That's fair. Not all subclass features are likely to mesh perfectly with every possible playstyle. This one is clearly more intended for blastery-flavoured warlocks.
Now, if only there was a future invocation that built on Thirsting Blade to give it the Bladesinger/Eldritch Knight treatment to weave in a cantrip in the attacks, that'd be just awesomecakes :)
Hey, WotC? Take note here, okay?
Yeah.. NO! Eldritch Blast alone is comparable to a Fighter's full action, and now you want to give them that plus 2 weapon attacks plus a possible 3rd attack using Nick or as a bonus action??? Why not just delete every other class in the game, warlock gets to be simultaneously the most powerful caster and the most powerful martial, so everyone else is redundant.
That is true... As of UA7, is there anything stopping a Bladesinger or Eldritch Knight from grabbing Eldritch Blast via Magical Intitiate? With the Eldritch Knight then Action Surging and casting 4 or 8 blasts per attack action? And then using that metamagic feat to quicken a fifth casting of EB for another 4 blasts?
That is true... As of UA7, is there anything stopping a Bladesinger or Eldritch Knight from grabbing Eldritch Blast via Magical Intitiate? With the Eldritch Knight then Action Surging and casting 4 or 8 blasts per attack action? And then using that metamagic feat to quicken a fifth casting of EB for another 4 blasts?
Nope, which is why my all-caps comment when the survey comes out will be that EB should be a class feature that scales with warlock level.
Do you want some tea? I'mma make you some tea. We'll have some tea and talk about 3.x when the Warlock actually had Eldritch Blast as a class feature, and why Magic of the Incarnum was the best never-used splatbook.
I hate the change to counter spell... and honestly feel the way they changed it made the spell not worth taking in the first place.
I understand that a lot of folks desired a change to the spell itself... but choosing CON saves of all things make it silly to pick up... CON saves tend to be one of the stronger saves that enemies get.
I hate the change to counter spell... and honestly feel the way they changed it made the spell not worth taking in the first place.
I understand that a lot of folks desired a change to the spell itself... but choosing CON saves of all things make it silly to pick up... CON saves tend to be one of the stronger saves that enemies get.
Yes, but not the casters. And counterspell is against casters, obviously.
That said, I don't like cons to avoid the counterspell either. I think int, or even wis, make more sense.
I hate the change to counter spell... and honestly feel the way they changed it made the spell not worth taking in the first place.
I understand that a lot of folks desired a change to the spell itself... but choosing CON saves of all things make it silly to pick up... CON saves tend to be one of the stronger saves that enemies get.
Yes, but not the casters. And counterspell is against casters, obviously.
That said, I don't like cons to avoid the counterspell either. I think int, or even wis, make more sense.
It depends on who is doing the casting.. sometimes you could get lucky, with the way the current system works, and get counterspell off against a dragon... which would be no longer a thing if CON saves are involved (and it's not like dragons don't have several other things that you can't counter spell to begin with).
LEVEL 3: CLAMMY HANDS Your patron bestows on you a set of truly, uncompromisingly clammy hands. As an action, you can inflict the frightened condition on a humanoid target, or the charmed condition on an aberration. They may make a Wisdom saving throw at the end of each of their turns to end this condition. At level 6 you may instead inflict the confused condition on the target, as your pallid palpatations usher them into madness.
After using this action a number of times equal to your Charisma, you must think long and hard about what you've just done. This can be done during a Long Rest.
Thank you. You've come in like a breath of fresh air when far too many people were in danger of being far too serious.
*tips her umbrella* Thank you, that's so kind of you to say! :)
I have at least an... orange belt (is that a thing?) in verbal jui-jitsu! And I use it for justice and prying the occasional snort-laugh from the internet at large.
Rather than creating my own thread, I'm just going to turn this into the "overall thoughts on UA7" Thread.
Warlock Oh boy....
Still devastated that they removed choosing your modifier.
I still think regaining all your Pact slots on a short rest is a bad design.
Oh and the Warlock spell list is back...woohoo... Crawford claimed that they are making a lot more spells up-castable, however it's...funny that the only Warlock spell included lost it.
Oh look guys! We get a worse version of Arcane Recovery!! Look at us swimming in that 1 extra spell we can cast!!
It's also funny how it just turns into Eldritch Mastery at 20th. Like, was WoTC scared that having 6 spellslots recoverable per day was broken at 20th level? Wait till they learn about Wish and True Polymorph!
I do like that Agonizing Blast is no longer purely tied to Eldritch Blast. Though I kind of wish they did more with it. As it currently stands Eldritch Blast is still the must pick levels 5+.
Not sure how I fully feel about Pact Boons being Invocations, but I'm not against it.
Glad most of the innovations have lower level requirements.
I low key wonder if they removed Medium Armor training to encourage people use Armor of Shadows. Like, why is this still here? Who is going to take an invocation for 1 AC?
The warlock changes are pretty disappointing. Pact magic's return is bad. Thanks, people who don't play warlocks. I don't mind losing choosing your own modifier, but they really needed to make it INT like it was in the original 5e playtest. recovering a spell slot 1/day? wooo. So exciting.
This warlock is a massive disappointment. The only thing we can do is absolutely blast it in the feedback.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Rather than creating my own thread, I'm just going to turn this into the "overall thoughts on UA7" Thread.
Warlock Oh boy....
Still devastated that they removed choosing your modifier.
I still think regaining all your Pact slots on a short rest is a bad design.
Oh and the Warlock spell list is back...woohoo... Crawford claimed that they are making a lot more spells up-castable, however it's...funny that the only Warlock spell included lost it.
Oh look guys! We get a worse version of Arcane Recovery!! Look at us swimming in that 1 extra spell we can cast!!
It's also funny how it just turns into Eldritch Mastery at 20th. Like, was WoTC scared that having 6 spellslots recoverable per day was broken at 20th level? Wait till they learn about Wish and True Polymorph!
I do like that Agonizing Blast is no longer purely tied to Eldritch Blast. Though I kind of wish they did more with it. As it currently stands Eldritch Blast is still the must pick levels 5+.
Not sure how I fully feel about Pact Boons being Invocations, but I'm not against it.
Glad most of the innovations have lower level requirements.
I low key wonder if they removed Medium Armor training to encourage people use Armor of Shadows. Like, why is this still here? Who is going to take an invocation for 1 AC?
The warlock changes are pretty disappointing. Pact magic's return is bad. Thanks, people who don't play warlocks. I don't mind losing choosing your own modifier, but they really needed to make it INT like it was in the original 5e playtest. recovering a spell slot 1/day? wooo. So exciting.
This warlock is a massive disappointment. The only thing we can do is absolutely blast it in the feedback.
So you want a caster that is like every other caster? Play a different caster class!
So you want a caster that is like every other caster? Play a different caster class!
There are choices other than "keep the class exactly the way it is in the 2014 release - largely failed" and "give it the same spell progression as wizards and sorcerers."
So you want a caster that is like every other caster? Play a different caster class!
There are choices other than "keep the class exactly the way it is in the 2014 release - largely failed" and "give it the same spell progression as wizards and sorcerers."
I don't disagree, but it feels like what you want to achieve is either bend the game around to your will or be a different caster.
You feel you don't have enough spell slots... well, all the other full casters have more slots. And some of them have recovery options. Now in this ua, I think they even have short rest recovery options.
Mostly I just see you throwing a tantrum and cursing a lot (and I like to swear like a pirate, so that's saying something), and thinking that causing a big stink is going to magically make things go your way.
Even if someone comes up with an amazing yurei specific answer that you are guaranteed to like and homebrew with your DM so you never have to deal with rules as written, I don't think it will appeal to you because you wouldn't be happy with just YOUR games making you what you want, you want everyone to agree with you and shower you with praise. And this behavior really isn't going to.illicit that.
Finally, none of us are devs. We can speculate and theorize as much as we want and the best we can do is work out what we want to homebrew for our own games or discuss ideas for the sake of enjoying people's company. Our voices don't really matter either.
Go spam the creators if you want those changes. Tell them why they're so wrong and why your idea is awesome. You're not going to have much impact here...
That is true... As of UA7, is there anything stopping a Bladesinger or Eldritch Knight from grabbing Eldritch Blast via Magical Intitiate? With the Eldritch Knight then Action Surging and casting 4 or 8 blasts per attack action? And then using that metamagic feat to quicken a fifth casting of EB for another 4 blasts?
Nope, which is why my all-caps comment when the survey comes out will be that EB should be a class feature that scales with warlock level.
I might be missing something, but I think the wording on War Magic does prevent spamming EB with an Eldritch Knight. At least in an way that any other class couldn't do it as well.
"When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of the attacks with a casting of one of your Wizard cantrips that has a casting time of an action."
The first part I believe would allow the spamming (up to 3 casts), but at the end it does say it has to be one of your Wizard cantrips which shuts out the possibility. Magic Initiate leaves the cantrips gained as cantrips for the class you chose to pull from, I believe, so no War Magic there if that is the case. Even multi-classing wouldn't help because they wouldn't be Wizard cantrips. And you can't Action Surge for just two casts of EB since Action Surge specifically excludes the Magic action.
I might be missing something, but I think the wording on War Magic does prevent spamming EB with an Eldritch Knight. At least in an way that any other class couldn't do it as well.
"When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of the attacks with a casting of one of your Wizard cantrips that has a casting time of an action."
The first part I believe would allow the spamming (up to 3 casts), but at the end it does say it has to be one of your Wizard cantrips which shuts out the possibility. Magic Initiate leaves the cantrips gained as cantrips for the class you chose to pull from, I believe, so no War Magic there if that is the case. Even multi-classing wouldn't help because they wouldn't be Wizard cantrips. And you can't Action Surge for just two casts of EB since Action Surge specifically excludes the Magic action.
Right! You're totally on to something here. It's definitely the case that Eldritch Knight is obligated to use Wizard spells in their (Improved) War Magic feature. Good catch!
However, the Eldritch Knight isn't taking the Magic action. They're taking the Attack action, and due to their features are able to substitute one attack for a cantrip, and two attacks for a spell (which may or may not be restricted to level 1 or 2). So, thankfully the Eldritch Knight isn't able to full-auto 20 Eldritch Blast blasts in one nova turn. Instead, they can cast two cantrips (maybe Ray of Frost to fully immobilise a target with 40 speed or less) on their first attack action (as well as attacking once with their weapon for their fourth attack), do that a second time through Action Surge. And THEN use Metamagic Adept (Quicken) plus Magic Initiate (Warlock) to throw a quad's worth of Eldritch Blast as a dessert. Maybe not as outrageous as the EB x5, but still quite a lot of boom!
I might be missing something, but I think the wording on War Magic does prevent spamming EB with an Eldritch Knight. At least in an way that any other class couldn't do it as well.
"When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of the attacks with a casting of one of your Wizard cantrips that has a casting time of an action."
The first part I believe would allow the spamming (up to 3 casts), but at the end it does say it has to be one of your Wizard cantrips which shuts out the possibility. Magic Initiate leaves the cantrips gained as cantrips for the class you chose to pull from, I believe, so no War Magic there if that is the case. Even multi-classing wouldn't help because they wouldn't be Wizard cantrips. And you can't Action Surge for just two casts of EB since Action Surge specifically excludes the Magic action.
Right! You're totally on to something here. It's definitely the case that Eldritch Knight is obligated to use Wizard spells in their (Improved) War Magic feature. Good catch!
However, the Eldritch Knight isn't taking the Magic action. They're taking the Attack action, and due to their features are able to substitute one attack for a cantrip, and two attacks for a spell (which may or may not be restricted to level 1 or 2). So, thankfully the Eldritch Knight isn't able to full-auto 20 Eldritch Blast blasts in one nova turn. Instead, they can cast two cantrips (maybe Ray of Frost to fully immobilise a target with 40 speed or less) on their first attack action (as well as attacking once with their weapon for their fourth attack), do that a second time through Action Surge. And THEN use Metamagic Adept (Quicken) plus Magic Initiate (Warlock) to throw a quad's worth of Eldritch Blast as a dessert. Maybe not as outrageous as the EB x5, but still quite a lot of boom!
Pew-pew-pew-pew! ... stab-stab.
The Magic action part was just me addressing the idea for cast EB, Action Surge cast EB, and Metamagic the bonus action cast. They can still absolutely dish out some crazy combos now, I agree.
I will say that it looks like we might be interpreting how many cantrips are usable per attack action unless I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that in one Attack action they could cast Ray of Frost twice or was that meant across the two actions? I didn't see it as for every one attack you give up you get a cantrip cast, more on the Attack action you can only replace one with a cantrip. Maybe that's something WotC needs to clear up in the wording of the feature.
I will say that it looks like we might be interpreting how many cantrips are usable per attack action unless I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that in one Attack action they could cast Ray of Frost twice or was that meant across the two actions? I didn't see it as for every one attack you give up you get a cantrip cast, more on the Attack action you can only replace one with a cantrip. Maybe that's something WotC needs to clear up in the wording of the feature.
Now, I'm open to the possibility that I am misreading the Improved War Magic trait, on inferring things that aren't there, but here's my line of thought:
* Level 18 Eldritch Knight takes the attack action. * Due to War Magic (7th level feature), they're allowed to substitute one of their 3 attacks (due to 11th level feature Two Extra Attacks) for a Wizard cantrip. * Due to Improved War Magic, they're allowed to substitute two attacks for a Wizard spell. There's nothing here that says this feature in mutually exclusive with basic War Magic, and thus the Eldritch Knight can substitute all of their attacks to cast two spells, one cantrip and one other (which can also be a cantrip). * If they Action surge, they can do this a second time since they're not taking the magic action. * The core rule about casting multiple spells allows for any number of cantrips each turn.
This all hinges on the interpretation that you can use both War Magic AND Improved War Magic to divvy up your pool of attacks into different spells instead of, you know, attacks. But as it currently stands, it seems like you can.
I will say that it looks like we might be interpreting how many cantrips are usable per attack action unless I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that in one Attack action they could cast Ray of Frost twice or was that meant across the two actions? I didn't see it as for every one attack you give up you get a cantrip cast, more on the Attack action you can only replace one with a cantrip. Maybe that's something WotC needs to clear up in the wording of the feature.
Now, I'm open to the possibility that I am misreading the Improved War Magic trait, on inferring things that aren't there, but here's my line of thought:
* Level 18 Eldritch Knight takes the attack action. * Due to War Magic (7th level feature), they're allowed to substitute one of their 3 attacks (due to 11th level feature Two Extra Attacks) for a Wizard cantrip. * Due to Improved War Magic, they're allowed to substitute two attacks for a Wizard spell. There's nothing here that says this feature in mutually exclusive with basic War Magic, and thus the Eldritch Knight can substitute all of their attacks two cast two spells, one cantrip and one other (which can also be a cantrip). * If they Action surge, they can do this a second time since they're not taking the magic action. * The core rule about casting multiple spells allows for any number of cantrips each turn.
This all hinges on the interpretation that you can use both War Magic AND Improved War Magic to divvy up your pool of attacks into different spells instead of, you know, attacks. But as it currently stands, it seems like you can.
Am I way off in how I read this?
Nope, I don't think you're off at all. I was the one misunderstanding what you had said, and I 100% agree with that line of thought.
It could really open up some fun turns if you can use both features. There weren't many changes to the EK that I was hoping for, but the change to War Magic and the spell school restriction being lifted the main two I felt were needed to make the subclass not compete with its own class.
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Ooh, yeah! With Booming Blade, that's almost like a mini-Sentinel effect. You want to keep moving? You ready to explode just a little, mister?
Yeah.. NO! Eldritch Blast alone is comparable to a Fighter's full action, and now you want to give them that plus 2 weapon attacks plus a possible 3rd attack using Nick or as a bonus action??? Why not just delete every other class in the game, warlock gets to be simultaneously the most powerful caster and the most powerful martial, so everyone else is redundant.
That is true... As of UA7, is there anything stopping a Bladesinger or Eldritch Knight from grabbing Eldritch Blast via Magical Intitiate? With the Eldritch Knight then Action Surging and casting 4 or 8 blasts per attack action? And then using that metamagic feat to quicken a fifth casting of EB for another 4 blasts?
Nope, which is why my all-caps comment when the survey comes out will be that EB should be a class feature that scales with warlock level.
Do you want some tea? I'mma make you some tea. We'll have some tea and talk about 3.x when the Warlock actually had Eldritch Blast as a class feature, and why Magic of the Incarnum was the best never-used splatbook.
I hate the change to counter spell... and honestly feel the way they changed it made the spell not worth taking in the first place.
I understand that a lot of folks desired a change to the spell itself... but choosing CON saves of all things make it silly to pick up... CON saves tend to be one of the stronger saves that enemies get.
Yes, but not the casters. And counterspell is against casters, obviously.
That said, I don't like cons to avoid the counterspell either. I think int, or even wis, make more sense.
It depends on who is doing the casting.. sometimes you could get lucky, with the way the current system works, and get counterspell off against a dragon... which would be no longer a thing if CON saves are involved (and it's not like dragons don't have several other things that you can't counter spell to begin with).
Thats cause its not even 6th ed. Its like 5.1 edition. Really just an excuse to sell all the same books again.
Be nice if they were actually making a new edition. This is just an errata.
Thank you. You've come in like a breath of fresh air when far too many people were in danger of being far too serious.
*tips her umbrella* Thank you, that's so kind of you to say! :)
I have at least an... orange belt (is that a thing?) in verbal jui-jitsu! And I use it for justice and prying the occasional snort-laugh from the internet at large.
The warlock changes are pretty disappointing. Pact magic's return is bad. Thanks, people who don't play warlocks. I don't mind losing choosing your own modifier, but they really needed to make it INT like it was in the original 5e playtest. recovering a spell slot 1/day? wooo. So exciting.
This warlock is a massive disappointment. The only thing we can do is absolutely blast it in the feedback.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
So you want a caster that is like every other caster? Play a different caster class!
There are choices other than "keep the class exactly the way it is in the 2014 release - largely failed" and "give it the same spell progression as wizards and sorcerers."
Please do not contact or message me.
I don't disagree, but it feels like what you want to achieve is either bend the game around to your will or be a different caster.
You feel you don't have enough spell slots... well, all the other full casters have more slots. And some of them have recovery options. Now in this ua, I think they even have short rest recovery options.
Mostly I just see you throwing a tantrum and cursing a lot (and I like to swear like a pirate, so that's saying something), and thinking that causing a big stink is going to magically make things go your way.
Even if someone comes up with an amazing yurei specific answer that you are guaranteed to like and homebrew with your DM so you never have to deal with rules as written, I don't think it will appeal to you because you wouldn't be happy with just YOUR games making you what you want, you want everyone to agree with you and shower you with praise. And this behavior really isn't going to.illicit that.
Finally, none of us are devs. We can speculate and theorize as much as we want and the best we can do is work out what we want to homebrew for our own games or discuss ideas for the sake of enjoying people's company. Our voices don't really matter either.
Go spam the creators if you want those changes. Tell them why they're so wrong and why your idea is awesome. You're not going to have much impact here...
I might be missing something, but I think the wording on War Magic does prevent spamming EB with an Eldritch Knight. At least in an way that any other class couldn't do it as well.
"When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of the attacks with a casting of one of your Wizard cantrips that has a casting time of an action."
The first part I believe would allow the spamming (up to 3 casts), but at the end it does say it has to be one of your Wizard cantrips which shuts out the possibility. Magic Initiate leaves the cantrips gained as cantrips for the class you chose to pull from, I believe, so no War Magic there if that is the case. Even multi-classing wouldn't help because they wouldn't be Wizard cantrips. And you can't Action Surge for just two casts of EB since Action Surge specifically excludes the Magic action.
Right! You're totally on to something here. It's definitely the case that Eldritch Knight is obligated to use Wizard spells in their (Improved) War Magic feature. Good catch!
However, the Eldritch Knight isn't taking the Magic action. They're taking the Attack action, and due to their features are able to substitute one attack for a cantrip, and two attacks for a spell (which may or may not be restricted to level 1 or 2). So, thankfully the Eldritch Knight isn't able to full-auto 20 Eldritch Blast blasts in one nova turn. Instead, they can cast two cantrips (maybe Ray of Frost to fully immobilise a target with 40 speed or less) on their first attack action (as well as attacking once with their weapon for their fourth attack), do that a second time through Action Surge. And THEN use Metamagic Adept (Quicken) plus Magic Initiate (Warlock) to throw a quad's worth of Eldritch Blast as a dessert. Maybe not as outrageous as the EB x5, but still quite a lot of boom!
Pew-pew-pew-pew! ... stab-stab.
The Magic action part was just me addressing the idea for cast EB, Action Surge cast EB, and Metamagic the bonus action cast. They can still absolutely dish out some crazy combos now, I agree.
I will say that it looks like we might be interpreting how many cantrips are usable per attack action unless I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying that in one Attack action they could cast Ray of Frost twice or was that meant across the two actions? I didn't see it as for every one attack you give up you get a cantrip cast, more on the Attack action you can only replace one with a cantrip. Maybe that's something WotC needs to clear up in the wording of the feature.
Now, I'm open to the possibility that I am misreading the Improved War Magic trait, on inferring things that aren't there, but here's my line of thought:
* Level 18 Eldritch Knight takes the attack action.
* Due to War Magic (7th level feature), they're allowed to substitute one of their 3 attacks (due to 11th level feature Two Extra Attacks) for a Wizard cantrip.
* Due to Improved War Magic, they're allowed to substitute two attacks for a Wizard spell. There's nothing here that says this feature in mutually exclusive with basic War Magic, and thus the Eldritch Knight can substitute all of their attacks to cast two spells, one cantrip and one other (which can also be a cantrip).
* If they Action surge, they can do this a second time since they're not taking the magic action.
* The core rule about casting multiple spells allows for any number of cantrips each turn.
This all hinges on the interpretation that you can use both War Magic AND Improved War Magic to divvy up your pool of attacks into different spells instead of, you know, attacks. But as it currently stands, it seems like you can.
Am I way off in how I read this?
Nope, I don't think you're off at all. I was the one misunderstanding what you had said, and I 100% agree with that line of thought.
It could really open up some fun turns if you can use both features. There weren't many changes to the EK that I was hoping for, but the change to War Magic and the spell school restriction being lifted the main two I felt were needed to make the subclass not compete with its own class.