The point of the Artificer creating items is that those items provide them with increased and customizable capabilities in place of the class features other classes would get.
Having a mechanic that pushes you to sacrifice these benefits in order to keep up with what other classes are consistently capable of is trash design. It's like if you forced the Paladin to shut down its auras to use their Divine Smite, or hamstrung the Ranger's versatility to focus only on DPR...oh.
So yeah, just the continuing trend that Crawford et al do not understand why players play the classes they play.
The point of the Artificer creating items is that those items provide them with increased and customizable capabilities in place of the class features other classes would get.
Having a mechanic that pushes you to sacrifice these benefits in order to keep up with what other classes are consistently capable of is trash design. It's like if you forced the Paladin to shut down its auras to use their Divine Smite, or hamstrung the Ranger's versatility to focus only on DPR...oh.
So yeah, just the continuing trend that Crawford et al do not understand why players play the classes they play.
Oh yes, because if I make a utility item with them, it's going to totally kill my combat performance if I trade it in. The point is letting you grab some extra slots in a pinch, and you can get back everything you spend on a long rest. This isn't some hideously unfair price, it's a basic tactical trade-off.
The 2024 UA is largely a nerf with very few benefits. The class is pretty awful and lackluster as a baseline and many of the changes only make it less competitive compared to other classes.
Features like consuming items to create spell slots don't mean much when many dms are stingy AF regarding items when the base books identified them as "optional"... providing a feature which is entirely dependent in the generosity of the DM is pretty trash.
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The slots you can get from consuming an item are only the items you get from your class feature - IE not DM discretion and renewable after a long rest. Where it's maybe kinda useful is that you can do this with items that have, for example, used up all their charges, or items that happen to be a poor guess for the day's adventure.
I don't like the changes particularly. I play a 2014 artificer who seems to be holding their own with other party members just fine fwiw.
The 2024 UA is largely a nerf with very few benefits. The class is pretty awful and lackluster as a baseline and many of the changes only make it less competitive compared to other classes.
Features like consuming items to create spell slots don't mean much when many dms are stingy AF regarding items when the base books identified them as "optional"... providing a feature which is entirely dependent in the generosity of the DM is pretty trash.
[...]
The slots you can get from consuming an item are only the items you get from your class feature - IE not DM discretion and renewable after a long rest. Where it's maybe kinda useful is that you can do this with items that have, for example, used up all their charges, or items that happen to be a poor guess for the day's adventure.
I don't like the changes particularly. I play a 2014 artificer who seems to be holding their own with other party members just fine fwiw.
This whole "consume items to use your other features" idea is something I really don't like (and said as much in my feedback).
I know its only consuming your own created items, which you can get back after a long rest. But still. Just to use one of your own class features - a relatively meagre ability to get back a level 1 or 2 spell slot - you are railroaded into sacrificing a presumably useful item that you or an ally may be using or using at least one of your 'item slots' for some item that may not necessarily be what you want, but which you can afford to lose for the rest of the day.
Honestly, the best use of Drain is the Spell Refueling Ring. Use the single use ring, then drain the ring. Two spell slots, in 2 actions.
I think giving the artificer the ability to drain attuned items would help. There are some common items that require attunement that could be produced for later draining.
What if the 7th level feature also included either adding Intelligence modifier to all proficient skill checks or adding Intelligence modifier to all savings throws? Players pick one at level 7, and can't switch until level 10. This would double down on the Artificer being flexible, either almost as good as a rogue with skills or almost as tanky as a paladin. Flash of Genius only works for others, similar to the bard's limitation on inspiration.
I'm going to give the Alchemist in my current game this option and see how it goes.
Honestly, the best use of Drain is the Spell Refueling Ring. Use the single use ring, then drain the ring. Two spell slots, in 2 actions.
Quite good for level 6.
At level 10 an Artificer could also add the Pearl of Power to the mix.
Turn 1. Bonus Action: Spell-Refueling Ring for an up to level 3 slot. Magic Action: Transmute the ring into a Pearl of Power.
Turn 2. Magic Action: Pearl of Power for another level 3 slot back. Bonus Action: Drain Magic Item on the Pearl to get an additional level 2 slot back.
That's 2 level 3 slots and a level 2 slot for a combined 8 levels of spell slots.
It would take up two of your plans known to do this which is a significant investment. But for the sake of comparison a Wizard's Arcane Recovery nets them up to 3 levels of spell slots at level 6 and 5 levels of spell slots at level 10. Wizards eventually pull ahead again at level 17 when they can recover a combined 9 levels of slots through Arcane Recovery, and of Course Wizards have more higher level spell slots, etc. But I just found it interesting that you can get more slots out of Magic Item Tinker than Arcane Recovery.
It is interesting, but you are sacrificing so much potency being only a half caster and then spending a painful percentage of your class features to barely exceed a single class feature of a full caster.
I hate the idea of blowing so much of what I chose being an artificer instead of a wizard for the sake of not being left behind too bad by the wizard at spellcasting. And you are STILL severly limited.
Why do you want to be a full spellcaster as an Artificer though? If you want to be an INT-based full caster, just play as a Wizard. Flavour is free, if you want to flavour your wizard spells as gadgets you can do so.
Artificer is about decking yourself out in magic items head to toe. Now we can argue about whether or not it delivers on that fantasy, but if you are comparing it to a full spellcaster and saying "this half caster about making and using magic items, isn't as good at casting spells as a class entirely dedicated to casting spells" you are bound to be disappointed. An orange will never make as good of an apple pie as an apple will.
Sigh. It's like I shouldn't bother acknowledging the faults of whatever I say in my posts because people won't recognize that I did and point out the faults themselves anyway.
It would take up two of your plans known to do this which is a significant investment. But for the sake of comparison a Wizard's Arcane Recovery nets them up to 3 levels of spell slots at level 6 and 5 levels of spell slots at level 10. Wizards eventually pull ahead again at level 17 when they can recover a combined 9 levels of slots through Arcane Recovery, and of Course Wizards have more higher level spell slots, etc. But I just found it interesting that you can get more slots out of Magic Item Tinker than Arcane Recovery.
It's not about trying to be a full caster. It's about leaning into your subclass's strengths. Alchemist and Artillerist are both subclasses that lean heavily into the spellcasting side of being an Artificer despite that Artificers have only Half Caster slots. Magic items and features that provide a means of recovering spell slots help these subclasses last longer in the adventuring day.
If you'd rather focus on different items for your Replicate Magic Item choices, do so! No one is holding a gun to your head. I happen to like that these are options the Artificer can choose to take.
Alchemists especially tend to be rather spell slot hungry, so a means to recover slots however undesirable to other Artificer subclasses, is welcome.
Beyond that the comparison I drew was just for fun and because I thought it was interesting.
Sigh. It's like I shouldn't bother acknowledging the faults of whatever I say in my posts because people won't recognize that I did and point out the faults themselves anyway.
It would take up two of your plans known to do this which is a significant investment. But for the sake of comparison a Wizard's Arcane Recovery nets them up to 3 levels of spell slots at level 6 and 5 levels of spell slots at level 10. Wizards eventually pull ahead again at level 17 when they can recover a combined 9 levels of slots through Arcane Recovery, and of Course Wizards have more higher level spell slots, etc. But I just found it interesting that you can get more slots out of Magic Item Tinker than Arcane Recovery.
It's not about trying to be a full caster. It's about leaning into your subclass's strengths. Alchemist and Artillerist are both subclasses that lean heavily into the spellcasting side of being an Artificer despite that Artificers have only Half Caster slots. Magic items and features that provide a means of recovering spell slots help these subclasses last longer in the adventuring day.
If you'd rather focus on different items for your Replicate Magic Item choices, do so! No one is holding a gun to your head. I happen to like that these are options the Artificer can choose to take.
Alchemists especially tend to be rather spell slot hungry, so a means to recover slots however undesirable to other Artificer subclasses, is welcome.
Beyond that the comparison I drew was just for fun and because I thought it was interesting.
My complaint is that the drain feature and refueling ring don't list spell levels, but spell slots. Until level 10, you are limited to one spell slot from the ring, and one spell slot from the item. Yes, that can mean 4 spell levels. It could also be 3 spell levels or even just 2 depending on what spells have been used.
Change the wording to spell levels on the drain feature, and the maximum power doesn't change, but it does become more flexible. Between levels 6 and 10, the minimum spell levels recovered could more consistently be 4.
The comparison to a full caster is largely because the strength of the class features is not in line with being a half caster, it is in line with being a full caster. So either they should be a full caster and not need much more work or they should get a bump to what they can do outside of spellcasting to bring them in line.
Personally I'd rather see them get slightly more active infusions and either MUCH higher or no limit to plans known so they CAN do what they were clearly going for with the artificer being able to bring the "right tool for the job" so to speak. Currently they have little to no day to day flexibility. AND they cannot equip their party at all without severely hobbling their own performance. Personally, if I were designing the class, I'd have something like 30% more active infusions that cannot be used by the artificer themselves. Ostensibly they would be handed out to party members but in the case of a solo artificer, it could be handed out to constructs or allies. I see this as the easiest way to get the artificer to the point where they can fulfill that fantasy without any other significant changes to the class.
The point of the Artificer creating items is that those items provide them with increased and customizable capabilities in place of the class features other classes would get.
Having a mechanic that pushes you to sacrifice these benefits in order to keep up with what other classes are consistently capable of is trash design. It's like if you forced the Paladin to shut down its auras to use their Divine Smite, or hamstrung the Ranger's versatility to focus only on DPR...oh.
So yeah, just the continuing trend that Crawford et al do not understand why players play the classes they play.
the items you replicate can be recreated each day, and certain items have limited uses, or you know you wont need later. Replicated items arent exactly supposed to represent your long term orecious items, but rather magical prototypes for ideas. That said there is no guarantee you can craft, so for some players they do treat it as like forever items, rather than what items do i need today.
Why do you want to be a full spellcaster as an Artificer though? If you want to be an INT-based full caster, just play as a Wizard. Flavour is free, if you want to flavour your wizard spells as gadgets you can do so.
Artificer is about decking yourself out in magic items head to toe. Now we can argue about whether or not it delivers on that fantasy, but if you are comparing it to a full spellcaster and saying "this half caster about making and using magic items, isn't as good at casting spells as a class entirely dedicated to casting spells" you are bound to be disappointed. An orange will never make as good of an apple pie as an apple will.
artificer isnt really about decking yourself in magic items, or rather, everyone is about that, it doesnt really describe a playstyle/flavor The subclasses define how you approach gameplay.
its about using magic items to become a customized type of soldier/warrior And as of now, 3 of these subclasses need to be a 'caster' type. essentially because they dont have martial prowess. Alchemist, Artillerist, and now cartographer, are doing healing/support caster, damage caster, and utility/awareness caster type of playstyle.
Some use items to become martials, others use items to become "casters" by caster it doesnt have to literally cast spells or have similar gameplay.
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The point of the Artificer creating items is that those items provide them with increased and customizable capabilities in place of the class features other classes would get.
Having a mechanic that pushes you to sacrifice these benefits in order to keep up with what other classes are consistently capable of is trash design. It's like if you forced the Paladin to shut down its auras to use their Divine Smite, or hamstrung the Ranger's versatility to focus only on DPR...oh.
So yeah, just the continuing trend that Crawford et al do not understand why players play the classes they play.
Oh yes, because if I make a utility item with them, it's going to totally kill my combat performance if I trade it in. The point is letting you grab some extra slots in a pinch, and you can get back everything you spend on a long rest. This isn't some hideously unfair price, it's a basic tactical trade-off.
The slots you can get from consuming an item are only the items you get from your class feature - IE not DM discretion and renewable after a long rest. Where it's maybe kinda useful is that you can do this with items that have, for example, used up all their charges, or items that happen to be a poor guess for the day's adventure.
I don't like the changes particularly. I play a 2014 artificer who seems to be holding their own with other party members just fine fwiw.
This whole "consume items to use your other features" idea is something I really don't like (and said as much in my feedback).
I know its only consuming your own created items, which you can get back after a long rest. But still. Just to use one of your own class features - a relatively meagre ability to get back a level 1 or 2 spell slot - you are railroaded into sacrificing a presumably useful item that you or an ally may be using or using at least one of your 'item slots' for some item that may not necessarily be what you want, but which you can afford to lose for the rest of the day.
Honestly, the best use of Drain is the Spell Refueling Ring. Use the single use ring, then drain the ring. Two spell slots, in 2 actions.
I think giving the artificer the ability to drain attuned items would help. There are some common items that require attunement that could be produced for later draining.
What if the 7th level feature also included either adding Intelligence modifier to all proficient skill checks or adding Intelligence modifier to all savings throws? Players pick one at level 7, and can't switch until level 10. This would double down on the Artificer being flexible, either almost as good as a rogue with skills or almost as tanky as a paladin. Flash of Genius only works for others, similar to the bard's limitation on inspiration.
I'm going to give the Alchemist in my current game this option and see how it goes.
Quite good for level 6.
At level 10 an Artificer could also add the Pearl of Power to the mix.
Turn 1.
Bonus Action: Spell-Refueling Ring for an up to level 3 slot.
Magic Action: Transmute the ring into a Pearl of Power.
Turn 2.
Magic Action: Pearl of Power for another level 3 slot back.
Bonus Action: Drain Magic Item on the Pearl to get an additional level 2 slot back.
That's 2 level 3 slots and a level 2 slot for a combined 8 levels of spell slots.
It would take up two of your plans known to do this which is a significant investment. But for the sake of comparison a Wizard's Arcane Recovery nets them up to 3 levels of spell slots at level 6 and 5 levels of spell slots at level 10. Wizards eventually pull ahead again at level 17 when they can recover a combined 9 levels of slots through Arcane Recovery, and of Course Wizards have more higher level spell slots, etc. But I just found it interesting that you can get more slots out of Magic Item Tinker than Arcane Recovery.
It is interesting, but you are sacrificing so much potency being only a half caster and then spending a painful percentage of your class features to barely exceed a single class feature of a full caster.
I hate the idea of blowing so much of what I chose being an artificer instead of a wizard for the sake of not being left behind too bad by the wizard at spellcasting. And you are STILL severly limited.
Why do you want to be a full spellcaster as an Artificer though? If you want to be an INT-based full caster, just play as a Wizard. Flavour is free, if you want to flavour your wizard spells as gadgets you can do so.
Artificer is about decking yourself out in magic items head to toe. Now we can argue about whether or not it delivers on that fantasy, but if you are comparing it to a full spellcaster and saying "this half caster about making and using magic items, isn't as good at casting spells as a class entirely dedicated to casting spells" you are bound to be disappointed. An orange will never make as good of an apple pie as an apple will.
Sigh. It's like I shouldn't bother acknowledging the faults of whatever I say in my posts because people won't recognize that I did and point out the faults themselves anyway.
It's not about trying to be a full caster. It's about leaning into your subclass's strengths. Alchemist and Artillerist are both subclasses that lean heavily into the spellcasting side of being an Artificer despite that Artificers have only Half Caster slots. Magic items and features that provide a means of recovering spell slots help these subclasses last longer in the adventuring day.
If you'd rather focus on different items for your Replicate Magic Item choices, do so! No one is holding a gun to your head. I happen to like that these are options the Artificer can choose to take.
Alchemists especially tend to be rather spell slot hungry, so a means to recover slots however undesirable to other Artificer subclasses, is welcome.
Beyond that the comparison I drew was just for fun and because I thought it was interesting.
My complaint is that the drain feature and refueling ring don't list spell levels, but spell slots. Until level 10, you are limited to one spell slot from the ring, and one spell slot from the item. Yes, that can mean 4 spell levels. It could also be 3 spell levels or even just 2 depending on what spells have been used.
Change the wording to spell levels on the drain feature, and the maximum power doesn't change, but it does become more flexible. Between levels 6 and 10, the minimum spell levels recovered could more consistently be 4.
The comparison to a full caster is largely because the strength of the class features is not in line with being a half caster, it is in line with being a full caster. So either they should be a full caster and not need much more work or they should get a bump to what they can do outside of spellcasting to bring them in line.
Personally I'd rather see them get slightly more active infusions and either MUCH higher or no limit to plans known so they CAN do what they were clearly going for with the artificer being able to bring the "right tool for the job" so to speak. Currently they have little to no day to day flexibility. AND they cannot equip their party at all without severely hobbling their own performance. Personally, if I were designing the class, I'd have something like 30% more active infusions that cannot be used by the artificer themselves. Ostensibly they would be handed out to party members but in the case of a solo artificer, it could be handed out to constructs or allies. I see this as the easiest way to get the artificer to the point where they can fulfill that fantasy without any other significant changes to the class.
the items you replicate can be recreated each day, and certain items have limited uses, or you know you wont need later. Replicated items arent exactly supposed to represent your long term orecious items, but rather magical prototypes for ideas. That said there is no guarantee you can craft, so for some players they do treat it as like forever items, rather than what items do i need today.
artificer isnt really about decking yourself in magic items, or rather, everyone is about that, it doesnt really describe a playstyle/flavor The subclasses define how you approach gameplay.
its about using magic items to become a customized type of soldier/warrior And as of now, 3 of these subclasses need to be a 'caster' type. essentially because they dont have martial prowess. Alchemist, Artillerist, and now cartographer, are doing healing/support caster, damage caster, and utility/awareness caster type of playstyle.
Some use items to become martials, others use items to become "casters" by caster it doesnt have to literally cast spells or have similar gameplay.