All the people who are saying the mystic class is OP are the same people who say bastion from overwatch is OP
the short answer for this is he's not and the short answer is the mystic is not
all you need to do is play a little time with it and get a broader view of it to see its strengths AND WEAKNESSES instead of just reading it and saying its OP.
because if we'd judge everything by just reading it in dnd then the fighter would be boring, the barbarian's rage would be pointless, multiclassing would be OP and rangers would be fun.
All the people who are saying the mystic class is OP are the same people who say bastion from overwatch is OP
To be fair, he was, until they patched him back down.
And I expect a tunedown for the Mystic in order to make it multiclass-compatible, and the wording gets nailed down, and some last-minute changes are written and playtested by their NDA squad prior to whatever published hardback they make it in.
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"To be fair, he was, until they patched him back down."
To be fair, he has always been fine just people were too incapable of thinking.
"I expect a tunedown for the Mystic in order to make it multiclass-compatible"
What, so people won't go to it for a quick dip, like for example fighter or the revised ranger, to get pretty OP stuff. I don't see that as a problem.
"the wording gets nailed down"
XD it's unearthed arcana mate you can't expect it to be printable quality.
"whatever published hardback they make it in"
Mate, this isn't going to be published anytime soon (within the next couple years). *evidence* nothing else in unearthed arcana has been published in an official form yet so don't you think that other stuff would get priority??? And for the love of god unearthed arcana is a preview and a "hi guys this is what are tinkering with check it out" kind of thing, not a "hi guys look at this sneak preview of this new class/thing that will be in your hands soon :D"
Mate, this isn't going to be published anytime soon (within the next couple years). *evidence* nothing else in unearthed arcana has been published in an official form yet so don't you think that other stuff would get priority???
Both the Rogue Archetype: Swashbuckler and Sorcerer Background: Storm was published in UA: Waterborne before appearing in the Sword Coast's Adventurer's Guide.
So, I'm hoping this isn't off topic, but how was the 3.5 Psion broken? We had several in our groups over the years and they were all basically wizards using the spell point system. The only potentially broken thing I ever saw was one took a feat that let him take a supernatural ability from one single form chosen when he picked the feat. He chose pixie and would be invisible while he was using metamorphosis in pixie form. Otherwise, they were, as I said before, basically spell point wizards.
On point, looking over the Mystic, it reminds me of the 2nd edition psionicist with some of the 3.5 abilities mixed in. I don't think it's overpowered...if anything, once they get a little higher level (10+), they kind of fall behind in power, but I feel their versatility balances this nicely. Sure, they can do more things in a combat than a wizard or sorcerer, but the things the wiz/sorc are doing are more powerful. Just my two cents.
Ok, so that's 2 out of what 34 UAs that have been officially published. So at this present time, there is no evidence to show that WotC will be releasing anything mystic related anytime soon.
Their are differences about the Mystic than all others that have appeared in Unearthed Arcana's, for one, this was the third Unearthed Arcana that they appeared in, that is two more than anything else that comes to mind. The first one went to level 5, the second one went to level 10, and the third went all the way to 20. This is clearly a work in progress, and it seems that it is getting close to what they are looking for.
Second, it is 28 pages long, longer than any other Unearthed Arcana they have ever published, and not by a small amount. The next biggest was 13 pages, and was about traps. So what was the third biggest Unearthed Arcana about? Psionics, and it was 10 pages long. The other psionics document published in Unearthed Arcana was 7 pages long. That is 45 pages about a single topic published across three Unearthed Arcana articles. Name one other thing they covered that even comes close, you can't because it doesn't exist.
Third, many of the players want this to happen, especially those that want to play in a world where the mystic is a major part of the world.
Seriously, why would they spend so much time working with and getting feedback on something like this if they didn't plan to add it to the game at some point?
This is all evidence that Wizards of the Coast want this to happen.
Swashbuckler and Storm fit well enough that they could be printed quickly in an official book. If, sometime between books like SCAG and EE, the 5e team decided that instead of publishing polishing and publishing UA content in small releases they wanted to publish a PHB 2, then it would make sense that you wouldn't see a lot of recent published content. Whether or not a PHB 2 is in the works, 5e embraces homebrew. You don't need official content for everything, or anything, to play the game.
Now, as far as the Mystic itself, I did like the way it read. I was initially under the impression you could only take disciplines from your archetype (other than Soul Knife). That would be a change I'd like to see, as that could open up the disciplines becoming more solid. A party full of mystics is pretty fun. I'm a big fan of Guild Wars, so if I were to run a game in that setting I might slightly modify the Mystic and make that the only available class. The class does need to be a little friendlier with the rest of the game, but its otherwise close to being publishable.
A few multicasting levels and this class made the Rogue/Assasin kill a dragon in two strikes.
The Mystic, like all UA material, is not tuned for multiclass play as of yet. Once they're happy with how the Mystic works as a standalone class, they'll tinker to make it multiclass-ready.
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A few multicasting levels and this class made the Rogue/Assasin kill a dragon in two strikes.
I can do multiclasses (AL legal) with better nova damage for less resources. Assassin probably will not get a surprise round against an old dragon.
Mantle of Command can be little better than I tought, if I ready my action to use Command to Strike in ally turn, he can get his extra attack with that attack action. This cost my action, reaction, his reaction, 3 psi point and maybe my concentration (don't know if ready discipline is the same as ready spell, probably is), but sometimes worth it.
Oh, dear lord, he did. Great luck on the player side and very bad luck in the dragon side. He got surprise and best Initiative.
I don't know how is in your table, but in my, you don't explore the entire lair of BBEG, that by the way has Int 18 and truesight and detect as legendary action, enter in his room and get him unguard. All this without he don't know that you entered and his lair and killed some mobs? We have really differents tables, my friend.
Well, in fact with Phasing Eye, Phantom Caravan and Victory Before Battle you may get him surprised, if the sensor stay away from his truesight. Still, there is many better multiclasses with assassin to make a bigger nova round.
I would be alright with them reigning in the mystic a little (fewer disciplines by endgame, things liek that) but overall I really want them to keep the structure and options of the class that they've produced, there's a shocking amount of people trying to insist that they have to gut it- either remove it's ability to do a lot of things, throw out the current psi point system entirely, divide it into multiple classes. I'm really hoping they don't decide to follow that particular feedback and iterate on the current design instead.
I have a player that considers psionics to be their preferred option in these games, and they actually really liked the current iteration- I loved it because it implemented all of the different psionic concepts from 4e, including the ardent! That was huge for me, and I really hope it isn't scrapped like a lot of people seem to want it to be.
I also noticed that a lot of people are having issues grokking the balance of the class, because it seems like veryone is ignoring the psi point cost to do the thigns it does- when people insist that it's a better rogue than a rogue, they spend almost a third of their daily alotment just on sneaking around, but don't realize it's impossible to sustain it across multiple rolls without neutering yourself- you're a nova class, as a mystic, that can nova at things other than damage.
Been playing a level 1 High Elf Mystic - order of the Wu Jen. I choose the discipline Mastery of Air, along with Mastery of Fire and Mastery of Water as the level 1 bonus disciplines. furthermore I chose Mind Thrust as my psionic talent. I rolled for the ability scores and got relatively high scores, 18 dex, 18 intelligence, 16 cons, 14 strength, 15 wis and 13 charisma. So from the get go a high powered character. ( the awesomeness of rollling amirite).
In terms of what i think needs changing in the class, for starters the option to use psi points on the discipline ability wind step to gain flying speed is quite broken. Especially the ability to use it as part of your move on your turn. I personally think that this should come into effect when the Mystic is 5th level. ( Use the psi limit mechanic to achieve this ) Furthermore, I believe it should be done as an action not as part of your movement, as i think that is just too broken personally. Keeping with the discipline of air, the psychic focus on Mastery of Air is totally awesome, but i think taking no falling damage is to over powered. In the home-brew our DM did, we were 60ft in the air at a wood elf community. My character simply jumped off the rope bridge down to the forest floor when we needed to leave whilst the others struggled down rope ladders.
Also, for the case of the psychic focus mechanic, i personally think that being able to change your psychic focus as a bonus action needs nerfing. Because you get to know three disciplines at level one this ability makes for some very strong play. For instance you could be focusing on elemental water to swim through a raging river, however once you reach the other side you are presented with a huge cliff with the path you are seeking at the bottom. You can then just change your pyschic focus to air and jump down. All the while fixing ropes ect to help the rest of the party across. in order to fix this i thought that changing your pychic focus should be done on short and long rests. With the flavor being your mystic must spend the hour mediating psionically to change his pychic focus.
Otherwise this class has just been awesome, I highly recommend playing the Mystic, just so inventive and different, whilst being a very capable combat class simultaneously.
What you're saying here is that the Mystic can do some call things out of combat because of his abilities. Like a wizard can warm his own dinner and send an unseen servant to do things for him.
I can see how you interpret that idea but it really isnt the case.
Taking no falling damage whilst focused on elemental air could be used to break games so easily. Also mid combat. Could be used to drop away from a close call in combat by jumping off the top of the tower said combat is taking place in for instance. At level one versatile abilities like that are just broken if your trying to play a relatively realistic game of dnd.
Also the psychic focus being able to be changed as a bonus action has definite mid combat uses. I.E. being able to change your focus from elemental water to elemental fire once youve swum across the river that was blocking your party from coming across, and roasting the enemy with extra fire damage from your psychic focus that you changed before your action as a bonus action before your turn. This is one of many examples i can think of concerning the bonus action ability for psychic focus.
Over all I'm very open to expanding the class options for players. My one concern is that I'm unsure, with the game text that has been provided so far, how they fit into a regular D&D universe. There is kind of a wizard, kind of a monk flavor to many of them, but instead you have crazy mind powers. Powers that are somehow outside the weave of magic? Can someone give me a good example of a high fantasy psychic/mystic style character? They seem like they would make a good villain class.
Powers that are somehow outside the weave of magic? Can someone give me a good example of a high fantasy psychic/mystic style character? They seem like they would make a good villain class.
The powers exist within the Weave. They're magic, just not spells.
Think of them as alternate sorcerers if that helps.
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let's relate this to something relatable.
All the people who are saying the mystic class is OP are the same people who say bastion from overwatch is OP
the short answer for this is he's not and the short answer is the mystic is not
all you need to do is play a little time with it and get a broader view of it to see its strengths AND WEAKNESSES instead of just reading it and saying its OP.
because if we'd judge everything by just reading it in dnd then the fighter would be boring, the barbarian's rage would be pointless, multiclassing would be OP and rangers would be fun.
And I expect a tunedown for the Mystic in order to make it multiclass-compatible, and the wording gets nailed down, and some last-minute changes are written and playtested by their NDA squad prior to whatever published hardback they make it in.
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To be fair, he has always been fine just people were too incapable of thinking.
What, so people won't go to it for a quick dip, like for example fighter or the revised ranger, to get pretty OP stuff. I don't see that as a problem.
XD it's unearthed arcana mate you can't expect it to be printable quality.
Mate, this isn't going to be published anytime soon (within the next couple years). *evidence* nothing else in unearthed arcana has been published in an official form yet so don't you think that other stuff would get priority??? And for the love of god unearthed arcana is a preview and a "hi guys this is what are tinkering with check it out" kind of thing, not a "hi guys look at this sneak preview of this new class/thing that will be in your hands soon :D"
Like???
Both the Rogue Archetype: Swashbuckler and Sorcerer Background: Storm was published in UA: Waterborne before appearing in the Sword Coast's Adventurer's Guide.
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So, I'm hoping this isn't off topic, but how was the 3.5 Psion broken? We had several in our groups over the years and they were all basically wizards using the spell point system. The only potentially broken thing I ever saw was one took a feat that let him take a supernatural ability from one single form chosen when he picked the feat. He chose pixie and would be invisible while he was using metamorphosis in pixie form. Otherwise, they were, as I said before, basically spell point wizards.
On point, looking over the Mystic, it reminds me of the 2nd edition psionicist with some of the 3.5 abilities mixed in. I don't think it's overpowered...if anything, once they get a little higher level (10+), they kind of fall behind in power, but I feel their versatility balances this nicely. Sure, they can do more things in a combat than a wizard or sorcerer, but the things the wiz/sorc are doing are more powerful. Just my two cents.
And that's supported to mean anything???
Ok, so that's 2 out of what 34 UAs that have been officially published. So at this present time, there is no evidence to show that WotC will be releasing anything mystic related anytime soon.
Their are differences about the Mystic than all others that have appeared in Unearthed Arcana's, for one, this was the third Unearthed Arcana that they appeared in, that is two more than anything else that comes to mind. The first one went to level 5, the second one went to level 10, and the third went all the way to 20. This is clearly a work in progress, and it seems that it is getting close to what they are looking for.
Second, it is 28 pages long, longer than any other Unearthed Arcana they have ever published, and not by a small amount. The next biggest was 13 pages, and was about traps. So what was the third biggest Unearthed Arcana about? Psionics, and it was 10 pages long. The other psionics document published in Unearthed Arcana was 7 pages long. That is 45 pages about a single topic published across three Unearthed Arcana articles. Name one other thing they covered that even comes close, you can't because it doesn't exist.
Third, many of the players want this to happen, especially those that want to play in a world where the mystic is a major part of the world.
Seriously, why would they spend so much time working with and getting feedback on something like this if they didn't plan to add it to the game at some point?
This is all evidence that Wizards of the Coast want this to happen.
Swashbuckler and Storm fit well enough that they could be printed quickly in an official book. If, sometime between books like SCAG and EE, the 5e team decided that instead of publishing polishing and publishing UA content in small releases they wanted to publish a PHB 2, then it would make sense that you wouldn't see a lot of recent published content. Whether or not a PHB 2 is in the works, 5e embraces homebrew. You don't need official content for everything, or anything, to play the game.
Now, as far as the Mystic itself, I did like the way it read. I was initially under the impression you could only take disciplines from your archetype (other than Soul Knife). That would be a change I'd like to see, as that could open up the disciplines becoming more solid. A party full of mystics is pretty fun. I'm a big fan of Guild Wars, so if I were to run a game in that setting I might slightly modify the Mystic and make that the only available class. The class does need to be a little friendlier with the rest of the game, but its otherwise close to being publishable.
A few multicasting levels and this class made the Rogue/Assasin kill a dragon in two strikes.
Hombrewing and roleplaying a lot.
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Oh, dear lord, he did. Great luck on the player side and very bad luck in the dragon side. He got surprise and best Initiative.
Hombrewing and roleplaying a lot.
I would be alright with them reigning in the mystic a little (fewer disciplines by endgame, things liek that) but overall I really want them to keep the structure and options of the class that they've produced, there's a shocking amount of people trying to insist that they have to gut it- either remove it's ability to do a lot of things, throw out the current psi point system entirely, divide it into multiple classes. I'm really hoping they don't decide to follow that particular feedback and iterate on the current design instead.
I have a player that considers psionics to be their preferred option in these games, and they actually really liked the current iteration- I loved it because it implemented all of the different psionic concepts from 4e, including the ardent! That was huge for me, and I really hope it isn't scrapped like a lot of people seem to want it to be.
I also noticed that a lot of people are having issues grokking the balance of the class, because it seems like veryone is ignoring the psi point cost to do the thigns it does- when people insist that it's a better rogue than a rogue, they spend almost a third of their daily alotment just on sneaking around, but don't realize it's impossible to sustain it across multiple rolls without neutering yourself- you're a nova class, as a mystic, that can nova at things other than damage.
Been playing a level 1 High Elf Mystic - order of the Wu Jen. I choose the discipline Mastery of Air, along with Mastery of Fire and Mastery of Water as the level 1 bonus disciplines. furthermore I chose Mind Thrust as my psionic talent. I rolled for the ability scores and got relatively high scores, 18 dex, 18 intelligence, 16 cons, 14 strength, 15 wis and 13 charisma. So from the get go a high powered character. ( the awesomeness of rollling amirite).
In terms of what i think needs changing in the class, for starters the option to use psi points on the discipline ability wind step to gain flying speed is quite broken. Especially the ability to use it as part of your move on your turn. I personally think that this should come into effect when the Mystic is 5th level. ( Use the psi limit mechanic to achieve this ) Furthermore, I believe it should be done as an action not as part of your movement, as i think that is just too broken personally. Keeping with the discipline of air, the psychic focus on Mastery of Air is totally awesome, but i think taking no falling damage is to over powered. In the home-brew our DM did, we were 60ft in the air at a wood elf community. My character simply jumped off the rope bridge down to the forest floor when we needed to leave whilst the others struggled down rope ladders.
Also, for the case of the psychic focus mechanic, i personally think that being able to change your psychic focus as a bonus action needs nerfing. Because you get to know three disciplines at level one this ability makes for some very strong play. For instance you could be focusing on elemental water to swim through a raging river, however once you reach the other side you are presented with a huge cliff with the path you are seeking at the bottom. You can then just change your pyschic focus to air and jump down. All the while fixing ropes ect to help the rest of the party across. in order to fix this i thought that changing your pychic focus should be done on short and long rests. With the flavor being your mystic must spend the hour mediating psionically to change his pychic focus.
Otherwise this class has just been awesome, I highly recommend playing the Mystic, just so inventive and different, whilst being a very capable combat class simultaneously.
What you're saying here is that the Mystic can do some call things out of combat because of his abilities. Like a wizard can warm his own dinner and send an unseen servant to do things for him.
I don't see anything wrong with that.
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I can see how you interpret that idea but it really isnt the case.
Taking no falling damage whilst focused on elemental air could be used to break games so easily. Also mid combat. Could be used to drop away from a close call in combat by jumping off the top of the tower said combat is taking place in for instance. At level one versatile abilities like that are just broken if your trying to play a relatively realistic game of dnd.
Also the psychic focus being able to be changed as a bonus action has definite mid combat uses. I.E. being able to change your focus from elemental water to elemental fire once youve swum across the river that was blocking your party from coming across, and roasting the enemy with extra fire damage from your psychic focus that you changed before your action as a bonus action before your turn. This is one of many examples i can think of concerning the bonus action ability for psychic focus.
Over all I'm very open to expanding the class options for players. My one concern is that I'm unsure, with the game text that has been provided so far, how they fit into a regular D&D universe. There is kind of a wizard, kind of a monk flavor to many of them, but instead you have crazy mind powers. Powers that are somehow outside the weave of magic? Can someone give me a good example of a high fantasy psychic/mystic style character? They seem like they would make a good villain class.
Just play in Eberron.
Check out all my important links here.
May we live in Less Interesting Times
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