So you want a caster that is like every other caster? Play a different caster class!
There are choices other than "keep the class exactly the way it is in the 2014 release - largely failed" and "give it the same spell progression as wizards and sorcerers."
I don't often agree with Yurei, but she's right here. Pact magic is bad, and recharging a whole one spell slot is not letting us cast our spells more often. If they are going to go this route, they need more invocations to let us cast useful spells more regularly. The half caster version of the warlock was WAY better than the 2014 version. I'm pretty sure that most of you who talk about how great pact magic is don't play it. Pact magic is interesting, but it's not good. There are other aspects of warlock that are fantastic, but at their core, they are held back by pact magic.
If they are going to keep pact magic it needs to be revamped, not recycled from 2014.
Pact magic is great, and people who don't like it should play something else. Removing what the majority of warlock players want for a small minority is a bad idea.
Pact magic is not great, even a little. It's what you're stuck with presently when you decide you want other good features such as invocations and eldritch blast. I highly doubt the majority of warlock players like when their groups don't want to take short rests because it doesn't make narrative sense. Or your DM doesn't let you take a short rest because it doesn't make narrative sense.
I suspect that the feedback submitted was by players who think that pact magic is unique and interesting (this is certainly true) but have never played it to understand the limitations that come with it.
I suspect people who claim to not like pact magic are people who just want to play wizards and wont leave actual warlock players alone.
You glanced the document and I want to make sure you understand some things before the survey drops and you vote without knowing.
Bear Wildheart does pick the two resistances each time it starts the Rage. Oh that looks like a fire monster choose fire.
Battle Master Relentless is no different than the thing Swords Bards have in 5e that lets them not expend Bardic Inspiration for Flourishes.
Extended Spell can save you a spell slot on recasting certain spells throughout your day.
Quicken Spell was never meant to let you cast two leveled spells and there are no attack bonus action cantrips.
Twinned Spell can actually allow you to upcast a spell before you even have spell slots of the upcast level and saves you that higher level slot which is more valuable when you do have it.
Subtle Spell is improved because long as the spell doesn’t consume the material components or they don’t have a gold cost it works. In 5e any material component ruins Subtle spell. Fireball has a material component but works with this version of Subtle Spell. It does not work with the 5e version.
Everyone has an idea of what they want Warlocks to be and your idea is just as good as the next even if I don’t agree with it.
Agonizing Blast is any cantrip you pick with a Warlock feature that gives you spells. In this case it’s Pact Magic or the invocation pact of the tome. So you couldn’t use magic initiate, but could use pact of the tone to do the same thing. But it only works on attack rolls and you get a +5 to damage for each attack roll. That’s why it’s so good on eldritch blast because it’s for each attack roll since they deal damage separately.
I don’t agree with the idea of folding wizard and sorcerer together, but again you are free to have this view.
So you want a caster that is like every other caster? Play a different caster class!
There are choices other than "keep the class exactly the way it is in the 2014 release - largely failed" and "give it the same spell progression as wizards and sorcerers."
I don't often agree with Yurei, but she's right here. Pact magic is bad, and recharging a whole one spell slot is not letting us cast our spells more often. If they are going to go this route, they need more invocations to let us cast useful spells more regularly. The half caster version of the warlock was WAY better than the 2014 version. I'm pretty sure that most of you who talk about how great pact magic is don't play it. Pact magic is interesting, but it's not good. There are other aspects of warlock that are fantastic, but at their core, they are held back by pact magic.
If they are going to keep pact magic it needs to be revamped, not recycled from 2014.
Pact magic is great, and people who don't like it should play something else. Removing what the majority of warlock players want for a small minority is a bad idea.
Pact magic is not great, even a little. It's what you're stuck with presently when you decide you want other good features such as invocations and eldritch blast. I highly doubt the majority of warlock players like when their groups don't want to take short rests because it doesn't make narrative sense. Or your DM doesn't let you take a short rest because it doesn't make narrative sense.
I suspect that the feedback submitted was by players who think that pact magic is unique and interesting (this is certainly true) but have never played it to understand the limitations that come with it.
I suspect people who claim to not like pact magic are people who just want to play wizards and wont leave actual warlock players alone.
No it’s more people who want the full casting of Wizards combined with the fun customization of Warlock invocations and power of eldritch blast. Or Hexblades that want to be half casters
My personal fix is still 1/3 Spellcasting starting at 1st level with Pact Magic starting at 2nd level. Maybe limiting how many times you can short rest recharge pact slots to proficiency bonus and going back to only 8 invocations to account for the increase in casting power from having low level spell slots to work with.
So you want a caster that is like every other caster? Play a different caster class!
There are choices other than "keep the class exactly the way it is in the 2014 release - largely failed" and "give it the same spell progression as wizards and sorcerers."
I don't often agree with Yurei, but she's right here. Pact magic is bad, and recharging a whole one spell slot is not letting us cast our spells more often. If they are going to go this route, they need more invocations to let us cast useful spells more regularly. The half caster version of the warlock was WAY better than the 2014 version. I'm pretty sure that most of you who talk about how great pact magic is don't play it. Pact magic is interesting, but it's not good. There are other aspects of warlock that are fantastic, but at their core, they are held back by pact magic.
If they are going to keep pact magic it needs to be revamped, not recycled from 2014.
Pact magic is great, and people who don't like it should play something else. Removing what the majority of warlock players want for a small minority is a bad idea.
Pact magic is not great, even a little. It's what you're stuck with presently when you decide you want other good features such as invocations and eldritch blast. I highly doubt the majority of warlock players like when their groups don't want to take short rests because it doesn't make narrative sense. Or your DM doesn't let you take a short rest because it doesn't make narrative sense.
I suspect that the feedback submitted was by players who think that pact magic is unique and interesting (this is certainly true) but have never played it to understand the limitations that come with it.
I suspect people who claim to not like pact magic are people who just want to play wizards and wont leave actual warlock players alone.
No it’s more people who want the full casting of Wizards combined with the fun customization of Warlock invocations and power of eldritch blast. Or Hexblades that want to be half casters
My personal fix is still 1/3 Spellcasting starting at 1st level with Pact Magic starting at 2nd level. Maybe limiting how many times you can short rest recharge pact slots to proficiency bonus and going back to only 8 invocations to account for the increase in casting power from having low level spell slots to work with.
So you want your class plus the best class, and no compromise .. *sigh*
So you want a caster that is like every other caster? Play a different caster class!
There are choices other than "keep the class exactly the way it is in the 2014 release - largely failed" and "give it the same spell progression as wizards and sorcerers."
I don't often agree with Yurei, but she's right here. Pact magic is bad, and recharging a whole one spell slot is not letting us cast our spells more often. If they are going to go this route, they need more invocations to let us cast useful spells more regularly. The half caster version of the warlock was WAY better than the 2014 version. I'm pretty sure that most of you who talk about how great pact magic is don't play it. Pact magic is interesting, but it's not good. There are other aspects of warlock that are fantastic, but at their core, they are held back by pact magic.
If they are going to keep pact magic it needs to be revamped, not recycled from 2014.
Pact magic is great, and people who don't like it should play something else. Removing what the majority of warlock players want for a small minority is a bad idea.
Pact magic is not great, even a little. It's what you're stuck with presently when you decide you want other good features such as invocations and eldritch blast. I highly doubt the majority of warlock players like when their groups don't want to take short rests because it doesn't make narrative sense. Or your DM doesn't let you take a short rest because it doesn't make narrative sense.
I suspect that the feedback submitted was by players who think that pact magic is unique and interesting (this is certainly true) but have never played it to understand the limitations that come with it.
I suspect people who claim to not like pact magic are people who just want to play wizards and wont leave actual warlock players alone.
No it’s more people who want the full casting of Wizards combined with the fun customization of Warlock invocations and power of eldritch blast. Or Hexblades that want to be half casters
My personal fix is still 1/3 Spellcasting starting at 1st level with Pact Magic starting at 2nd level. Maybe limiting how many times you can short rest recharge pact slots to proficiency bonus and going back to only 8 invocations to account for the increase in casting power from having low level spell slots to work with.
So you want your class plus the best class, and no compromise .. *sigh*
I’m pretty sure I dropped the 2 invocations this UA added, limited the amount of short rest recharges per day, and 1/3 Spellcasting is what eldritch knights use. It’s literally just a way to give warlocks lower level spellslots but allow them to still keep pact magic. WotC decided that it wouldn’t hurt to give Warlocks 10 invocations and a 1 min recharge of half their spell slots. So technically they attempted to improved it without compromising anything. I actually did compromise in my improvements. The people who want no compromise are the ones who want invocations and full Spellcasting which JC is never going to happen.
I suspect people who claim to not like pact magic are people who just want to play wizards and wont leave actual warlock players alone.
No, people who dislike pact magic are people who want to play spellcasters who have sworn away their souls/what have you for unimaginable eldritch power - not the ability to cast 2 spells per fight and then have no other options but Eldritch Blast. Nothing says "otherworldly power fantasy" quite like having to cast the same cantrip 6 turns in a row. We want our spellcaster character to be able to, you know, spellcast. What an ask.
I suspect people who claim to not like pact magic are people who just want to play wizards and wont leave actual warlock players alone.
No, people who dislike pact magic are people who want to play spellcasters who have sworn away their souls/what have you for unimaginable eldritch power - not the ability to cast 2 spells per fight and then have no other options but Eldritch Blast. Nothing says "otherworldly power fantasy" quite like having to cast the same cantrip 6 turns in a row. We want our spellcaster character to be able to, you know, spellcast. What an ask.
Then play a full spellcaster. Warlocks are not and have never been full spellcasters. I was shocked that they were casters at all in 5e, but ran with it. I’m actually okay with people wanting a little more spell casting out of Warlock, but they way you worded your reply probably puts you in the group of people who should be playing another class. Arcane Cleric, Any Wizard, and Shadow Sorcerer would all fit the vibe of your fantasy.
I suspect people who claim to not like pact magic are people who just want to play wizards and wont leave actual warlock players alone.
No, people who dislike pact magic are people who want to play spellcasters who have sworn away their souls/what have you for unimaginable eldritch power - not the ability to cast 2 spells per fight and then have no other options but Eldritch Blast. Nothing says "otherworldly power fantasy" quite like having to cast the same cantrip 6 turns in a row. We want our spellcaster character to be able to, you know, spellcast. What an ask.
Then play a full spellcaster. Warlocks are not and have never been full spellcasters. I was shocked that they were casters at all in 5e, but ran with it. I’m actually okay with people wanting a little more spell casting out of Warlock, but they way you worded your reply probably puts you in the group of people who should be playing another class. Arcane Cleric, Any Wizard, and Shadow Sorcerer would all fit the vibe of your fantasy.
And what sort of spellcaster is a Warlock supposed to be? By 4th Level even 1/3 spellcasters have more spell slots than a Warlock does. Warlocks don't need to be made into full casters, but the class needs to go beyond "spam Eldritch Blast" (or play Hexblade) to be engaging. The fantasy behind Warlock is incredibly interesting and unique, and completely uncapitalized on by its mechanics.
No, people who dislike pact magic are people who want to play spellcasters who have sworn away their souls/what have you for unimaginable eldritch power
Easy fix: introduce pact sorcerers. Or a pact feat. If what you care about is the RP of the pact, there's no reason it has to be tied to the mechanics of the warlock.
No, people who dislike pact magic are people who want to play spellcasters who have sworn away their souls/what have you for unimaginable eldritch power
Easy fix: introduce pact sorcerers. Or a pact feat. If what you care about is the RP of the pact, there's no reason it has to be tied to the mechanics of the warlock.
The issue is the mechanics of the Warlock don't match the class's fantasy. I can understand if people like Pact Magic, but what I can't wrap my head around is those players looking at the rest of us who want to like Warlock and just can't with it the way it is and saying "no, you can't have a different version of the Warlock. We have our version that we like and it's not going anywhere, but you can't get to join the fun because we like the class the way it is and any changes to it are high heresy and you should just play a different system or reskin something else to fit the power fantasy the Warlock is meant to fulfill (even though that's a backhanded admission that the class doesn't work) because God forbid somebody have fun in a different way than I do."
Over the years I've played some half a dozen Warlocks, and regardless of build the same issue always presents itself: for roleplay situations, the class works fantastically, but as soon as combat starts the game becomes "look how much cooler the other spellcasters are - and they didn't even have to sell their souls!" The half-caster version a few UAs ago was certainly a far cry from perfect (nerfing spell progression is, again, a huge slap in the face to the idea of selling your soul for ungodly power), but it was a lot more fun than the PHB version because being able to cast different spells on each of your turns is more fun than making a recording of yourself saying "I cast Eldritch Blast" and playing it back each time your turn begins.
Again, if you like Pact Magic, you already have it and nobody is taking it away from you. WotC isn't going around confiscating the old 2014 PHB from your bookshelf when OneD&D releases, so the idea that it HAS to be in the new version strikes me as very gatekeepy. Why is it so hard to let other people get a version of the class that they like to play too?
I suspect people who claim to not like pact magic are people who just want to play wizards and wont leave actual warlock players alone.
No, people who dislike pact magic are people who want to play spellcasters who have sworn away their souls/what have you for unimaginable eldritch power - not the ability to cast 2 spells per fight and then have no other options but Eldritch Blast. Nothing says "otherworldly power fantasy" quite like having to cast the same cantrip 6 turns in a row. We want our spellcaster character to be able to, you know, spellcast. What an ask.
Then play a full spellcaster. Warlocks are not and have never been full spellcasters. I was shocked that they were casters at all in 5e, but ran with it. I’m actually okay with people wanting a little more spell casting out of Warlock, but they way you worded your reply probably puts you in the group of people who should be playing another class. Arcane Cleric, Any Wizard, and Shadow Sorcerer would all fit the vibe of your fantasy.
And what sort of spellcaster is a Warlock supposed to be? By 4th Level even 1/3 spellcasters have more spell slots than a Warlock does. Warlocks don't need to be made into full casters, but the class needs to go beyond "spam Eldritch Blast" (or play Hexblade) to be engaging. The fantasy behind Warlock is incredibly interesting and unique, and completely uncapitalized on by its mechanics.
Warlocks as a full caster is a sorcerer subclass. Why? Because they can’t have invocations, mystic arcanum is gone, and Eldritch blast is getting nerfed to a d8.
No, people who dislike pact magic are people who want to play spellcasters who have sworn away their souls/what have you for unimaginable eldritch power
Easy fix: introduce pact sorcerers. Or a pact feat. If what you care about is the RP of the pact, there's no reason it has to be tied to the mechanics of the warlock.
The issue is the mechanics of the Warlock don't match the class's fantasy. I can understand if people like Pact Magic, but what I can't wrap my head around is those players looking at the rest of us who want to like Warlock and just can't with it the way it is and saying "no, you can't have a different version of the Warlock. We have our version that we like and it's not going anywhere, but you can't get to join the fun because we like the class the way it is and any changes to it are high heresy and you should just play a different system or reskin something else to fit the power fantasy the Warlock is meant to fulfill (even though that's a backhanded admission that the class doesn't work) because God forbid somebody have fun in a different way than I do."
Over the years I've played some half a dozen Warlocks, and regardless of build the same issue always presents itself: for roleplay situations, the class works fantastically, but as soon as combat starts the game becomes "look how much cooler the other spellcasters are - and they didn't even have to sell their souls!" The half-caster version a few UAs ago was certainly a far cry from perfect (nerfing spell progression is, again, a huge slap in the face to the idea of selling your soul for ungodly power), but it was a lot more fun than the PHB version because being able to cast different spells on each of your turns is more fun than making a recording of yourself saying "I cast Eldritch Blast" and playing it back each time your turn begins.
Again, if you like Pact Magic, you already have it and nobody is taking it away from you. WotC isn't going around confiscating the old 2014 PHB from your bookshelf when OneD&D releases, so the idea that it HAS to be in the new version strikes me as very gatekeepy. Why is it so hard to let other people get a version of the class that they like to play too?
I now understand that you are a new player. The Warlock has never been a full caster. Before 5e it wasn’t even a caster at all.
No, people who dislike pact magic are people who want to play spellcasters who have sworn away their souls/what have you for unimaginable eldritch power
Easy fix: introduce pact sorcerers. Or a pact feat. If what you care about is the RP of the pact, there's no reason it has to be tied to the mechanics of the warlock.
The issue is the mechanics of the Warlock don't match the class's fantasy. I can understand if people like Pact Magic, but what I can't wrap my head around is those players looking at the rest of us who want to like Warlock and just can't with it the way it is and saying "no, you can't have a different version of the Warlock. We have our version that we like and it's not going anywhere, but you can't get to join the fun because we like the class the way it is and any changes to it are high heresy and you should just play a different system or reskin something else to fit the power fantasy the Warlock is meant to fulfill (even though that's a backhanded admission that the class doesn't work) because God forbid somebody have fun in a different way than I do."
Over the years I've played some half a dozen Warlocks, and regardless of build the same issue always presents itself: for roleplay situations, the class works fantastically, but as soon as combat starts the game becomes "look how much cooler the other spellcasters are - and they didn't even have to sell their souls!" The half-caster version a few UAs ago was certainly a far cry from perfect (nerfing spell progression is, again, a huge slap in the face to the idea of selling your soul for ungodly power), but it was a lot more fun than the PHB version because being able to cast different spells on each of your turns is more fun than making a recording of yourself saying "I cast Eldritch Blast" and playing it back each time your turn begins.
Again, if you like Pact Magic, you already have it and nobody is taking it away from you. WotC isn't going around confiscating the old 2014 PHB from your bookshelf when OneD&D releases, so the idea that it HAS to be in the new version strikes me as very gatekeepy. Why is it so hard to let other people get a version of the class that they like to play too?
I now understand that you are a new player. The Warlock has never been a full caster. Before 5e it wasn’t even a caster at all.
And I now understand that trying to debate this is on these forums is futile because at no point did I say that Warlocks should be a full caster, just that they should have more options in combat than cantrip spam. I have repeatedly stated that 2014 Warlock is not fun, and that WotC has data to show that I am not alone in that opinion, and all I get back is "Warlock isn't a full caster."
If nobody's going to address or acknowledge the flaws in the 2014 Warlock's design, this conversation is just going to go in tedious circles.
No, people who dislike pact magic are people who want to play spellcasters who have sworn away their souls/what have you for unimaginable eldritch power
Easy fix: introduce pact sorcerers. Or a pact feat. If what you care about is the RP of the pact, there's no reason it has to be tied to the mechanics of the warlock.
The issue is the mechanics of the Warlock don't match the class's fantasy. I can understand if people like Pact Magic, but what I can't wrap my head around is those players looking at the rest of us who want to like Warlock and just can't with it the way it is and saying "no, you can't have a different version of the Warlock. We have our version that we like and it's not going anywhere, but you can't get to join the fun because we like the class the way it is and any changes to it are high heresy and you should just play a different system or reskin something else to fit the power fantasy the Warlock is meant to fulfill (even though that's a backhanded admission that the class doesn't work) because God forbid somebody have fun in a different way than I do."
Over the years I've played some half a dozen Warlocks, and regardless of build the same issue always presents itself: for roleplay situations, the class works fantastically, but as soon as combat starts the game becomes "look how much cooler the other spellcasters are - and they didn't even have to sell their souls!" The half-caster version a few UAs ago was certainly a far cry from perfect (nerfing spell progression is, again, a huge slap in the face to the idea of selling your soul for ungodly power), but it was a lot more fun than the PHB version because being able to cast different spells on each of your turns is more fun than making a recording of yourself saying "I cast Eldritch Blast" and playing it back each time your turn begins.
Again, if you like Pact Magic, you already have it and nobody is taking it away from you. WotC isn't going around confiscating the old 2014 PHB from your bookshelf when OneD&D releases, so the idea that it HAS to be in the new version strikes me as very gatekeepy. Why is it so hard to let other people get a version of the class that they like to play too?
I now understand that you are a new player. The Warlock has never been a full caster. Before 5e it wasn’t even a caster at all.
And I now understand that trying to debate this is on these forums is futile because at no point did I say that Warlocks should be a full caster, just that they should have more options in combat than cantrip spam. I have repeatedly stated that 2014 Warlock is not fun, and that WotC has data to show that I am not alone in that opinion, and all I get back is "Warlock isn't a full caster."
If nobody's going to address or acknowledge the flaws in the 2014 Warlock's design, this conversation is just going to go in tedious circles.
If actually read the forums you would know I’m in support of giving warlocks more low level Spellcasting which I said in my first comment to you. Having more spell slots does not mean more fun. There are 4 kinds of casters this game supports without drastic overhaul. 1/3 casters, half casters, full casters, and pact magic. Half caster Warlock died because too much of the community hates it. They definitely aren’t going to be okay with 1/3 caster. I suggested a combination of both 1/3 caster plus pact magic. You have only 8 invocation you don’t get the third pact magic slot until 17th and you give up the 4th pact slot. My system is wishful thinking. So let’s honestly throw it out. So you don’t like pact magic, many of us do. I choose pact magic over half caster. Half Caster has already been tried and voted to death. Now with pact magic, 1/3 caster and full caster being the only other options for Warlock which are you choosing?
You glanced the document and I want to make sure you understand so things before the survey drops and you vote without knowing.
Bear Wildheart does pick the two resistances each time it starts the Rage. Oh that looks like a fire monster choose fire.
Battle Master Relentless is no different than the thing Swords Bards have in 5e that lets them not expend Bardic Inspiration for Flourishes.
Extended Spell can save you a spell slot on recasting certain spells throughout your day.
Quicken Spell was never meant to let you cast two leveled spells and there are no attack bonus action cantrips.
Twinned Spell can actually allow you to upcast a spell before you even have spell slots of the upcast level and saves you that higher level slot which is more valuable when you do have it.
Subtle Spell is improved because long as the spell doesn’t consume the material components or they don’t have a gold cost it works. In 5e any material component ruins Subtle spell. Fireball has a material component but works with this version of Subtle Spell. It does not work with the 5e version.
Everyone has an idea of what they want Warlocks to be and your idea is just as good as the next even if I don’t agree with it.
Agonizing Blast is any cantrip you pick with a Warlock feature that gives you spells. In this case it’s Pact Magic or the invocation pact of the tome. So you couldn’t use magic initiate, but could use pact of the tone to do the same thing. But it only works on attack rolls and you get a +5 to damage for each attack roll. That’s why it’s so good on eldritch blast because it’s for each attack roll since they deal damage separately.
I don’t agree with the idea of folding wizard and sorcerer ther, but again you are free to have this view.
Hope this helps.
thank you for the info. you were right on the Barb Bear resistance. I stand by my suggestion since it is only two we should get to select from the full list.
you were also right about Agonizing Blast. The shame is it is underwhelming for any cantrip other than eldritch blast.
You glanced the document and I want to make sure you understand so things before the survey drops and you vote without knowing.
Bear Wildheart does pick the two resistances each time it starts the Rage. Oh that looks like a fire monster choose fire.
Battle Master Relentless is no different than the thing Swords Bards have in 5e that lets them not expend Bardic Inspiration for Flourishes.
Extended Spell can save you a spell slot on recasting certain spells throughout your day.
Quicken Spell was never meant to let you cast two leveled spells and there are no attack bonus action cantrips.
Twinned Spell can actually allow you to upcast a spell before you even have spell slots of the upcast level and saves you that higher level slot which is more valuable when you do have it.
Subtle Spell is improved because long as the spell doesn’t consume the material components or they don’t have a gold cost it works. In 5e any material component ruins Subtle spell. Fireball has a material component but works with this version of Subtle Spell. It does not work with the 5e version.
Everyone has an idea of what they want Warlocks to be and your idea is just as good as the next even if I don’t agree with it.
Agonizing Blast is any cantrip you pick with a Warlock feature that gives you spells. In this case it’s Pact Magic or the invocation pact of the tome. So you couldn’t use magic initiate, but could use pact of the tone to do the same thing. But it only works on attack rolls and you get a +5 to damage for each attack roll. That’s why it’s so good on eldritch blast because it’s for each attack roll since they deal damage separately.
I don’t agree with the idea of folding wizard and sorcerer ther, but again you are free to have this view.
Hope this helps.
thank you for the info. you were right on the Barb Bear resistance. I stand by my suggestion since it is only two we should get to select from the full list.
you were also right about Agonizing Blast. The shame is it is underwhelming for any cantrip other than eldritch blast.
I don’t think almost anything will have flat force resistance in 5eR. I believe they are trying to ditch the magical weapons things and replace it with just force. I’m betting a bunch of weapons deal force damage in 5eR. +1 longsword will probably let you choose to deal slashing or force damage. Monsters will barely deal force damage. This is just a hypothesis. So praise me if it turns out to be true, forgive me if it’s wrong.
Agonizing blast is almost pointless on any other cantrip. The only exception is firebolt or sacred flame on a Celestial pact at lvl 6 up. It would give you a 1d10+10 firebolt or a 1d8+10 sacred flame if your Cha is 20, but it’s probably only 18 so they would be +8, which is good on a cantrip damage. It keeps up with Eldritch blast until lvl 11 when you fire 3 blast.
Just got out of my first session of playing new warlock. I cast misty step once, used one with shadows to cast invisibility 3 times. Got in 2 fights, and cast levitate with an invocation to get where i wanted. I cast more spells in that session than every one of the other casters combined and I only spent spent one of my spell slots. At one point I cast guidance and the players asked "doesn't that break invisibility" to which I replied "well yes, but no big I will just cast it again in a bit" To which they responded "Well we don't want you to waste all your spell slots" to which my response was "no worries it doesn't take a slot I can do this as many times as I want as long as I am in dim light or darkness, and since we are underground and going deeper that is pretty easy". They responded "THAT's Awesome, ya hit me with guidance." I got an epic moment without even spending a spell slot.
Just got out of my first session of playing new warlock. I cast misty step once, used one with shadows to cast invisibility 3 times. Got in 2 fights, and cast levitate with an invocation to get where i wanted. I cast more spells in that session than every one of the other casters combined and I haven't even spent one of my spell slots yet. At one point I cast guidance and the players asked "doesn't that break invisibility" to which I replied "well yes, but no big I will just cast it again in a bit" To which they responded "Well we don't want you to waste all your spell slots" to which my response was "no worries it doesn't take a slot I can do this as many times as I want as long as I am in dim light or darkness, and since we are underground and going deeper that is pretty easy". They responded "THAT's Awesome, ya hit me with guidance." I got an epic moment without even spending a spell slot.
Which spells did you cast in the 2 fights other than the Levitate?
Combat is where the majority of the complaints about Pact Magic tend to come from.
Misty step, EB, and Shatter, we were in this steam punk world engine underground area so there were a lot of mechs. the first fight was light enough that no one cast any spells besides cantrips and weapons. The second fight was a bit bigger and I used shatter because in-organics. I also forgot to mention I also used unseen servant as a ritual spell to scout out traps. Still all combat probably lasted 5 rounds total. So it was fairly light. Waiting for the bigger fights to spend more slots.
And most of the complaints I have heard is about getting lower level slots for "utility" casting. Which, ya, rocked it. Also had advantage on the first turn of every fight because of invisibility.
Combat casting seems like an odd complaint, Cast a powerful Concentration spell and then EB for most of it is usually the warlock play style.
Misty step, EB, and Shatter, we were in this steam punk world engine underground area so there were a lot of mechs. the first fight was light enough that no one cast any spells besides cantrips and weapons. The second fight was a bit bigger and I used shatter because in-organics. I also forgot to mention I also used unseen servant as a ritual spell to scout out traps.
And most of the complaints I have heard is about getting lower level slots for "utility" casting. Which, ya rocked it. Also had advantage on the first turn of every fight because of invisibility.
Combat casting seems like an odd complaint, Cast a powerful Concentration spell and then EB for most of it is usually the warlock play style.
How did you cast Misty Step and Shatter without using any slots? Misty Step you can get from a feat, but Shatter?
Also it's not an odd complaint when you consider that some people consider the warlock play style (as you call it) more or less repetitive.
I used one slot, and i played fey lock. There were 2 fights, used 1 slot, have a first level slot left (from tome), and a 4th level slot left. Also have 3 more casts of misty step left.
Not all classes are for all people. I find Barbarian very boring with just rage and bash, but some people like that. i like the out of combat at will utility and in combat one big spell to turn the tide while doing solid round to round damage is what I like about warlock.
Edit: Realized the confusion came from my forgetting the shatter cast in the original post and forgetting I had spent a slot.
I suspect people who claim to not like pact magic are people who just want to play wizards and wont leave actual warlock players alone.
You glanced the document and I want to make sure you understand some things before the survey drops and you vote without knowing.
Bear Wildheart does pick the two resistances each time it starts the Rage. Oh that looks like a fire monster choose fire.
Battle Master Relentless is no different than the thing Swords Bards have in 5e that lets them not expend Bardic Inspiration for Flourishes.
Extended Spell can save you a spell slot on recasting certain spells throughout your day.
Quicken Spell was never meant to let you cast two leveled spells and there are no attack bonus action cantrips.
Twinned Spell can actually allow you to upcast a spell before you even have spell slots of the upcast level and saves you that higher level slot which is more valuable when you do have it.
Subtle Spell is improved because long as the spell doesn’t consume the material components or they don’t have a gold cost it works. In 5e any material component ruins Subtle spell. Fireball has a material component but works with this version of Subtle Spell. It does not work with the 5e version.
Everyone has an idea of what they want Warlocks to be and your idea is just as good as the next even if I don’t agree with it.
Agonizing Blast is any cantrip you pick with a Warlock feature that gives you spells. In this case it’s Pact Magic or the invocation pact of the tome. So you couldn’t use magic initiate, but could use pact of the tone to do the same thing. But it only works on attack rolls and you get a +5 to damage for each attack roll. That’s why it’s so good on eldritch blast because it’s for each attack roll since they deal damage separately.
I don’t agree with the idea of folding wizard and sorcerer together, but again you are free to have this view.
Hope this helps.
No it’s more people who want the full casting of Wizards combined with the fun customization of Warlock invocations and power of eldritch blast. Or Hexblades that want to be half casters
My personal fix is still 1/3 Spellcasting starting at 1st level with Pact Magic starting at 2nd level. Maybe limiting how many times you can short rest recharge pact slots to proficiency bonus and going back to only 8 invocations to account for the increase in casting power from having low level spell slots to work with.
So you want your class plus the best class, and no compromise .. *sigh*
I’m pretty sure I dropped the 2 invocations this UA added, limited the amount of short rest recharges per day, and 1/3 Spellcasting is what eldritch knights use. It’s literally just a way to give warlocks lower level spellslots but allow them to still keep pact magic. WotC decided that it wouldn’t hurt to give Warlocks 10 invocations and a 1 min recharge of half their spell slots. So technically they attempted to improved it without compromising anything. I actually did compromise in my improvements. The people who want no compromise are the ones who want invocations and full Spellcasting which JC is never going to happen.
No, people who dislike pact magic are people who want to play spellcasters who have sworn away their souls/what have you for unimaginable eldritch power - not the ability to cast 2 spells per fight and then have no other options but Eldritch Blast. Nothing says "otherworldly power fantasy" quite like having to cast the same cantrip 6 turns in a row. We want our spellcaster character to be able to, you know, spellcast. What an ask.
Then play a full spellcaster. Warlocks are not and have never been full spellcasters. I was shocked that they were casters at all in 5e, but ran with it. I’m actually okay with people wanting a little more spell casting out of Warlock, but they way you worded your reply probably puts you in the group of people who should be playing another class. Arcane Cleric, Any Wizard, and Shadow Sorcerer would all fit the vibe of your fantasy.
And what sort of spellcaster is a Warlock supposed to be? By 4th Level even 1/3 spellcasters have more spell slots than a Warlock does. Warlocks don't need to be made into full casters, but the class needs to go beyond "spam Eldritch Blast" (or play Hexblade) to be engaging. The fantasy behind Warlock is incredibly interesting and unique, and completely uncapitalized on by its mechanics.
Easy fix: introduce pact sorcerers. Or a pact feat. If what you care about is the RP of the pact, there's no reason it has to be tied to the mechanics of the warlock.
The issue is the mechanics of the Warlock don't match the class's fantasy. I can understand if people like Pact Magic, but what I can't wrap my head around is those players looking at the rest of us who want to like Warlock and just can't with it the way it is and saying "no, you can't have a different version of the Warlock. We have our version that we like and it's not going anywhere, but you can't get to join the fun because we like the class the way it is and any changes to it are high heresy and you should just play a different system or reskin something else to fit the power fantasy the Warlock is meant to fulfill (even though that's a backhanded admission that the class doesn't work) because God forbid somebody have fun in a different way than I do."
Over the years I've played some half a dozen Warlocks, and regardless of build the same issue always presents itself: for roleplay situations, the class works fantastically, but as soon as combat starts the game becomes "look how much cooler the other spellcasters are - and they didn't even have to sell their souls!" The half-caster version a few UAs ago was certainly a far cry from perfect (nerfing spell progression is, again, a huge slap in the face to the idea of selling your soul for ungodly power), but it was a lot more fun than the PHB version because being able to cast different spells on each of your turns is more fun than making a recording of yourself saying "I cast Eldritch Blast" and playing it back each time your turn begins.
Again, if you like Pact Magic, you already have it and nobody is taking it away from you. WotC isn't going around confiscating the old 2014 PHB from your bookshelf when OneD&D releases, so the idea that it HAS to be in the new version strikes me as very gatekeepy. Why is it so hard to let other people get a version of the class that they like to play too?
Warlocks as a full caster is a sorcerer subclass. Why? Because they can’t have invocations, mystic arcanum is gone, and Eldritch blast is getting nerfed to a d8.
I now understand that you are a new player. The Warlock has never been a full caster. Before 5e it wasn’t even a caster at all.
And I now understand that trying to debate this is on these forums is futile because at no point did I say that Warlocks should be a full caster, just that they should have more options in combat than cantrip spam. I have repeatedly stated that 2014 Warlock is not fun, and that WotC has data to show that I am not alone in that opinion, and all I get back is "Warlock isn't a full caster."
If nobody's going to address or acknowledge the flaws in the 2014 Warlock's design, this conversation is just going to go in tedious circles.
If actually read the forums you would know I’m in support of giving warlocks more low level Spellcasting which I said in my first comment to you. Having more spell slots does not mean more fun. There are 4 kinds of casters this game supports without drastic overhaul. 1/3 casters, half casters, full casters, and pact magic. Half caster Warlock died because too much of the community hates it. They definitely aren’t going to be okay with 1/3 caster. I suggested a combination of both 1/3 caster plus pact magic. You have only 8 invocation you don’t get the third pact magic slot until 17th and you give up the 4th pact slot. My system is wishful thinking. So let’s honestly throw it out. So you don’t like pact magic, many of us do. I choose pact magic over half caster. Half Caster has already been tried and voted to death. Now with pact magic, 1/3 caster and full caster being the only other options for Warlock which are you choosing?
thank you for the info. you were right on the Barb Bear resistance. I stand by my suggestion since it is only two we should get to select from the full list.
you were also right about Agonizing Blast. The shame is it is underwhelming for any cantrip other than eldritch blast.
Then introduce a class that does. Really, if cantrip spam isn't your thing, the sorcerer makes an excellent "sold soul for ungodly power" character.
I don’t think almost anything will have flat force resistance in 5eR. I believe they are trying to ditch the magical weapons things and replace it with just force. I’m betting a bunch of weapons deal force damage in 5eR. +1 longsword will probably let you choose to deal slashing or force damage. Monsters will barely deal force damage. This is just a hypothesis. So praise me if it turns out to be true, forgive me if it’s wrong.
Agonizing blast is almost pointless on any other cantrip. The only exception is firebolt or sacred flame on a Celestial pact at lvl 6 up. It would give you a 1d10+10 firebolt or a 1d8+10 sacred flame if your Cha is 20, but it’s probably only 18 so they would be +8, which is good on a cantrip damage. It keeps up with Eldritch blast until lvl 11 when you fire 3 blast.
Just got out of my first session of playing new warlock. I cast misty step once, used one with shadows to cast invisibility 3 times. Got in 2 fights, and cast levitate with an invocation to get where i wanted. I cast more spells in that session than every one of the other casters combined and I only spent spent one of my spell slots. At one point I cast guidance and the players asked "doesn't that break invisibility" to which I replied "well yes, but no big I will just cast it again in a bit" To which they responded "Well we don't want you to waste all your spell slots" to which my response was "no worries it doesn't take a slot I can do this as many times as I want as long as I am in dim light or darkness, and since we are underground and going deeper that is pretty easy". They responded "THAT's Awesome, ya hit me with guidance." I got an epic moment without even spending a spell slot.
Misty step, EB, and Shatter, we were in this steam punk world engine underground area so there were a lot of mechs. the first fight was light enough that no one cast any spells besides cantrips and weapons. The second fight was a bit bigger and I used shatter because in-organics. I also forgot to mention I also used unseen servant as a ritual spell to scout out traps. Still all combat probably lasted 5 rounds total. So it was fairly light. Waiting for the bigger fights to spend more slots.
And most of the complaints I have heard is about getting lower level slots for "utility" casting. Which, ya, rocked it. Also had advantage on the first turn of every fight because of invisibility.
Combat casting seems like an odd complaint, Cast a powerful Concentration spell and then EB for most of it is usually the warlock play style.
I used one slot, and i played fey lock. There were 2 fights, used 1 slot, have a first level slot left (from tome), and a 4th level slot left. Also have 3 more casts of misty step left.
Not all classes are for all people. I find Barbarian very boring with just rage and bash, but some people like that. i like the out of combat at will utility and in combat one big spell to turn the tide while doing solid round to round damage is what I like about warlock.
Edit: Realized the confusion came from my forgetting the shatter cast in the original post and forgetting I had spent a slot.