House rules. I'll probably use most of the 2024 rules but I'll have an alphabetical list broken down by sections like casting, melee etc. of all my tweaks.
No-one is going to take the brawler fighter, because it's terrible outside of a campaign where you aren't allowed to carry weapons.
I suspect that depends on how good these magic items are. Which is a terrible design decision, I’ll be honest, but this subclass is not very imaginative anyway.
No-one is going to take the brawler fighter, because it's terrible outside of a campaign where you aren't allowed to carry weapons.
Agreed. Its features are committed to making unarmed strikes and improvised weapons better, but those things start so far below normal weapons that the boosts only makes them slightly sub-par options. What's the point of a subclass if its whole thing simply deals worse damage than the thing everybody else (including you) can do?
I'd also like to say that, instead of giving improvised weapon-boosting magic items, it'd be cool to give Brawler a feature that gives a boost to non-weapon magic items based on their rarity. For example, slapping somebody around with a Bag of Holding, handbag-style, gets you a +1. Then again, maybe that's a bad idea, if the whole point of the subclass is using a new weapon for every battle.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
No-one is going to take the brawler fighter, because it's terrible outside of a campaign where you aren't allowed to carry weapons.
Agreed. Its features are committed to making unarmed strikes and improvised weapons better, but those things start so far below normal weapons that the boosts only makes them slightly sub-par options. What's the point of a subclass if its whole thing simply deals worse damage than the thing everybody else (including you) can do?
I'd also like to say that, instead of giving improvised weapon-boosting magic items, it'd be cool to give Brawler a feature that gives a boost to non-weapon magic items based on their rarity. For example, slapping somebody around with a Bag of Holding, handbag-style, gets you a +1. Then again, maybe that's a bad idea, if the whole point of the subclass is using a new weapon for every battle.
That is what improvised weapons are! Which is why they are fun. Want to smack someone with a frying pan? - brawler Smash Alchemists Fire in someone's face? - brawler Want to strangle them with a bag of holding? - brawler Want to beat someone to death with an immovable rod? - brawler Want to smash a table over someone's head? -brawler Want to knock someone out with an Orb of Scrying? - brawler Want to catch a sea serpent on the end of a grappling hook? - brawler Want to cave someone's head in with your shield? - brawler
Predictable the "monk is fine " group already giving more excuses as to why we cant have good things. also people who actually like monk, brawler not going to cut it. they want be a monk . if you like brawler go for it.
Yes they did. But i will take it. And i am 50% sure that once the next UA comes out for monks they will change topple to something else. Just because its too powerful for monks.😅
Predictable the "monk is fine " group already giving more excuses as to why we cant have good things. also people who actually like monk, brawler not going to cut it. they want be a monk . if you like brawler go for it.
Perhaps you are right, this subclass will allow the monk to be apreciate as an unarmed warrior class that uses technique (DEX) more than brute force.
Looks like Warlock was shifted back to Short Rest dependent Pact Magic slots. Which means WoTC thinks it is ok for some classes to be wholly dependent on Short Rests.
LEVEL 2: MAGICAL CUNNING If all your Pact Magic spell slots are expended, you can perform an esoteric rite for 1 minute, at the end of which you regain half of those spell slots (round up). Once you use this feature, you can’t do so again until you finish a Long Rest.
This makes me worried WoTC will not fix Monk's Short Rest dependency. I was hoping each class would gain roughly the same amount of power (eg Channel Divinity) on a Short Rest, so that party composition would not feel so lopsided based on how often Rests occurred.
That is what improvised weapons are! Which is why they are fun.
Fun is fine for a one-shot, but in a campaign the fun will wear off and the being ineffective won't.
Brawler isn't an unarmed focused class, it is just an option, that mostly works well with grapple. unarmed attacks include headbuts, kicks etc. So you can grapple two enemies and still hit them, you can also punch and grab via grappler feat, or unarmed+shove with tavern brawler.
you do realize the lvl 15 feature gives you +5-6 damage per hit, a d12 on any two handed improvised, and allows you to use two masteries at the same time? That is actually quite bonkers. you can throw d12+12 rocks that cleave AND topple. You can make an improvised glaive that does d12+12. (and use pam)
as far as low level, it essentially gives you two more masteries.
also improvised weapons can have the stats of weapons they are similar to. So basically you can create custom weapons and carry them around, like a Vex longsword-alike.
also using weapons improperly = improvised weapon, so like a pommel hit Is an improvised club, which you can give sap vex or slow property.
the biggest problem imo is grappler does the level 10 feature but better, it should probably say you get the grappler feat, or another fest of your choice if you already have it.
that said, I don't think it fits the niche of monk, and I'm hoping they aren't thinking that monk getting a d12 instead of d10 is a great enough to make it viable. After all, This guy with no feats, synergies, or items is doing 4*(d12+12) baseline. And likely 5 hits with a Pam build.
Looks like Warlock was shifted back to Short Rest dependent Pact Magic slots. Which means WoTC thinks it is ok for some classes to be wholly dependent on Short Rests.
LEVEL 2: MAGICAL CUNNING If all your Pact Magic spell slots are expended, you can perform an esoteric rite for 1 minute, at the end of which you regain half of those spell slots (round up). Once you use this feature, you can’t do so again until you finish a Long Rest.
This makes me worried WoTC will not fix Monk's Short Rest dependency. I was hoping each class would gain roughly the same amount of power (eg Channel Divinity) on a Short Rest, so that party composition would not feel so lopsided based on how often Rests occurred.
I don't really want long rest monks, so I am happy with this.
not that monk's ki isnt an issue, but I don't want an LR solution.
That is what improvised weapons are! Which is why they are fun.
Fun is fine for a one-shot, but in a campaign the fun will wear off and the being ineffective won't.
Brawler isn't an unarmed focused class, it is just an option, that mostly works well with grapple. unarmed attacks include headbuts, kicks etc. So you can grapple two enemies and still hit them, you can also punch and grab via grappler feat, or unarmed+shove with tavern brawler.
you do realize the lvl 15 feature gives you +5-6 damage per hit, a d12 on any two handed improvised, and allows you to use two masteries at the same time? That is actually quite bonkers. you can throw d12+12 rocks that cleave AND topple. You can make an improvised glaive that does d12+12. (and use pam)
as far as low level, it essentially gives you two more masteries.
also improvised weapons can have the stats of weapons they are similar to. So basically you can create custom weapons and carry them around, like a Vex longsword-alike.
also using weapons improperly = improvised weapon, so like a pommel hit Is an improvised club, which you can give sap vex or slow property.
the biggest problem imo is grappler does the level 10 feature but better, it should probably say you get the grappler feat, or another fest of your choice if you already have it.
that said, I don't think it fits the niche of monk, and I'm hoping they aren't thinking that monk getting a d12 instead of d10 is a great enough to make it viable. After all, This guy with no feats, synergies, or items is doing 4*(d12+12) baseline. And likely 5 hits with a Pam build.
Yeah but its level 15. They kind of need that at like 7 or 8. I'd say they also need does force damage option or something for dealing with damage resistance but we don't know what monsters are getting in that regard.
that being said i think its a really cool first pass at a brawler subclass.
That is what improvised weapons are! Which is why they are fun.
Fun is fine for a one-shot, but in a campaign the fun will wear off and the being ineffective won't.
Brawler isn't an unarmed focused class, it is just an option, that mostly works well with grapple. unarmed attacks include headbuts, kicks etc. So you can grapple two enemies and still hit them, you can also punch and grab via grappler feat, or unarmed+shove with tavern brawler.
you do realize the lvl 15 feature gives you +5-6 damage per hit, a d12 on any two handed improvised, and allows you to use two masteries at the same time? That is actually quite bonkers. you can throw d12+12 rocks that cleave AND topple. You can make an improvised glaive that does d12+12. (and use pam)
as far as low level, it essentially gives you two more masteries.
also improvised weapons can have the stats of weapons they are similar to. So basically you can create custom weapons and carry them around, like a Vex longsword-alike.
also using weapons improperly = improvised weapon, so like a pommel hit Is an improvised club, which you can give sap vex or slow property.
the biggest problem imo is grappler does the level 10 feature but better, it should probably say you get the grappler feat, or another fest of your choice if you already have it.
that said, I don't think it fits the niche of monk, and I'm hoping they aren't thinking that monk getting a d12 instead of d10 is a great enough to make it viable. After all, This guy with no feats, synergies, or items is doing 4*(d12+12) baseline. And likely 5 hits with a Pam build.
Yeah but its level 15. They kind of need that at like 7 or 8. I'd say they also need does force damage option or something for dealing with damage resistance but we don't know what monsters are getting in that regard.
that being said i think its a really cool first pass at a brawler subclass.
there is no way they could give that power at 7, perhaps they could break up the effect or have it improve (though I'm not sure subclass features usually work that way). It needs some smoothing out though. it ain't perfect
I'd say they also need does force damage option or something for dealing with damage resistance but we don't know what monsters are getting in that regard.
No they don't b/c they are getting magic items that will do that just like regular fighters don't get any feature to overcome damage resistance, they rely on getting a magic weapon.
I'd say they also need does force damage option or something for dealing with damage resistance but we don't know what monsters are getting in that regard.
No they don't b/c they are getting magic items that will do that just like regular fighters don't get any feature to overcome damage resistance, they rely on getting a magic weapon.
We will see, when they come out what it handles.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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House rules. I'll probably use most of the 2024 rules but I'll have an alphabetical list broken down by sections like casting, melee etc. of all my tweaks.
No-one is going to take the brawler fighter, because it's terrible outside of a campaign where you aren't allowed to carry weapons.
I suspect that depends on how good these magic items are. Which is a terrible design decision, I’ll be honest, but this subclass is not very imaginative anyway.
I can’t remember what’s supposed to go here.
Agreed. Its features are committed to making unarmed strikes and improvised weapons better, but those things start so far below normal weapons that the boosts only makes them slightly sub-par options. What's the point of a subclass if its whole thing simply deals worse damage than the thing everybody else (including you) can do?
I'd also like to say that, instead of giving improvised weapon-boosting magic items, it'd be cool to give Brawler a feature that gives a boost to non-weapon magic items based on their rarity. For example, slapping somebody around with a Bag of Holding, handbag-style, gets you a +1. Then again, maybe that's a bad idea, if the whole point of the subclass is using a new weapon for every battle.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Just Reading over UA.......
quaterstaff now has the topple weapon mastery.
Excellent.
Lol, they completely cancelled FLEX.
That is what improvised weapons are! Which is why they are fun.
Want to smack someone with a frying pan? - brawler
Smash Alchemists Fire in someone's face? - brawler
Want to strangle them with a bag of holding? - brawler
Want to beat someone to death with an immovable rod? - brawler
Want to smash a table over someone's head? -brawler
Want to knock someone out with an Orb of Scrying? - brawler
Want to catch a sea serpent on the end of a grappling hook? - brawler
Want to cave someone's head in with your shield? - brawler
Predictable the "monk is fine " group already giving more excuses as to why we cant have good things. also people who actually like monk, brawler not going to cut it. they want be a monk . if you like brawler go for it.
Yes they did. But i will take it. And i am 50% sure that once the next UA comes out for monks they will change topple to something else. Just because its too powerful for monks.😅
Fun is fine for a one-shot, but in a campaign the fun will wear off and the being ineffective won't.
Perhaps you are right, this subclass will allow the monk to be apreciate as an unarmed warrior class that uses technique (DEX) more than brute force.
How is:
1d6 (enemy grappled) + [Adv]1d6+STR (One handed improvised weapon with Light Property with Vex) + [Adv] 1d8+STR (Two handed improvised weapon with Topple) + Proned enemy + [Adv]1d8+STR (Two handed improvised weapon with Cleave) + 1d8 (Cleave) + Grappled enemy (BA) + [Adv] 1d6+STR (Scimitar with Nick)
Expected Damage : 38.1 (and your target has disadvantage on all attack rolls and can't move)
in 1 turn at level 11 ineffective?
(It's way better than Monk's 27.3-30.9 DPR at the same level)
The new Lifedrinker invocation gives the warlock 3 attacks on the attack action at level 11. Pretty sweet. I wish the monk had that......
Looks like Warlock was shifted back to Short Rest dependent Pact Magic slots. Which means WoTC thinks it is ok for some classes to be wholly dependent on Short Rests.
LEVEL 2: MAGICAL CUNNING If all your Pact Magic spell slots are expended, you can perform an esoteric rite for 1 minute, at the end of which you regain half of those spell slots (round up). Once you use this feature, you can’t do so again until you finish a Long Rest.
This makes me worried WoTC will not fix Monk's Short Rest dependency. I was hoping each class would gain roughly the same amount of power (eg Channel Divinity) on a Short Rest, so that party composition would not feel so lopsided based on how often Rests occurred.
Brawler isn't an unarmed focused class, it is just an option, that mostly works well with grapple. unarmed attacks include headbuts, kicks etc. So you can grapple two enemies and still hit them, you can also punch and grab via grappler feat, or unarmed+shove with tavern brawler.
you do realize the lvl 15 feature gives you +5-6 damage per hit, a d12 on any two handed improvised, and allows you to use two masteries at the same time? That is actually quite bonkers. you can throw d12+12 rocks that cleave AND topple. You can make an improvised glaive that does d12+12. (and use pam)
as far as low level, it essentially gives you two more masteries.
also improvised weapons can have the stats of weapons they are similar to. So basically you can create custom weapons and carry them around, like a Vex longsword-alike.
also using weapons improperly = improvised weapon, so like a pommel hit Is an improvised club, which you can give sap vex or slow property.
the biggest problem imo is grappler does the level 10 feature but better, it should probably say you get the grappler feat, or another fest of your choice if you already have it.
that said, I don't think it fits the niche of monk, and I'm hoping they aren't thinking that monk getting a d12 instead of d10 is a great enough to make it viable. After all, This guy with no feats, synergies, or items is doing 4*(d12+12) baseline. And likely 5 hits with a Pam build.
I don't really want long rest monks, so I am happy with this.
not that monk's ki isnt an issue, but I don't want an LR solution.
Yeah but its level 15. They kind of need that at like 7 or 8. I'd say they also need does force damage option or something for dealing with damage resistance but we don't know what monsters are getting in that regard.
that being said i think its a really cool first pass at a brawler subclass.
there is no way they could give that power at 7, perhaps they could break up the effect or have it improve (though I'm not sure subclass features usually work that way). It needs some smoothing out though. it ain't perfect
We will see, when they come out what it handles.