I haven’t been following this very carefully, so sorry if this has come up, but I had an idea. What if you take all the stuff like patient defense, step of the wind, flurry of blows, and make them free, No ki points. I know that’s come up before, but here’s the actual idea. You allow ki points to buy a second bonus action. If you do, then both BAs on that turn can only be used for monk powers — to avoid multiclass shenanigans.
Rather than mucking with action economy like that, I'd probably go with
You can do one of these things (dodge, dash, disengage, make one unarmed attack) for free.
You can spend a discipline point to do two of those things (or do one of them twice).
At level 11, you can spend two discipline points to do three of those things.
At level 17, you can spend three discipline points do to four of those things.
For anyone wanting monks to have light or medium armor proficiency they can get it under the new rules. You get a feat when you choose your character backround at level 1. With the customized background option you can choose a first level feat which in this case would be the lightly armored feat.
LIGHTLY ARMORED 1st-Level Feat Prerequisite: None Repeatable: No You gain the following Armor Training: Light Armor, Medium Armor, and Shield.
You still loose a bunch of monk class features while wearing armor, but medium armor monk is totally legal under the new rules.
And also the Weapon Training Feat which gives acces to martial weapon proficiency does boost your dex score by +1. So for those who want better weapons for monk it could happen at level 4 and bump your dex from 17 to 18.
I do believe tashas dedicated weapon option will be in the next monk update so weapon masteries for some martial weapons i think will be possible.🤞
Losing most your Monk features makes it pointless. Also why should Monk have to pay a feat tax when the most comparable class the Barbarian gets a better version of Unarmored Defense that works with a shield and the option to just wear Armor if they don’t have the stats to make Unarmored Defense work well. I personally would never want my monk in Armor, but for people who want to play Str Monk and those who don’t want to invest in Wisdom early wearing armor can help until they get enough ASI to leave it behind. It’s about making the class more flexible, and allowing builds that more people want to play.
Everyone now gets a free feat at level one so not much of a feat tax for taking lightly armored feat. Since its free. But I would never make an armored monk either so i agree that there is not much use in making that kind of build. But it is interesting to explore whats possible for monks under the new rules.
I haven’t been following this very carefully, so sorry if this has come up, but I had an idea. What if you take all the stuff like patient defense, step of the wind, flurry of blows, and make them free, No ki points. I know that’s come up before, but here’s the actual idea. You allow ki points to buy a second bonus action. If you do, then both BAs on that turn can only be used for monk powers — to avoid multiclass shenanigans.
Rather than mucking with action economy like that, I'd probably go with
You can do one of these things (dodge, dash, disengage, make one unarmed attack) for free.
You can spend a discipline point to do two of those things (or do one of them twice).
At level 11, you can spend two discipline points to do three of those things.
At level 17, you can spend three discipline points do to four of those things.
That could work, too. Personally, after playing bg3 where a subclass gets 2 bomus actions for free, I find it’s not too OP as far as action economy. Yes, the game is not tabletop, but it’s close enough in a lot of ways to be at least proof of concept. Also, my way opens up some design space to make subclass abilities a BA, and then also qualify. Which, I know they can just add it to the list, like a domain spell, but I think just saying BA is simpler. But, sure, this way gets you to about the same place.
Though I don’t know about doing four things on a BA, that could be 10 attacks a round, but if you’ve put 17 levels in monk, seems like you’ve probably earned some crazy stuff.
Though I don’t know about doing four things on a BA, that could be 10 attacks a round, but if you’ve put 17 levels in monk, seems like you’ve probably earned some crazy stuff.
I think Pantagruel666's proposal is that there's no flurry of blows, because it rolls into the "do the same thing twice for 1 Ki" option via the single unarmed strike, so the maximum would be six at 17th-level (two regular, four as bonus action) or seven if we include Nick (the weapon mastery, not that other Nick, he knows what he did).
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...he also mentioned the core monk class and open hand subclass are likely the only two coming back for another UA. Although he left it open that could possibly change. Warrior of shadow and elements scored high enough that they dont need to come back for another round of testing.
in the video they also discuss 'quartets' of subclasses. if there were four in the revised PHB, what would be the fourth?
Warrior of the Elements // Warrior of Shadow
Warrior of the Hand // Warrior of the... Foot? (🥷🐢🐢🐢🐢🐀🥷)
I was reveiwing the new character background rules and there are a few free level 1 feats that everyone can get that would help the monk right off the bat.
Tough Feat - +2 hp per level - very good for monks hit point issues due to low con scores. If you start your monk with 14 con and the tough feat you are getting an extra 4hp per level right from level 1. And its free. Thats pretty solid.
Tavern Brawler Feat- "Damage Rerolls. Whenever you roll a damage die for your Unarmed Strike, you can reroll the die if it rolls a 1, and you must use the new roll." ( Note that there is no once per turn limit on this.)
And also from the tavern brawler feat:
"Shove. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack Action on your turn, you can deal damage to the target and also push it 5 feet away. You can use this benefit only once per turn."
Free pushback is pretty good. I dont know why they restrict it to the attack action but it is still useful.
Skilled Feat - three free skill proficiencies, plus two from your background, plus two from being a monk. Starting with up to 7 skill proficiencies gives the monk a boost for out of combat utility where the monk is currently lacking.
The monk still has issues but i think these free feats do help fill in some of the gaps for monk.
Is that true, because that is not how I interpreted what he said. When Jeremy mentions those classes he specifically leaves out the monk and ranger. He said most of the classes are liked, "the rogue, the paladin, the cleric, the bard and even the druid received scores in the 70s or up into the 80s". He said in that group druid had the lowest satisfaction score but from what I understand he was excluding the monk and the ranger when he made that statement.
Is that true, because that is not how I interpreted what he said. When Jeremy mentions those classes he specifically leaves out the monk and ranger. He said most of the classes are liked, "the rogue, the paladin, the cleric, the bard and even the druid received scores in the 70s or up into the 80s". He said in that group druid had the lowest satisfaction score but from what I understand he was excluding the monk and the ranger when he made that statement.
Rather than mucking with action economy like that, I'd probably go with
You can do one of these things (dodge, dash, disengage, make one unarmed attack) for free.
You can spend a discipline point to do two of those things (or do one of them twice).
At level 11, you can spend two discipline points to do three of those things.
At level 17, you can spend three discipline points do to four of those things.
Hmm, Pantagruel's suggestion is interesting, though I should note that a bonus action dodge for free is like rising a multiclass alert, the same way Action Surge did. I'm not saying the option is bad, I'm just saying that the dodge option should include some restriction.
Also getting rid of FoB leads to further rewording of subclasses, namely Open Hand (which should use OHT on all unarmed strikes IMO), Drunken Master and Mercy. This also applies to others' suggestion of moving Martial Arts additional attack into the main action and making FoB only add 1 attack as a bonus action.
For anyone wanting monks to have light or medium armor proficiency they can get it under the new rules. You get a feat when you choose your character backround at level 1. With the customized background option you can choose a first level feat which in this case would be the lightly armored feat.
LIGHTLY ARMORED 1st-Level Feat Prerequisite: None Repeatable: No You gain the following Armor Training: Light Armor, Medium Armor, and Shield.
You still loose a bunch of monk class features while wearing armor, but medium armor monk is totally legal under the new rules.
And also the Weapon Training Feat which gives acces to martial weapon proficiency does boost your dex score by +1. So for those who want better weapons for monk it could happen at level 4 and bump your dex from 17 to 18.
I do believe tashas dedicated weapon option will be in the next monk update so weapon masteries for some martial weapons i think will be possible.🤞
Losing most your Monk features makes it pointless. Also why should Monk have to pay a feat tax when the most comparable class the Barbarian gets a better version of Unarmored Defense that works with a shield and the option to just wear Armor if they don’t have the stats to make Unarmored Defense work well. I personally would never want my monk in Armor, but for people who want to play Str Monk and those who don’t want to invest in Wisdom early wearing armor can help until they get enough ASI to leave it behind. It’s about making the class more flexible, and allowing builds that more people want to play.
Everyone now gets a free feat at level one so not much of a feat tax for taking lightly armored feat. Since its free. But I would never make an armored monk either so i agree that there is not much use in making that kind of build. But it is interesting to explore whats possible for monks under the new rules.
If everyone else starts with a loaf of bread and I give everyone money to go to the store to materials for a sandwich the monk needs to buy bread and the toppings. It’s a feat tax because because the Barbarian gets armor for free and you are telling monks to pay for it. Also more importantly it’s not possible for monks under the new rules since they would be surrendering their 1st level feature. Martial Arts stops working if you wear armor or use a shield.
I was reveiwing the new character background rules and there are a few free level 1 feats that everyone can get that would help the monk right off the bat.
Tough Feat - +2 hp per level - very good for monks hit point issues due to low con scores. If you start your monk with 14 con and the tough feat you are getting an extra 4hp per level right from level 1. And its free. Thats pretty solid.
Tavern Brawler Feat- "Damage Rerolls. Whenever you roll a damage die for your Unarmed Strike, you can reroll the die if it rolls a 1, and you must use the new roll." ( Note that there is no once per turn limit on this.)
And also from the tavern brawler feat:
"Shove. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack Action on your turn, you can deal damage to the target and also push it 5 feet away. You can use this benefit only once per turn."
Free pushback is pretty good. I dont know why they restrict it to the attack action but it is still useful.
Skilled Feat - three free skill proficiencies, plus two from your background, plus two from being a monk. Starting with up to 7 skill proficiencies gives the monk a boost for out of combat utility where the monk is currently lacking.
The monk still has issues but i think these free feats do help fill in some of the gaps for monk.
these don't hold a candle to charger or a fighting style. also I'm pretty sure that pushback has a str saving throw.
I Hope they are not timid in the next monk revision and there are monk choices for what differing people prefer. kind if like the cleric and druid orders. I they just need a monk that will shock people a little bit imo .I think it would be cool if they added like a choice of something to enhance an aspect of the monk built in like more dmg on atks ,extra ki or ac
I was reveiwing the new character background rules and there are a few free level 1 feats that everyone can get that would help the monk right off the bat.
Tough Feat - +2 hp per level - very good for monks hit point issues due to low con scores. If you start your monk with 14 con and the tough feat you are getting an extra 4hp per level right from level 1. And its free. Thats pretty solid.
Tavern Brawler Feat- "Damage Rerolls. Whenever you roll a damage die for your Unarmed Strike, you can reroll the die if it rolls a 1, and you must use the new roll." ( Note that there is no once per turn limit on this.)
And also from the tavern brawler feat:
"Shove. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack Action on your turn, you can deal damage to the target and also push it 5 feet away. You can use this benefit only once per turn."
Free pushback is pretty good. I dont know why they restrict it to the attack action but it is still useful.
Skilled Feat - three free skill proficiencies, plus two from your background, plus two from being a monk. Starting with up to 7 skill proficiencies gives the monk a boost for out of combat utility where the monk is currently lacking.
The monk still has issues but i think these free feats do help fill in some of the gaps for monk.
these don't hold a candle to charger or a fighting style. also I'm pretty sure that pushback has a str saving throw.
Yes, if you are making unarmed strike it would normally require a saving throw if you want to shove. The new version of the tavern brawler feat in the character origins playtest bypasses this giving you a free once per turn 5 foot shove with an unarmed strike.
Copy and pasted from tavern brawler:
"Shove. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack Action on your turn, you can deal damage to the target and also push it 5 feet away. You can use this benefit only once per turn."
I also hope they do something radical with the monk. The first rogue playtest did not go so well, but they did made some great improvements for the second rogue playtest so I am hopeful.
I’m doubtful, they already said Shadow and 4 Elements is done with Playtest. So whatever changes they make can’t effect those subclasses. That tells me they won’t do anything radical, but simple fixes can greatly improve the monk.
I've been toying with a write-up of the Monk as an Arcane half-caster... and I think it makes the class a lot cleaner.
You can of course do what you like, and everyone is entitled to their own perspective.
However, I have no interest in monk as a half caster, thats not what the primary fantasy of the class is.
to me this type of solution misses the goal, which is to have a cool martial artist go on adventures with their friends.
Here is why half caster and caster concepts don't fit.
1) Flavor/lore/world casting is a mental pursuit, it is themed as learning how the world works, and then following the proper methods for requesting/enacting a result, its like a less hands on version of science. Probably closest to programming. You got programmers(wizards), hackers(warlocks), and mods/admins(sorcerers). The theme is to obtain power too manipulate reality. None of this lines up with the monk,, whose primary fantasy is active, In the previous analogy, they are not the programmer, they seek to be the power user, who can realize the full potential of the software. This is like the guy who has mastered photoshopp 2015, or blender.
also in terms of lore, spells are cast, they use verbal, somatic and material components, Imagine a martial artist, who K.O. their opponents by saying some words, hand motions, and throwing a chicken bone. Thats not a martial artist.
Also, the theme and fantasy of the martial artist needs unique flavor. If haste is a spell, that every caster of a certain type has access to, thats not going to fit the flavor of how a martial artist achieves speed, or multiple attacks.
2)gameplay. Spell casting is designed primarily as a daily resource mechanic. It is also sub divided into various power teirs per day. This makes the primary gameplay strategic, which spells do I choose, and how do I apportion my resources, thats the primary game loop for casters. The gameplay that fits the monk is not that type of thing. The fantasy of a martial artist isnt, I can sometimes for a short period per long rest pull on fantastic powers, but I have to carefully manage their use. The fantasy is that I have trained and learned, and have new capabilities, and combat awareness. the gameplay that more closely lines up is short term resources, at will abilities, decisions based on the moment, reactions, round to round, not day focused decisions. The martial artist isnt the, I have certain number of special bullets guy.
I get that spell casting is the most developed, and versatile set of feature selection in the game, and the classes with access to it are generally better. However, that is actually a flaw, because the gameplay and theme of casters don't fit every class concept. Using that tool box may solve balance issues, and be easy to design, but it doesnt create a more interesting and diverse roleplaying game that encapsulates the fantasies of various tropes.
I've been toying with a write-up of the Monk as an Arcane half-caster... and I think it makes the class a lot cleaner.
You can of course do what you like, and everyone is entitled to their own perspective.
However, I have no interest in monk as a half caster, thats not what the primary fantasy of the class is.
to me this type of solution misses the goal, which is to have a cool martial artist go on adventures with their friends.
Here is why half caster and caster concepts don't fit.
1) Flavor/lore/world casting is a mental pursuit, it is themed as learning how the world works, and then following the proper methods for requesting/enacting a result, its like a less hands on version of science. Probably closest to programming. You got programmers(wizards), hackers(warlocks), and mods/admins(sorcerers). The theme is to obtain power too manipulate reality. None of this lines up with the monk,, whose primary fantasy is active, In the previous analogy, they are not the programmer, they seek to be the power user, who can realize the full potential of the software. This is like the guy who has mastered photoshopp 2015, or blender.
also in terms of lore, spells are cast, they use verbal, somatic and material components, Imagine a martial artist, who K.O. their opponents by saying some words, hand motions, and throwing a chicken bone. Thats not a martial artist.
Also, the theme and fantasy of the martial artist needs unique flavor. If haste is a spell, that every caster of a certain type has access to, thats not going to fit the flavor of how a martial artist achieves speed, or multiple attacks.
2)gameplay. Spell casting is designed primarily as a daily resource mechanic. It is also sub divided into various power teirs per day. This makes the primary gameplay strategic, which spells do I choose, and how do I apportion my resources, thats the primary game loop for casters. The gameplay that fits the monk is not that type of thing. The fantasy of a martial artist isnt, I can sometimes for a short period per long rest pull on fantastic powers, but I have to carefully manage their use. The fantasy is that I have trained and learned, and have new capabilities, and combat awareness. the gameplay that more closely lines up is short term resources, at will abilities, decisions based on the moment, reactions, round to round, not day focused decisions. The martial artist isnt the, I have certain number of special bullets guy.
I get that spell casting is the most developed, and versatile set of feature selection in the game, and the classes with access to it are generally better. However, that is actually a flaw, because the gameplay and theme of casters don't fit every class concept. Using that tool box may solve balance issues, and be easy to design, but it doesnt create a more interesting and diverse roleplaying game that encapsulates the fantasies of various tropes.
i haven't asked for an arcane subclass monk but i wouldn't say it doesn't work at all with the theme. they could easily be a sort of apothecary tradition that figured out how to mix spell components into a powder like ninjas in some of the final fantasy tactics games. keep a few of these pre-prepared packets around and use them to cause "spell-like effects" by... well, by casting that spell. perhaps give additional restriction that the spells don't work in the rain, wind, or strong underwater currents as the powerder must be dispersed before using both hands for the somatic components (no option for spellcasting focus). or just say it causes a ranged status effects with a minor elemental damage rider (so... cantrips). i wouldn't hate if shadow monks got some thrown weapon expertise and minor cool stuff to go with it, even if the damage was +INT.
it's the sort of thing i'd expect to see if devs ever realized people would buy a book of reskinned existing subclasses (Elements monk in this case) and niche lore. i think they're trying to keep their drool in their mouth when it comes to "flavor is free" sort of stuff, roped off like a nature preserve to be the domain of 3rd party publishers. but, there have been some weird cross-over IP monster manual editions and that Tal'Dorei book so who knows.
I've been toying with a write-up of the Monk as an Arcane half-caster... and I think it makes the class a lot cleaner.
You can of course do what you like, and everyone is entitled to their own perspective.
However, I have no interest in monk as a half caster, thats not what the primary fantasy of the class is.
to me this type of solution misses the goal, which is to have a cool martial artist go on adventures with their friends.
Here is why half caster and caster concepts don't fit.
1) Flavor/lore/world casting is a mental pursuit, it is themed as learning how the world works, and then following the proper methods for requesting/enacting a result, its like a less hands on version of science. Probably closest to programming. You got programmers(wizards), hackers(warlocks), and mods/admins(sorcerers). The theme is to obtain power too manipulate reality. None of this lines up with the monk,, whose primary fantasy is active, In the previous analogy, they are not the programmer, they seek to be the power user, who can realize the full potential of the software. This is like the guy who has mastered photoshopp 2015, or blender.
also in terms of lore, spells are cast, they use verbal, somatic and material components, Imagine a martial artist, who K.O. their opponents by saying some words, hand motions, and throwing a chicken bone. Thats not a martial artist.
Hand Motions like the exaggerated flourishes of Bruce Lee's movie characters, or Neo, before making a major fighting move? Or Verbal components like the steretypical kiai (both in real life, or the over-exaggerated ones done in movies ... like by Bruce Lee) made for a major attack? Or the repetition of a mantra, while adopting different types of stances or poses, while engaging some legendary ability?
Also, the theme and fantasy of the martial artist needs unique flavor. If haste is a spell, that every caster of a certain type has access to, thats not going to fit the flavor of how a martial artist achieves speed, or multiple attacks.
2)gameplay. Spell casting is designed primarily as a daily resource mechanic. It is also sub divided into various power teirs per day. This makes the primary gameplay strategic, which spells do I choose, and how do I apportion my resources, thats the primary game loop for casters. The gameplay that fits the monk is not that type of thing. The fantasy of a martial artist isnt, I can sometimes for a short period per long rest pull on fantastic powers, but I have to carefully manage their use. The fantasy is that I have trained and learned, and have new capabilities, and combat awareness. the gameplay that more closely lines up is short term resources, at will abilities, decisions based on the moment, reactions, round to round, not day focused decisions. The martial artist isnt the, I have certain number of special bullets guy.
I get that spell casting is the most developed, and versatile set of feature selection in the game, and the classes with access to it are generally better. However, that is actually a flaw, because the gameplay and theme of casters don't fit every class concept. Using that tool box may solve balance issues, and be easy to design, but it doesnt create a more interesting and diverse roleplaying game that encapsulates the fantasies of various tropes.
i haven't asked for an arcane subclass monk but i wouldn't say it doesn't work at all with the theme. they could easily be a sort of apothecary tradition that figured out how to mix spell components into a powder like ninjas in some of the final fantasy tactics games. keep a few of these pre-prepared packets around and use them to cause "spell-like effects" by... well, by casting that spell.
There's that. There's also the many legends around the source archetypes having magical abilities, like Marco Polo claiming that he witnessed a Monk in Asia having the ability to levitate, legends of Monks who could pass through solid walls, etc. And in past editions, many of their special abilities that were based on those legends were literally "you can cast this spell, even though you don't have spell slots." That was typically done as a "times per day" limit, but making that more flexible is basically where the ki/discipline point system came from. They could just as easily have taken that in the other direction: just giving the Monk spell slots as their regulating resource for those spells that the Monk could cast.
Then you add in the "mind over matter" aspect of the legends/tropes of Eastern Mysticism and martial-arts. In the current set of the rules, "psionics" (mind over matter) for spell casters are essentially a special case of Arcane magic (Abberant Mind Sorcery, Great Old One Warlock, etc.). The Monk as a half-caster/half-martial can also work those elements into the class.
So, whether you're talking about real world myths and legends, movie tropes, past editions of the D&D class, or even other games (both Shadowrun and Mage put mystical-martial-arts into the category of magic), the idea of Monks getting their mystical abilities via magic isn't anything unusual nor out of place ... nor is it new for D&D to implement that magic via existing spells.
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Rather than mucking with action economy like that, I'd probably go with
Everyone now gets a free feat at level one so not much of a feat tax for taking lightly armored feat. Since its free. But I would never make an armored monk either so i agree that there is not much use in making that kind of build. But it is interesting to explore whats possible for monks under the new rules.
That could work, too.
Personally, after playing bg3 where a subclass gets 2 bomus actions for free, I find it’s not too OP as far as action economy. Yes, the game is not tabletop, but it’s close enough in a lot of ways to be at least proof of concept.
Also, my way opens up some design space to make subclass abilities a BA, and then also qualify. Which, I know they can just add it to the list, like a domain spell, but I think just saying BA is simpler.
But, sure, this way gets you to about the same place.
Though I don’t know about doing four things on a BA, that could be 10 attacks a round, but if you’ve put 17 levels in monk, seems like you’ve probably earned some crazy stuff.
I think Pantagruel666's proposal is that there's no flurry of blows, because it rolls into the "do the same thing twice for 1 Ki" option via the single unarmed strike, so the maximum would be six at 17th-level (two regular, four as bonus action) or seven if we include Nick (the weapon mastery, not that other Nick, he knows what he did).
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dude awesome way to put it red pelt. My thoughts exactly. no one is asking to be god we just want to be competitive.
If their was a monk delegation id vote for kreen ,gwar and redpelt. alot of cool ideas you guys.
I was reveiwing the new character background rules and there are a few free level 1 feats that everyone can get that would help the monk right off the bat.
Tough Feat - +2 hp per level - very good for monks hit point issues due to low con scores. If you start your monk with 14 con and the tough feat you are getting an extra 4hp per level right from level 1. And its free. Thats pretty solid.
Tavern Brawler Feat- "Damage Rerolls. Whenever you roll a damage die for your Unarmed Strike, you can reroll the die if it rolls a 1, and you must use the new roll." ( Note that there is no once per turn limit on this.)
And also from the tavern brawler feat:
"Shove. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack Action on your turn, you can deal damage to the target and also push it 5 feet away. You can use this benefit only once per turn."
Free pushback is pretty good. I dont know why they restrict it to the attack action but it is still useful.
Skilled Feat - three free skill proficiencies, plus two from your background, plus two from being a monk. Starting with up to 7 skill proficiencies gives the monk a boost for out of combat utility where the monk is currently lacking.
The monk still has issues but i think these free feats do help fill in some of the gaps for monk.
Is that true, because that is not how I interpreted what he said. When Jeremy mentions those classes he specifically leaves out the monk and ranger. He said most of the classes are liked, "the rogue, the paladin, the cleric, the bard and even the druid received scores in the 70s or up into the 80s". He said in that group druid had the lowest satisfaction score but from what I understand he was excluding the monk and the ranger when he made that statement.
I just rewatched. I think you are right. My bad.
Hmm, Pantagruel's suggestion is interesting, though I should note that a bonus action dodge for free is like rising a multiclass alert, the same way Action Surge did. I'm not saying the option is bad, I'm just saying that the dodge option should include some restriction.
Also getting rid of FoB leads to further rewording of subclasses, namely Open Hand (which should use OHT on all unarmed strikes IMO), Drunken Master and Mercy. This also applies to others' suggestion of moving Martial Arts additional attack into the main action and making FoB only add 1 attack as a bonus action.
If everyone else starts with a loaf of bread and I give everyone money to go to the store to materials for a sandwich the monk needs to buy bread and the toppings. It’s a feat tax because because the Barbarian gets armor for free and you are telling monks to pay for it. Also more importantly it’s not possible for monks under the new rules since they would be surrendering their 1st level feature. Martial Arts stops working if you wear armor or use a shield.
these don't hold a candle to charger or a fighting style. also I'm pretty sure that pushback has a str saving throw.
I Hope they are not timid in the next monk revision and there are monk choices for what differing people prefer. kind if like the cleric and druid orders. I they just need a monk that will shock people a little bit imo .I think it would be cool if they added like a choice of something to enhance an aspect of the monk built in like more dmg on atks ,extra ki or ac
Yes, if you are making unarmed strike it would normally require a saving throw if you want to shove. The new version of the tavern brawler feat in the character origins playtest bypasses this giving you a free once per turn 5 foot shove with an unarmed strike.
Copy and pasted from tavern brawler:
"Shove. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack Action on your turn, you can deal damage to the target and also push it 5 feet away. You can use this benefit only once per turn."
I also hope they do something radical with the monk. The first rogue playtest did not go so well, but they did made some great improvements for the second rogue playtest so I am hopeful.
I’m doubtful, they already said Shadow and 4 Elements is done with Playtest. So whatever changes they make can’t effect those subclasses. That tells me they won’t do anything radical, but simple fixes can greatly improve the monk.
I've been toying with a write-up of the Monk as an Arcane half-caster... and I think it makes the class a lot cleaner.
You can of course do what you like, and everyone is entitled to their own perspective.
However, I have no interest in monk as a half caster, thats not what the primary fantasy of the class is.
to me this type of solution misses the goal, which is to have a cool martial artist go on adventures with their friends.
Here is why half caster and caster concepts don't fit.
1) Flavor/lore/world casting is a mental pursuit, it is themed as learning how the world works, and then following the proper methods for requesting/enacting a result, its like a less hands on version of science. Probably closest to programming. You got programmers(wizards), hackers(warlocks), and mods/admins(sorcerers). The theme is to obtain power too manipulate reality. None of this lines up with the monk,, whose primary fantasy is active, In the previous analogy, they are not the programmer, they seek to be the power user, who can realize the full potential of the software. This is like the guy who has mastered photoshopp 2015, or blender.
also in terms of lore, spells are cast, they use verbal, somatic and material components, Imagine a martial artist, who K.O. their opponents by saying some words, hand motions, and throwing a chicken bone. Thats not a martial artist.
Also, the theme and fantasy of the martial artist needs unique flavor. If haste is a spell, that every caster of a certain type has access to, thats not going to fit the flavor of how a martial artist achieves speed, or multiple attacks.
2)gameplay. Spell casting is designed primarily as a daily resource mechanic. It is also sub divided into various power teirs per day. This makes the primary gameplay strategic, which spells do I choose, and how do I apportion my resources, thats the primary game loop for casters. The gameplay that fits the monk is not that type of thing. The fantasy of a martial artist isnt, I can sometimes for a short period per long rest pull on fantastic powers, but I have to carefully manage their use. The fantasy is that I have trained and learned, and have new capabilities, and combat awareness. the gameplay that more closely lines up is short term resources, at will abilities, decisions based on the moment, reactions, round to round, not day focused decisions. The martial artist isnt the, I have certain number of special bullets guy.
I get that spell casting is the most developed, and versatile set of feature selection in the game, and the classes with access to it are generally better. However, that is actually a flaw, because the gameplay and theme of casters don't fit every class concept. Using that tool box may solve balance issues, and be easy to design, but it doesnt create a more interesting and diverse roleplaying game that encapsulates the fantasies of various tropes.
i haven't asked for an arcane subclass monk but i wouldn't say it doesn't work at all with the theme. they could easily be a sort of apothecary tradition that figured out how to mix spell components into a powder like ninjas in some of the final fantasy tactics games. keep a few of these pre-prepared packets around and use them to cause "spell-like effects" by... well, by casting that spell. perhaps give additional restriction that the spells don't work in the rain, wind, or strong underwater currents as the powerder must be dispersed before using both hands for the somatic components (no option for spellcasting focus). or just say it causes a ranged status effects with a minor elemental damage rider (so... cantrips). i wouldn't hate if shadow monks got some thrown weapon expertise and minor cool stuff to go with it, even if the damage was +INT.
it's the sort of thing i'd expect to see if devs ever realized people would buy a book of reskinned existing subclasses (Elements monk in this case) and niche lore. i think they're trying to keep their drool in their mouth when it comes to "flavor is free" sort of stuff, roped off like a nature preserve to be the domain of 3rd party publishers. but, there have been some weird cross-over IP monster manual editions and that Tal'Dorei book so who knows.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Hand Motions like the exaggerated flourishes of Bruce Lee's movie characters, or Neo, before making a major fighting move? Or Verbal components like the steretypical kiai (both in real life, or the over-exaggerated ones done in movies ... like by Bruce Lee) made for a major attack? Or the repetition of a mantra, while adopting different types of stances or poses, while engaging some legendary ability?
There's that. There's also the many legends around the source archetypes having magical abilities, like Marco Polo claiming that he witnessed a Monk in Asia having the ability to levitate, legends of Monks who could pass through solid walls, etc. And in past editions, many of their special abilities that were based on those legends were literally "you can cast this spell, even though you don't have spell slots." That was typically done as a "times per day" limit, but making that more flexible is basically where the ki/discipline point system came from. They could just as easily have taken that in the other direction: just giving the Monk spell slots as their regulating resource for those spells that the Monk could cast.
Then you add in the "mind over matter" aspect of the legends/tropes of Eastern Mysticism and martial-arts. In the current set of the rules, "psionics" (mind over matter) for spell casters are essentially a special case of Arcane magic (Abberant Mind Sorcery, Great Old One Warlock, etc.). The Monk as a half-caster/half-martial can also work those elements into the class.
So, whether you're talking about real world myths and legends, movie tropes, past editions of the D&D class, or even other games (both Shadowrun and Mage put mystical-martial-arts into the category of magic), the idea of Monks getting their mystical abilities via magic isn't anything unusual nor out of place ... nor is it new for D&D to implement that magic via existing spells.