can make an unarmed strike as an opportunity attack.
Patient Defense. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to take the Dodge action as a Bonus Action. (Quite frankly, I think PD is quite good as it is, even if it "costs" damage)
Step of the Wind. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to Dash and Disengage as a Bonus Action. In addition, your jump distance is doubled and you ignore difficult terrain until the end of your turn.
2ND LEVEL: UNARMORED MOVEMENT
Your speed increases by 10 feet while you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a Shield. This bonus increases when you reach certain Monk levels, as shown in the Monk table. In addition, if you make an unarmed strike against a creature, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature by sacrificing 10 feet of your movement speed.
3RD LEVEL: DEFENSIVE STANCE
Your training enable you to use defensive movements in response to your opponent attacks, while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield, you can use the following:
The damage of your Defensive Stance increases to three rolls of your Martial Arts die at level 11 and four rolls at level 17.
3RD LEVEL: MONK SUBCLASS
You gain a Monk subclass of your choice: Warrior of Mercy, Warrior of Shadows, Warrior of the Elements, or Warrior of the Hand. Subclasses are detailed after this class’s description
A subclass is a specialization that grants you special abilities at certain Monk levels. For the rest of your career, you gain each of your subclass’s features that are of your Monk level and lower.
3RD LEVEL: DISCIPLINED ATTACK (seriously, 'Discipline' is such a stupid choice, has anyone ever been offended by saying "ki"?)
If you spend 1 (or more) Discipline points as part of your action on your turn, you can make one attack with an unarmed strike or a Simple Weapon as a bonus action before the end of the turn.
4TH LEVEL: ABILITY SCORE IMPROVEMENT
You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify.
4TH LEVEL: SLOW FALL
You can use your Reaction when you fall to reduce any damage you take from the fall by an amount equal to five times your Monk level. Additionally, if you are thrown or are sent flying against a vertical surface or another creature, you can use your reaction to reduce the damage from the collision by an amount equal to five times your Monk level.
5TH LEVEL: EXTRA ATTACK
You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
5TH LEVEL: MYSTIC STRIKES
Once per turn when you hit a creature with a Simple Weapon or an Unarmed Strike, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to try to interfere with the energy flow within that creature's body, choose one of the folowing:
Each time a creature is hit with a Mystic Strike their own energy is violently disturbed(whether they succeed on the save or not), they take additional necrotic damage equal to one roll of your Martial Arts die. You can't use Mystic Strike against the same creature more than once per turn.
6TH LEVEL: EMPOWERED STRIKES
Whenever you deal damage with your Unarmed Strike, it can deal your choice of Force damage or its normal damage type.
6TH LEVEL: SUBCLASS FEATURE
You gain a feature from your Monk subclass.
7TH LEVEL: NIMBLE EVASION
When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Additionally you gain an additional special reaction per turn that can be used only for Defensive Stance.
You don't benefit from this feature if you have the Incapacitated condition.
7TH LEVEL: ENHANCED METABOLISM
If you spend at least 1 minute resting, you can give yourself all the benefits of a Short rest. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a Long rest.
Additionally, when you use your bonus action granted by your Martial Discipline feature to regain Discipline Points, you can also roll a Hit Die to regain Hit Points as well.
8TH LEVEL: ABILITY SCORE IMPROVEMENT
You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify.
9TH LEVEL: ACROBATIC MOVEMENT
Your Unarmored Movement now gives you the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the movement. If you don't move on your next turn, you start falling as normal. Also, you can spend movement speed to add a +1 bonus to the damage roll of one of your attacks for each 10 feet of movement you spent.
10TH LEVEL: PURITY OF MIND AND BODY
Through sheer force of will, if you start your turn with the Charmed or Frightened condition it ends inmediately (no action nor freedom of will required), the creature that inflicted the condition gains no knowledge of this unless it was an effect that required concentration. You are also immune to Poison and the Poisoned Condition.
In addition, forgoing food and drink doesn’t give you levels of Exhaustion.
10TH LEVEL: MARTIAL STYLE ADEPT
You can choose another Martial Style. The following options are added as well to the list:
11TH LEVEL: SUBCLASS FEATURE
You gain a feature from your Monk subclass.
11TH LEVEL: DISCIPLINED SURVIVOR
Your physical and mental discipline grant you proficiency in all saving throws.
Additionally, when you make a saving throw and fail, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to reroll it and take the second result. (Let's hope that this isn't too late to use it now)
12TH LEVEL: ABILITY SCORE IMPROVEMENT
You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify.
13TH LEVEL: DEFLECT ENERGY
Your Defensive Stance feature can now be used against attacks that deal any damage type, not just Bludgeoning, Piercing or Slashing.
14TH LEVEL: CALM CONNECTION
Your discipline now allows you to tap into the mind of other creatures, you gain the following benefits
15TH LEVEL: PERFECT DISCIPLINE
When you roll Initiative, you regain 4 expended Discipline Points. Additionally you regain one use of your bonus action to regain Discipline Points, if you don't have all of them available.
16TH LEVEL: ABILITY SCORE IMPROVEMENT
You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify.
17TH LEVEL: SUBCLASS FEATURE
You gain a feature from your Monk subclass.
18TH LEVEL: SUPERIOR DEFENSE
As a Bonus Action, you can spend 3 Discipline Points to perfectly bolster yourself against harm for 1 minute. During that time, you have resistance to all damage.
19TH LEVEL: ABILITY SCORE IMPROVEMENT
You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat or another feat of your choice for which you qualify.
20TH LEVEL: TRASCENDENTAL SELF
Your can now reach beyond the limits of mind and body. Your Dexterity score and Wisdom score increase by 4. Your maximum for those scores is now 24. In addition, the ability modifier you use for the damage roll of your Martial Arts is now doubled.
Yeah, I somewhat used previously mentioned ideas, not everything is original, but I guess it can work...
It’s always helpful to see what others want out of the Monk class. I can see places were you took ideas that were previously posted. I saw some fresh ideas in there I liked and some I was toying with myself this morning.
Let’s start with what I think is Bad so I can end with the Good.
BAD
Most people want more damage out of the monk, the d6 to d12 scaling will never achieve this goal. (More on this later)
You added another feature to level 1 which has a bunch of features already. Moving it to 2nd Level fixes that problem.
I don’t like Redirect Strike, but I think it is just a me thing. I think I associate it with uncanny dodge, but it’s different enough to be its own thing. It’s not bad, it’s me.
Discipline Attack could just be called Focused Aim straight out of Tasha’s. With 3 features at 3rd level this is looking feature heavy.
Enhanced Metabolism is looking too strong on your Monk (more on this later)
Pulverizing Strikes is overpowered compared to the other choices and if a person doesn’t choose this and Quick Martial Arts they are playing your Monk wrong. 5 attacks with 2d8 is far better than 6 attacks with 1d8 and eventually we are talking about 2d12.
The fact that some of those options have prerequisites is bad. Remember this was a first level choice effecting a 10th level choice.
Having a Feature at 11th breaks typical Monk design. Even Tasha’s doesn’t do that. Monks only get a subclass feature at 11th.
You 15th level Perfect Discipline should read you no longer need to track Discipline points unless you avoided the Wisdom modifier completely. Also with Enhanced Metabolism giving you a one minute short rest. If you have too many points there is no point in tracking points.
Your Capstone is just a clone of the Barbarian capstone and that’s boring.
Medium
Anything I didn’t directly mention is okay
Good
Martial Styles are cool, but aI would move them to 2nd level.
Using movement as a resource is a great idea. I think you used it for a type of disengage and an attack power up. A lot could be done with this considering the monks movement is often wasted in dungeons.
I liked using Wisdom for Charisma checks, but 14th is far too late
I was referring to most of the currently published 5e monk features at 6th level. Not UA. Visage of astral self, wings unfurled, one with the blade, searing arc strike etc... physicians touch is decent, but for the most part it seems like in the past they have deliberatly kept level 6 monk subclass features on the weak side. Or it could just be that the monk designers are just bad all around....
Here are my Monk predictions for next UA:
What i think we will see:
-a return to monk weapons, but the martial arts die goes back to start at 1d4 and scales to 1d10. (This means the nick attack now scales better.)
-tashas dedicated weapon, Maybe even ki fueled attack
-Deflect missiles goes back to an attack roll and does not cost a ki point!
-A Brand new 20th level capstone.
Thats it. Nothing else.
What we won't see is:
-an increase in ki.
-moving heightened metabolism to level 2.
-any changes to unarmored AC, hit dice or anything else like a reaction parry that would help the monks defense in melee
-there will be no weapon masteries added to unarmed strikes (except for perhaps in a new version of open hand technique).
-No dexterity as save dc for grapple and shoves
-stunning strike will not go back to the previous version
-there will be no returning to poison immunity
-any unclogging of the bonus action
Open Hand Monk
Open hand technique will get some weapon mastery options added to unarmed strikes. BUT…. it will only work with flurry of blows so you will still have to pay a ki for it when fighters will still weapon masteries for free.
Wholeness of body will have either the ki cost or the restriction on number of uses removed but otherwise the healing amount will be the same as previous UA.
Fleet step. This will be rewritten as a new feature.
Quivering palm. Status quo.
I realky hope they bring in something new to the main monk class as clearly the monk feedback was not very good. But since i believe that wotc truly does not get the monk, that is about the best i think we can expect.
What are your predictions?
I hate that I believe you are correct. I’m finishing up another mock up monk with new ideas from post on this thread and I know it’s futile. It’s just something to do while passing the time. I think a major problem WotC has is that we the players don’t have a consensus of what we want the Monk to be. Some of us want skirmishers, some of us want anime characters, some of us want Bruce Lee, some of us want an improved version of 3e monk, and some of us want something completely different than all of this.
If they would improve other aspects of the Monk I would be okay with stunning strike becoming a once per short rest ability. That would be a drastic change from 5e so I don’t see that happening. I think you are correct in your predictions.
if that is all they give ill be pissed. they need a proper buff
they basically said they are going to make metabolism occur earlier, and have its power scale. like warlock. They also said they would be looking for places to reduce ki costs in general.
You are correct. There are so many variations on what people think a monk is, it does make it difficult to design for. Thats why i think customization options in the basic monk class would be great. But that would require a complete re design and they will never fo that.
If they did do heightened metabolism earlier i would be thrilled. Where did you hear that?
I don’t think they meant heighten metabolism which is a short rest, but something similar to magical cunning which just gives you your resource back.
I mean, that's why I added further damage scaling on features other than Martial Arts, like now Mystic Strikes (OG Stunning Strike) always deal more damage, regardless of the save or the further increase in Defensive Stance or some Martial Styles. The main idea was that your damage is improved by the normal progression of the class (even the capstone does this) and further more by using DP.
I can see that and agree almost completely. The thing is, I don't like leaving alone a feature (Weapon Mastery) that is not functional if it doesn't have an immediate remedy (the Weapon Training Style). I didn't want to change Weapon Mastery directly, that's why the fix is in a style, but I have no problem with moving it to 2nd level.
Thinking back on it, Defensive Stance is too wordy, I should rewrite it to reduce the damage of any attack that deals BPS and then make the distinction of 60' for range attacks and 5' for melee attacks.
I wasn't going to add Ki-Fueled attack until I remembered that some subclasses screw their bonus action attack if they didn't attack, so I included it on the same spot as Tasha's.
Is it really? It's almost the same as the UA version, the only thing added is the Hit Die healing that can be used with the Refresh bonus action I added at level 2. So at level 7, the most this is doing is recovering 4 DP and a d8 of healing, and this is limited by your Wisdom mod. Huh, I didn't think of it, but I kinda overstepped into Wholeness of Body territory, guess that one's getting a rework as well.
I'm confused, do you think I have to bring the other lvl 10 styles up? or bring Pulverizing Strikes a bit down? I guess I could also add some bonus to the rest (like a bonus to attack rolls or something).
Ok, I agree with this now that I reread Pulverizing Strikes being more powerful than the rest, prerrequisites are pointless.
I wasn't too concerned about breaking the mold (or typical desing in this case), after all Martial Style is already doing that. But I wanted to push Diamond Soul earlier, even if only for a few levels.
I guess I could just erase Perfect Discipline completely since by this point the monk has more than enough DP and the bonus action added at level 2 + Enhanced Metabolism already fulfill the DP recovery part
Yeah, but what else was there to add? I even included Baldur's Gate Tavern Brawler into the capstone (except that this one works for Dex and Wis as well). Maybe making the basic disciplines and Mystic Strikes for free?
The problem is where to fit Calm Connection then, Pushing it to levels 1-4 would overload the player, I guess level 5 would be okay? It will see far more use from that point onwards.
I have another mock up I was working on were I stole some of your ideas and incorporated them into other features. I ended up not posting it because at this point it’s just for fun. None of these ideas will make it into the official books, or the next Monk UA, and sure I can offer my Monk to my table, but if they ever get to play with someone else they wouldn’t be able to play it there. Also I would never be able to play my monk because I wouldn’t have it in me to ask a DM to let me play a class I built, no matter how balanced I thought it was. I think the best we can hope for is WotC gives Monk a way to recharge DP at 2nd level, and Open Hand to get a proper rework. If they are good with Shadow and Elements they aren’t changing the base Monk that much.
Also I still really like movement speed as a resource. It’s only in one place on my reworked mock up, but I want to put it somewhere else too. I just can’t find the the place. It will come to me.
uhh, the discussion of the new warlock getting scaling resource return, and the plan to do something similar with monk for Ki. They haven't said how they plan on scaling it. it could be resource early, hit dice later, or 1 early and another later. Who knows, but they basically said expect a ki mechanic earlier that will scale.
that said, Ki is not monk's biggest issue imo.
I think/hope we'll see the Warrior of Weapons (as the new name for the Kensei).
I hope we'll see some way of addressing the Weapon Masteries for Unarmed Strikes (either via the Weapon Mastery mechanic, or an adaptation of the Cunning Strikes mechanic (which has some overlaps with Weapon Masteries) ; I hope for the latter, but expect it will be the former ... I would much rather see Cunning Strikes like mechanics replace Weapon Mastery entirely).
There's too much up in the air for me to say anything more than that.
The thing is, if monk didn't have almost 10 years of being subpar, especially in the upper tiers, or Ki point issues, or could access feats instead of needing their ASI's mostly for stats, I don't think there would be as many complaints, and variations on what a monk should be, to begin with. Then the various "I want monks to be more like X, Y, or Z" could fit into subclasses. Look at Sun Soul or Open Hand or Shadow. I think these subclasses aimed to fit these versions of what players want. And if the base class was great, then 1DD UA's could have been just about boosts and quality of life improvements like we've seen with so many of the other classes and subclasses.
Barbarians have some similar issues where they start to fall off at Tiers 3 & 4, but because they do have a solid foundation you don't get the same reactions to what a barbarian should be.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I believe the optimal way to fix it is to give it modular features that are up to the player to choose between 3 different ways to go about it, like pacts/divine orders or fighting styles. This will let players play the monk the way they want and also emphasize the versatility of the monk.
Modular features are the ultimate way to build characters so they don't feel repetitive and make them flexible, also letting you build into them on future updates. An example would be at a certain lvl in another book. Instead of a subclass, WOTC can offer options in the base class features, adding customization to the base class and adding extra value to the current subclasses, which makes everything feel new; we saw on Tasha how many classes changed, and if you did not like the one change use the other.
This also fixes the problem when players believe one version is better than the other, leaving the choice for when creating the character instead of when creating the Book.
With that idea, I guess it would be a Class-specific ASI/ feature.
Ah yes, because a martial artist couldn't possibly be big and beefy
Respectfully, I couldn't care less that the players don't have a unified idea of what the class should be. I'm not interested in playing a Bard or a Wizard but I'm 100% on board with how WOTC portrays those classes. They're iconic to the point where like many others I missed that the Bard was unplayable in UA7 until after the review period had closed. It's not a good sign for 2024 but also it really shows that players trust WOTC to comprehend what the Bard is at a fundamental level and the mechanics don't need to be scrutinized with every revision.
With the Monk, it is maddeningly clear that WOTC doesn't have a core vision for the class beyond the most rudimentary mechanics. There's no fundamentally unique spark that separated them from the other martial classes. Which is absolutely insane when one considered the incredible width and depth of the options players have to choose from for appropriate martial arts and philosophical inspirations. Never mind anime I really can't even see a modern Western take on what the Monk should be in D&D. The Monk was apparently based on an obscure sci-fi novel? Well then where is Honor Harrington? Where is Jet Li or Jackie Chan? Where is One Punch Man or Mob? Where is JoJo or even Ranma Saotome? The complete absence of inspirations beyond Avatar and generic 70s martial arts cinema as subclasses really stands out.