-Build more subclass features based on flurry of blows, patient defense, and step of wind so the player gets more mileage out of those features without having to pay any extra ki.
Hand monk already does this, albeit horribly; what they should do is follow the Way of Mercy's style or the new Elements and Shadow.
-Have more subclass features that have a set number of uses per short or long rest and less subclass features that need any ki at all. Particularly for the level 3 and 6 monk subclass features.
I agree that low DP is an annoying issue, but it's not really THAT much of a problem for Shadow (Darkness is the only feature that uses DP until level 11) and it might bother Elements (Elemental Burst is a bit costly, but using it once along Attunement should be sufficient for the whole fight), Hand will use a DP on every turn to activate any of its features, so they might run out of DP even faster than Elements.
-There is not nearly enough ki to start the game. Adding your wisdom modifier to the starting ki pool is a bare minimum number.
True, but rather than increasing the number of DP, there should be a way to restore them outside of rests or magic items, like using a bonus action (wis times per long rest) to restore half your monk level (rounded up).
-Add longer durations to subclass features.
Hand issue. Shadow and Elements get features that can last the whole battle or even longer than that.
-Standardize discipline points to a long rest. Short rests are highly variable and because of this a monks' power level is wildly inconsistent from one table to the next.
That's why I want an alternate way to restore DP, if you move them to long rest dependency, you need to double the amount of DP you get, and this will cause strong DP features to weaken (not immediately, but you can be sure WotC may erase Diamond Soul and Empty body completely if that happens).
-Make the value of one ki/discipline point more potent.
I'm not sure about this one because DP's value are incosistent across the subclasses. According to Shadow, 1 DP = a 2nd level spell (Darkness), and 3 DP = a 4th level spell (Greater Invisibility) + 2 other abilities; however, according to Elements, 1 DP = a 3rd level spell (Fly) or 1 DP = a 3rd level spell (Asharladon's Stride) + other abilities. Hand does not have a feature with a spell equivalent (at least not anymore), so if we use 5e Open Hand, then we get that 3 ki = a 9th level spell (kinda).
I understand that the only offensive features that the base class offers are FoB and Stunning Strike, but we, the players, should not fall into thinking that that's the only way to play monk, that's what subclasses are there for. In fact, I suspect that Stunning Strike was weakened to disencourage its use, so that WotC can do away with the ability or add something more powerful to the subclasses, because if Stunning Strike is stronger than what your subclass is trying to do, then the subclass is pointless (this all points to Hand being really bad as a subclass now). So far 2/3 of the subclasses work, even with the "problems" the base class may have, what we should be asking for is a new revision of Hand, we have yet to see how the other subclasses will be reworked.
You have some great points. The value of ki is wildly inconsistent. The new elements monk gets to spend 1ki and push oponents around for 10 minutes at no additional ki but the open hand monk has to spend 1ki per round to do it. Thats a big discrepancy. Unfortunately open hand got the shaft in this UA. Restoring dp is also good idea if they can figure out how to make it work. Heigtened metabolism is close but i dont think its quite there yet.
Heightened Metabolism could be part of Martial Discipline at 2nd level and only give Discipline Points back at 2nd-6th level. Then at 7th it gets upgraded to give benefits of short rest as it does now.
-Build more subclass features based on flurry of blows, patient defense, and step of wind so the player gets more mileage out of those features without having to pay any extra ki.
Hand monk already does this, albeit horribly; what they should do is follow the Way of Mercy's style or the new Elements and Shadow.
-Have more subclass features that have a set number of uses per short or long rest and less subclass features that need any ki at all. Particularly for the level 3 and 6 monk subclass features.
I agree that low DP is an annoying issue, but it's not really THAT much of a problem for Shadow (Darkness is the only feature that uses DP until level 11) and it might bother Elements (Elemental Burst is a bit costly, but using it once along Attunement should be sufficient for the whole fight), Hand will use a DP on every turn to activate any of its features, so they might run out of DP even faster than Elements.
-There is not nearly enough ki to start the game. Adding your wisdom modifier to the starting ki pool is a bare minimum number.
True, but rather than increasing the number of DP, there should be a way to restore them outside of rests or magic items, like using a bonus action (wis times per long rest) to restore half your monk level (rounded up).
-Add longer durations to subclass features.
Hand issue. Shadow and Elements get features that can last the whole battle or even longer than that.
-Standardize discipline points to a long rest. Short rests are highly variable and because of this a monks' power level is wildly inconsistent from one table to the next.
That's why I want an alternate way to restore DP, if you move them to long rest dependency, you need to double the amount of DP you get, and this will cause strong DP features to weaken (not immediately, but you can be sure WotC may erase Diamond Soul and Empty body completely if that happens).
-Make the value of one ki/discipline point more potent.
I'm not sure about this one because DP's value are incosistent across the subclasses. According to Shadow, 1 DP = a 2nd level spell (Darkness), and 3 DP = a 4th level spell (Greater Invisibility) + 2 other abilities; however, according to Elements, 1 DP = a 3rd level spell (Fly) or 1 DP = a 3rd level spell (Asharladon's Stride) + other abilities. Hand does not have a feature with a spell equivalent (at least not anymore), so if we use 5e Open Hand, then we get that 3 ki = a 9th level spell (kinda).
I understand that the only offensive features that the base class offers are FoB and Stunning Strike, but we, the players, should not fall into thinking that that's the only way to play monk, that's what subclasses are there for. In fact, I suspect that Stunning Strike was weakened to disencourage its use, so that WotC can do away with the ability or add something more powerful to the subclasses, because if Stunning Strike is stronger than what your subclass is trying to do, then the subclass is pointless (this all points to Hand being really bad as a subclass now). So far 2/3 of the subclasses work, even with the "problems" the base class may have, what we should be asking for is a new revision of Hand, we have yet to see how the other subclasses will be reworked.
You have some great points. The value of ki is wildly inconsistent. The new elements monk gets to spend 1ki and push oponents around for 10 minutes at no additional ki but the open hand monk has to spend 1ki per round to do it. Thats a big discrepancy. Unfortunately open hand got the shaft in this UA. Restoring dp is also good idea if they can figure out how to make it work. Heigtened metabolism is close but i dont think its quite there yet.
Heightened Metabolism could be part of Martial Discipline at 2nd level and only give Discipline Points back at 2nd-6th level. Then at 7th it gets upgraded to give benefits of short rest as it does now.
That would work and also help to avoid any multiclassing into monk for the free short rest.
Make flurry of blows have static Die but scale like cantrips? that would make it a Flurry of blows for real without scaling too much.
static damage die but progressively add more dice damage as it steps up at certain levels? that's pretty much the same as scaling the damage die with level which is what already occurs.
although i'd entertain a static damage die iff the number of blows was determined by a d4 and the number of d4 dice was what stepped up with leveling. give me a gamble that tempts me out of my defensive bonus actions comfort zone, especially at higher levels!
Make flurry of blows have static Die but scale like cantrips? that would make it a Flurry of blows for real without scaling too much.
static damage die but progressively add more dice damage as it steps up at certain levels? that's pretty much the same as scaling the damage die with level which is what already occurs.
although i'd entertain a static damage die iff the number of blows was determined by a d4 and the number of d4 dice was what stepped up with leveling. give me a gamble that tempts me out of my defensive bonus actions comfort zone, especially at higher levels!
Um.. sorry but have you never played with a monk? Most monks use FoB most of the time as it is, because without it you deal so little damage that enemies aren't going to attack you anyway. Oooh 2 * (1d8+4) damage? Well the barbarian just hit them for 2*(2d6+6) or the paladin smote them for 2*(1d8+6)+3d8 or the ranger just pin cushioned them for 3* (1d6+4) or the Warlock just Eldritch Blasted them for 2*(1d10+4)+1d6. Why in the world would the enemy attack the monk?
Make flurry of blows have static Die but scale like cantrips? that would make it a Flurry of blows for real without scaling too much.
static damage die but progressively add more dice damage as it steps up at certain levels? that's pretty much the same as scaling the damage die with level which is what already occurs.
although i'd entertain a static damage die iff the number of blows was determined by a d4 and the number of d4 dice was what stepped up with leveling. give me a gamble that tempts me out of my defensive bonus actions comfort zone, especially at higher levels!
Um.. sorry but have you never played with a monk? Most monks use FoB most of the time as it is, because without it you deal so little damage that enemies aren't going to attack you anyway. Oooh 2 * (1d8+4) damage? Well the barbarian just hit them for 2*(2d6+6) or the paladin smote them for 2*(1d8+6)+3d8 or the ranger just pin cushioned them for 3* (1d6+4) or the Warlock just Eldritch Blasted them for 2*(1d10+4)+1d6. Why in the world would the enemy attack the monk?
i honestly don't track dpr at the table nor do i feel inadequate to others as long as i get to say "pop! pop!" on my turn. a lot of dpr discussion has me pinching the bridge of my nose and moving on but sometimes i drop a comment. and here we are. anyway, instead of adding a damage die at 5th/11th/17th which is essentially adding one more blow to the flurry, my suggestion was to instead add an additional d4 blows at those levels but keep the fixed damage die. although i didn't put an ounce of math into "fixed damage die" yet...
so, rather than [2 * (1d8+4)] =17 flurry damage, per my suggestion it would be more like [1d4+1 * (1d4+4)] =22.75 average flurry with a fixed d4 damage die, =26.25 average with a fixed d6, or =29.75 average with the martial arts d8 at level 5. also, we're just discussing flurry of blows and entirely ignoring the attack action and extra attack feature: another 17 damage per round that could be compared favorably against that barbarian or whatnot if you like. it seems the monk has the flexibility to spend a resource to double their damage or they could instead do something like close with and grapple a mage without feeling like they disarmed their own group by doing so.
oh, and the cantrip-scaled flurry of blows i suppose would have been ...[2 * (2d4+4)] = 18 average flurry? =22 (@d6), =26 (@d8) or ...or [2+1 * (1d4+4)] =19.5 avg flurry? =22.5 (@d6), =25.5 (@d8) ...vs a wizard's [1 * (2d10+4)] =15 average firebolt at 5th level ...vs a warlock's [2 * (1d10+4)] =19 average EB at 5th level, 22.5 with UA Hex
Make flurry of blows have static Die but scale like cantrips? that would make it a Flurry of blows for real without scaling too much.
static damage die but progressively add more dice damage as it steps up at certain levels? that's pretty much the same as scaling the damage die with level which is what already occurs.
although i'd entertain a static damage die iff the number of blows was determined by a d4 and the number of d4 dice was what stepped up with leveling. give me a gamble that tempts me out of my defensive bonus actions comfort zone, especially at higher levels!
Um.. sorry but have you never played with a monk? Most monks use FoB most of the time as it is, because without it you deal so little damage that enemies aren't going to attack you anyway. Oooh 2 * (1d8+4) damage? Well the barbarian just hit them for 2*(2d6+6) or the paladin smote them for 2*(1d8+6)+3d8 or the ranger just pin cushioned them for 3* (1d6+4) or the Warlock just Eldritch Blasted them for 2*(1d10+4)+1d6. Why in the world would the enemy attack the monk?
i honestly don't track dpr at the table nor do i feel inadequate to others as long as i get to say "pop! pop!" on my turn. a lot of dpr discussion has me pinching the bridge of my nose and moving on but sometimes i drop a comment. and here we are. anyway, instead of adding a damage die at 5th/11th/17th which is essentially adding one more blow to the flurry, my suggestion was to instead add an additional d4 blows at those levels but keep the fixed damage die. although i didn't put an ounce of math into "fixed damage die" yet...
so, rather than [2 * (1d8+4)] =17 flurry damage, per my suggestion it would be more like [1d4+1 * (1d4+4)] =22.75 average flurry with a fixed d4 damage die, =26.25 average with a fixed d6, or =29.75 average with the martial arts d8 at level 5. also, we're just discussing flurry of blows and entirely ignoring the attack action and extra attack feature: another 17 damage per round that could be compared favorably against that barbarian or whatnot if you like. it seems the monk has the flexibility to spend a resource to double their damage or they could instead do something like close with and grapple a mage without feeling like they disarmed their own group by doing so.
oh, and the cantrip-scaled flurry of blows i suppose would have been ...[2 * (2d4+4)] = 18 average flurry? =22 (@d6), =26 (@d8) or ...or [2+1 * (1d4+4)] =19.5 avg flurry? =22.5 (@d6), =25.5 (@d8) ...vs a wizard's [1 * (2d10+4)] =15 average firebolt at 5th level ...vs a warlock's [2 * (1d10+4)] =19 average EB at 5th level, 22.5 with UA Hex
Flurry only really add one extra attack that increase with martial die D6-D8-D10-D12 +mod, cantrip style its almost like extra attack on DP cost on Bonus action depending on lvl would be multiple more dice + mod would certainly scale with more dmg, plus higher lower floor. Also it can be used to sacrifice die like cunning strike for extra effects.
Flurry only really add one extra attack that increase with martial die D6-D8-D10-D12 +mod, cantrip style its almost like extra attack on DP cost on Bonus action depending on lvl would be multiple more dice + mod would certainly scale with more dmg, plus higher lower floor. Also it can be used to sacrifice die like cunning strike for extra effects.
if a 5th level barbarian with extra attack is doing [2 * (2d6+6)] =26 avg, and 5th level monk with extra + bonus (but not flurry) is doing [3 * (1d8+4)] =25.5 avg... then monk at this tier seems appropriately matched even before flurry is included. hit chance for 2 vs 3 strikes might change things and scaling might skew away from matching the other martials at some higher level but i'm not seeing that argued here.
additionally, i don't really want cunning strikes for monks. it's okay for rogues to have a cool and unique mechanism that's just theirs. it's also entirely okay to be annoyed that monks haven't received the same level of creative development focus.
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
But it does not match because the lack to get combat feats, due to 1st you have to invest mostly in ASI for your AC (dependent of Dex AND Wis), and because many requires Martial Weapon proficiency (that could be solved with the coming back of the short sword proficiency for the Monk).
If you can get appropriate combat feats it could match well, probably some less damage, but greater mobility and very efficient hit-and-run style. And at higher level with more Ki you can spam more FoB for greater damage.
Probably we need some extra feats because for martial arts we have few options. The monk cannot get the GWM and others of the same kind to improve its damage.
Heightened Metabolism could be part of Martial Discipline at 2nd level and only give Discipline Points back at 2nd-6th level. Then at 7th it gets upgraded to give benefits of short rest as it does now.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
That would work and also help to avoid any multiclassing into monk for the free short rest.
Make flurry of blows have static Die but scale like cantrips? that would make it a Flurry of blows for real without scaling too much.
static damage die but progressively add more dice damage as it steps up at certain levels? that's pretty much the same as scaling the damage die with level which is what already occurs.
although i'd entertain a static damage die iff the number of blows was determined by a d4 and the number of d4 dice was what stepped up with leveling. give me a gamble that tempts me out of my defensive bonus actions comfort zone, especially at higher levels!
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Um.. sorry but have you never played with a monk? Most monks use FoB most of the time as it is, because without it you deal so little damage that enemies aren't going to attack you anyway. Oooh 2 * (1d8+4) damage? Well the barbarian just hit them for 2*(2d6+6) or the paladin smote them for 2*(1d8+6)+3d8 or the ranger just pin cushioned them for 3* (1d6+4) or the Warlock just Eldritch Blasted them for 2*(1d10+4)+1d6. Why in the world would the enemy attack the monk?
i honestly don't track dpr at the table nor do i feel inadequate to others as long as i get to say "pop! pop!" on my turn. a lot of dpr discussion has me pinching the bridge of my nose and moving on but sometimes i drop a comment. and here we are. anyway, instead of adding a damage die at 5th/11th/17th which is essentially adding one more blow to the flurry, my suggestion was to instead add an additional d4 blows at those levels but keep the fixed damage die. although i didn't put an ounce of math into "fixed damage die" yet...
so, rather than [2 * (1d8+4)] =17 flurry damage, per my suggestion it would be more like [1d4+1 * (1d4+4)] =22.75 average flurry with a fixed d4 damage die, =26.25 average with a fixed d6, or =29.75 average with the martial arts d8 at level 5. also, we're just discussing flurry of blows and entirely ignoring the attack action and extra attack feature: another 17 damage per round that could be compared favorably against that barbarian or whatnot if you like. it seems the monk has the flexibility to spend a resource to double their damage or they could instead do something like close with and grapple a mage without feeling like they disarmed their own group by doing so.
oh, and the cantrip-scaled flurry of blows i suppose would have been
...[2 * (2d4+4)] = 18 average flurry? =22 (@d6), =26 (@d8) or
...or [2+1 * (1d4+4)] =19.5 avg flurry? =22.5 (@d6), =25.5 (@d8)
...vs a wizard's [1 * (2d10+4)] =15 average firebolt at 5th level
...vs a warlock's [2 * (1d10+4)] =19 average EB at 5th level, 22.5 with UA Hex
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Flurry only really add one extra attack that increase with martial die D6-D8-D10-D12 +mod, cantrip style its almost like extra attack on DP cost on Bonus action depending on lvl would be multiple more dice + mod would certainly scale with more dmg, plus higher lower floor. Also it can be used to sacrifice die like cunning strike for extra effects.
if a 5th level barbarian with extra attack is doing [2 * (2d6+6)] =26 avg, and 5th level monk with extra + bonus (but not flurry) is doing [3 * (1d8+4)] =25.5 avg... then monk at this tier seems appropriately matched even before flurry is included. hit chance for 2 vs 3 strikes might change things and scaling might skew away from matching the other martials at some higher level but i'm not seeing that argued here.
additionally, i don't really want cunning strikes for monks. it's okay for rogues to have a cool and unique mechanism that's just theirs. it's also entirely okay to be annoyed that monks haven't received the same level of creative development focus.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
But it does not match because the lack to get combat feats, due to 1st you have to invest mostly in ASI for your AC (dependent of Dex AND Wis), and because many requires Martial Weapon proficiency (that could be solved with the coming back of the short sword proficiency for the Monk).
If you can get appropriate combat feats it could match well, probably some less damage, but greater mobility and very efficient hit-and-run style. And at higher level with more Ki you can spam more FoB for greater damage.
Probably we need some extra feats because for martial arts we have few options. The monk cannot get the GWM and others of the same kind to improve its damage.