Yes, but other things don't, like Warlocks pact of the blade, spells like Arcane Weapon, the Dueling fighting style, two weapon fighting in general, etc etc. He understands what he's saying, Ophid: Ruiner wants a way to turn "unarmed attacks" into real "weapons".
See, you get it. Since they’ve already added the distinction between attacking with one hand or two, I think a restriction that you can only use certain features (sneak attack for example) with one hand is more than fair.
Oh well sure, I just wanted to make the point that you definitely can already Divine Smite with your fists.
Hypothetically, if you let hands be classified as weapons, would you allow Magic Weapon, Holy Weapon, or Elemental Weapon be cast on them? Would you allow a Swords Bard to Blade Flourish with them?
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
At first glance, these options look pretty good. The only one that really stands out as potentially OP is the rogue ability to use their bonus action to gain advantage.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Basically 5E has four types of attacks: Melee Weapon, Melee Spell, Ranged Weapon, and Ranged Spell. Unarmed strikes fall under the first. Divine Smite is keyed off of melee weapon attacks, but do not specifically call for them to be 'attacks made with a weapon' (very fine line, but there it is) unlike Rogue Sneak Attack.
Where there you go again. I want to be able to do unarmed sneak attacks as well. Judo chops and neck snaps all day. If I’m investing in this style I want the option other fighters get with a short sword. I shouldn’t be hindered because my DM played less Metal Gear Solid than me.
Nope, that doesn't work. Sneak Attacks require a finesse or ranged weapon. Hands are not weapons so they don't count.
Even if you did consider them weapons, they still wouldn't have the Finesse Tag associated with them. Even if you're a monk or a Lycan Bloodhunter, the abilities let you use Dex for your unarmed strike, not 'Your Unarmed Strikes now have the finesse tag'. It's the same thing for Strength based Rogues, you can use the strength stat, but you still have to use a weapon with the finesse tag.
That being said, for the Fun of it, Go for it! it's not going to unbalance your gameplay. Heck, backstab someone with a greatsword or spell snipe with a Chill Touch. Honestly it really doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things.
Oh well sure, I just wanted to make the point that you definitely can already Divine Smite with your fists.
Hypothetically, if you let hands be classified as weapons, would you allow Magic Weapon, Holy Weapon, or Elemental Weapon be cast on them? Would you allow a Swords Bard to Blade Flourish with them?
I think if they’ve dipped fighter or some other class that allows fighting styles, they’ve invested in unarmed fighting at the expense battle master tactics or Dual wielding, yes. I think allowing them to do things like weapon flourish and sneak attacks will make players feel good about the investment. Especially when their peers will probably be getting magical great swords and whatnot. If the player clearly values the wish fulfillment of holy punches so much that they’re willing to limit themselves by sticking to a d6 or d8 for the duration of the campaign, throw them a bone and let them feel awesome punching a giant with with magic hands or judo chopping the evil king when he’s in the bath.
Basically 5E has four types of attacks: Melee Weapon, Melee Spell, Ranged Weapon, and Ranged Spell. Unarmed strikes fall under the first. Divine Smite is keyed off of melee weapon attacks, but do not specifically call for them to be 'attacks made with a weapon' (very fine line, but there it is) unlike Rogue Sneak Attack.
Where there you go again. I want to be able to do unarmed sneak attacks as well. Judo chops and neck snaps all day. If I’m investing in this style I want the option other fighters get with a short sword. I shouldn’t be hindered because my DM played less Metal Gear Solid than me.
Nope, that doesn't work. Sneak Attacks require a finesse or ranged weapon. Hands are not weapons so they don't count.
Even if you did consider them weapons, they still wouldn't have the Finesse Tag associated with them. Even if you're a monk or a Lycan Bloodhunter, the abilities let you use Dex for your unarmed strike, not 'Your Unarmed Strikes now have the finesse tag'. It's the same thing for Strength based Rogues, you can use the strength stat, but you still have to use a weapon with the finesse tag.
That being said, for the Fun of it, Go for it! it's not going to unbalance your gameplay. Heck, backstab someone with a greatsword or spell snipe with a Chill Touch. Honestly it really doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things.
I think the unarmed style has already given the solution to that. It makes the distinction between attack with one or two hands. One hand can be a finesse weapon. Two hands not. So you’ve basically got a shortsword equivalent with you. Not particularly powerful but loads of fun to a player that wants that.
And honestly it’s not like there’s not a real word analog. Kidney punches, throat strikes, eye gauges... these are all real world applications of precision unarmed attacks that target vulnerable areas.
At first glance, these options look pretty good. The only one that really stands out as potentially OP is the rogue ability to use their bonus action to gain advantage.
It's really not that bad.
A Rogue can already 'Move' to cover, 'Hide' as a bonus action, then 'sneak attack with advantage'.
The problem starts to show when the DM needs to either say "no cover, you're screwed" or they have to go out of their way to manage terrain on top of everything else. It got so annoying for me that I started saying "you can use your 'Hide' skill to conceal your attack" just to make things go smoother.
But this, giving up Bonus Action + Movement for advantage, is actually very dangerous. Movement is a big deal to a rogue in most conditions and sitting still is generally a bad idea. It's a hefty risk vs reward, and 'Move + Hide + SA' is still the superior option for most Rogues since it will also confer some defensive cover as well.
The exception is really the Elf Scout, who is just absolutely built to abuse this mechanic with a long bow, but all in all it's not going to make that big a deal even in that case not to allow it.
I hope that WotC realise that they litteraly have gold with this...
What i mean is that a lot of people complains about 5E is the lack of choices or customisation with the classes.
Cause its pretty straightforward, you got a Class, and you get everything in that class, then you can choose an Subclass, and you have verything in that subclass and your Class, and outside spells in the spell list, there isn't any real choice of customisation.
Outside when multiclassing, a Barbarian is pretty much the same as another barbarian, even with different subclasses, since they all share the Core class features and subclass are just some added bonuses or ways.
But here WotC introducec something that could fix the stagnation feeling, we don't need new classes or new archetypes or an overly complicated systeme.
Just the possibility to swap a feature, for another at the same level!
You want to change the way a Class feel and play, without creating an entirely new subclass/class or screwing the balance?
Just release a bunch of supplements that adds features that can be swapped to the class!, making each character truely unique.
Its the same way Warlocks and Invocations work, its for this reason that even though Warlock is in the weak end of classes, it is still quite popular, its the choices you can make when growing.
All the other classes, as the same linear growth, wich makes it easy for balancing etc, but it is rigide asf, here with this Features Swap, you can finally give the same degree of freedom and growth that people enjoy with the Warlock.
I hope that WotC see the endless possibilities that this can bring, and how it can free the game of its shackles.
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"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Anyone have any idea when these will be entered into DND beyond for use as part of the character creator?
i too would like to know this. Usually they add new UA stuff within 3-5 days.
Not to mention I'm very anxious to see how they add it. Like if they'll be bumped in under the original feats in lil variant white boxes, or some other method :o
The exception is really the Elf Scout, who is just absolutely built to abuse this mechanic with a long bow, but all in all it's not going to make that big a deal even in that case not to allow it.
Any rogue that gets complacent about sniping without moving is a rogue that’s going to get shanked by a pack of Meazels. It’s rare that you need to disallow a rule/mechanic when you can turn habitual tactics into a strategic weakness.
I think the Primal Rebirth feature of the new Ranger companions might be a little much. They already have good saves and HP so it feels a crazy that if they go down in a fight I can just bring them back up for the next one by touching them.
The exception is really the Elf Scout, who is just absolutely built to abuse this mechanic with a long bow, but all in all it's not going to make that big a deal even in that case not to allow it.
Any rogue that gets complacent about sniping without moving is a rogue that’s going to get shanked by a pack of Meazels. It’s rare that you need to disallow a rule/mechanic when you can turn habitual tactics into a strategic weakness.
Absolutely, Rogues are primarily mid range strikers that operate in the 15-30ft range. Shortbow archers can start operating out to 60-70 ft. Their mobility is absolutely key for that to be able to get in, hit and get out before you get squashed. My thought on the Elf Scout is the longbow pushing that range out to 150 ft and Elven Accuracy making the to-hit chance rather high. Given the sniping range on a long bow, you could tactically maintain a safe position for several turns before having to abandon your position. Of course, taking a sniping position so far away from anyone else in a world of wandering predators or environmental accidents is a problem all its own (wink, wink)
Plus, I don't really bother discussing whether a Variant Rule is a good concept (if you disagree with the concept, don't allow/use it), just a good implementation. And I like the idea of burning both movement and bonus action for that advantage is a fair implementation.
Wouldn't the cunning aim disable the scouts reaction movement?
I don't think so, the Skirmisher ability says it allows the Rogue to move up to half your speed as a reaction when the creature ends it's turn.
The verbiage is a little wonky, which tells me that it was specifically crafted to not interact with or use the 'Movement'. Other similar effects specifically call out 'if movement allows' or 'if remaining movement' allows, which Skirmisher goes out of its way to avoid mentioning movement at all.
Why not? Your party can get you up after you go down by touching you, eh?
I'ma be that gal and say it - the Beastmaster's companion should not permanently die unless the ranger herself does. The class is built to have a companion; having the critter die the first time anything looks at it crossly deprives the Beastmaster of their entire subclass. Since DMs never give critters death saves (if you don't, by the way, you're a bad DM and you should feel bad), I'd argue that what should happen is that a critter dropped to zero goes unconscious but immediately stable, out of the fight until the ranger can get to them and heal them but only ever dead dead, Gone Forever **** You Ranger Guy, if the story truly calls for it. And not because the dice said the critter failed its save against dragonbreath and turns into a smear, but because the narrative of the moment calls for that sort of grief and trauma.
Remember, most Beastmaster players are just as invested in the pet as they are the actual ranger. They played that subclass in the first place because they wanted that bond between Man and Beast, a loyal and caring companion to travel with them. Killer DMs who constantly wreck the companion and say "Nope, sorry, he ded. Go spend your day summoning a new one" should get run over by a tractor. Let the ranger have their critter. They're building their whole character around it the way a Polearm Muenster user is building their whole character around a stick with a sharp bit on the end, and of those two one of them is generally going to be more invested in the actual role playing in your Role Playing Game.
You don't go out of your way to break a PAM fighter's halberd, ne? So why go out of your way (and EVERY FRIGGIN' DM DOES) to kill a Beastmaster's companion beast?
I do wish the druid's wild companion lasted longer.. I really want more options for druids that don't want to be the shapeshifter of the party. Ideally I'd like it to be a replacement, so I'm not constantly tempted by the dark side 😂 Maybe if it's a replacement and not an option it could be longer-lived.
Also, my 2nd level wood elf monk with 45 movement is absolutely going to multiclass to ranger now for 50' of walk, climb, and swim speeds!
A halberd does 1d10 slashing damage and has no function outside slapping someone with an axe on a stick. Maybe a situational use of stopping a character falling through a small pit, and maybe a situational pole vault. A Beast of the Earth or Sky has much functionality beyond that.
Now I’ll start from the top. Nobody can give you from 15-107 hit points if you drop at the cost of a first level spell.
Second. I’m not advocating for permanent death. I like the mechanic of the Ranger bringing the companion back through a special bond. Actually. What you say is what I want. I think that if a companion dies in combat it shouldn’t be able to just be brought up to full in the middle of the fight. Also they have much better saves now. I think the maximum is +10 to DEX CON and WIS. That’s almost as good as PCs get and it’s against all the common saves. The new beast companions are good. IMO.
And. If you put your companion in a dangerous situation. You should expect me to treat it as if you were. It’s a living creature that can die.
See, you get it. Since they’ve already added the distinction between attacking with one hand or two, I think a restriction that you can only use certain features (sneak attack for example) with one hand is more than fair.
Oh well sure, I just wanted to make the point that you definitely can already Divine Smite with your fists.
Hypothetically, if you let hands be classified as weapons, would you allow Magic Weapon, Holy Weapon, or Elemental Weapon be cast on them? Would you allow a Swords Bard to Blade Flourish with them?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
At first glance, these options look pretty good. The only one that really stands out as potentially OP is the rogue ability to use their bonus action to gain advantage.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Even if you did consider them weapons, they still wouldn't have the Finesse Tag associated with them. Even if you're a monk or a Lycan Bloodhunter, the abilities let you use Dex for your unarmed strike, not 'Your Unarmed Strikes now have the finesse tag'. It's the same thing for Strength based Rogues, you can use the strength stat, but you still have to use a weapon with the finesse tag.
That being said, for the Fun of it, Go for it! it's not going to unbalance your gameplay. Heck, backstab someone with a greatsword or spell snipe with a Chill Touch. Honestly it really doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things.
I think if they’ve dipped fighter or some other class that allows fighting styles, they’ve invested in unarmed fighting at the expense battle master tactics or Dual wielding, yes. I think allowing them to do things like weapon flourish and sneak attacks will make players feel good about the investment. Especially when their peers will probably be getting magical great swords and whatnot. If the player clearly values the wish fulfillment of holy punches so much that they’re willing to limit themselves by sticking to a d6 or d8 for the duration of the campaign, throw them a bone and let them feel awesome punching a giant with with magic hands or judo chopping the evil king when he’s in the bath.
I think the unarmed style has already given the solution to that. It makes the distinction between attack with one or two hands. One hand can be a finesse weapon. Two hands not. So you’ve basically got a shortsword equivalent with you. Not particularly powerful but loads of fun to a player that wants that.
And honestly it’s not like there’s not a real word analog. Kidney punches, throat strikes, eye gauges... these are all real world applications of precision unarmed attacks that target vulnerable areas.
It's really not that bad.
A Rogue can already 'Move' to cover, 'Hide' as a bonus action, then 'sneak attack with advantage'.
The problem starts to show when the DM needs to either say "no cover, you're screwed" or they have to go out of their way to manage terrain on top of everything else. It got so annoying for me that I started saying "you can use your 'Hide' skill to conceal your attack" just to make things go smoother.
But this, giving up Bonus Action + Movement for advantage, is actually very dangerous. Movement is a big deal to a rogue in most conditions and sitting still is generally a bad idea. It's a hefty risk vs reward, and 'Move + Hide + SA' is still the superior option for most Rogues since it will also confer some defensive cover as well.
The exception is really the Elf Scout, who is just absolutely built to abuse this mechanic with a long bow, but all in all it's not going to make that big a deal even in that case not to allow it.
I was thinking about something.
I hope that WotC realise that they litteraly have gold with this...
What i mean is that a lot of people complains about 5E is the lack of choices or customisation with the classes.
Cause its pretty straightforward, you got a Class, and you get everything in that class, then you can choose an Subclass, and you have verything in that subclass and your Class, and outside spells in the spell list, there isn't any real choice of customisation.
Outside when multiclassing, a Barbarian is pretty much the same as another barbarian, even with different subclasses, since they all share the Core class features and subclass are just some added bonuses or ways.
But here WotC introducec something that could fix the stagnation feeling, we don't need new classes or new archetypes or an overly complicated systeme.
Just the possibility to swap a feature, for another at the same level!
You want to change the way a Class feel and play, without creating an entirely new subclass/class or screwing the balance?
Just release a bunch of supplements that adds features that can be swapped to the class!, making each character truely unique.
Its the same way Warlocks and Invocations work, its for this reason that even though Warlock is in the weak end of classes, it is still quite popular, its the choices you can make when growing.
All the other classes, as the same linear growth, wich makes it easy for balancing etc, but it is rigide asf, here with this Features Swap, you can finally give the same degree of freedom and growth that people enjoy with the Warlock.
I hope that WotC see the endless possibilities that this can bring, and how it can free the game of its shackles.
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
Anyone have any idea when these will be entered into DND beyond for use as part of the character creator?
It'll probably take a few weeks, based on what little I understand of programming. I'm sure if we're all patient, it'll come soon enough. :)
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
i too would like to know this. Usually they add new UA stuff within 3-5 days.
Not to mention I'm very anxious to see how they add it. Like if they'll be bumped in under the original feats in lil variant white boxes, or some other method :o
Normally, UA isn't a huge revamp of how core character classes work.
Expect this one to take longer than the Artificer did to go up. It's not gonna be a handful of days.
Please do not contact or message me.
Any rogue that gets complacent about sniping without moving is a rogue that’s going to get shanked by a pack of Meazels. It’s rare that you need to disallow a rule/mechanic when you can turn habitual tactics into a strategic weakness.
Wouldn't the cunning aim disable the scouts reaction movement?
I think the Primal Rebirth feature of the new Ranger companions might be a little much. They already have good saves and HP so it feels a crazy that if they go down in a fight I can just bring them back up for the next one by touching them.
Absolutely, Rogues are primarily mid range strikers that operate in the 15-30ft range. Shortbow archers can start operating out to 60-70 ft. Their mobility is absolutely key for that to be able to get in, hit and get out before you get squashed. My thought on the Elf Scout is the longbow pushing that range out to 150 ft and Elven Accuracy making the to-hit chance rather high. Given the sniping range on a long bow, you could tactically maintain a safe position for several turns before having to abandon your position. Of course, taking a sniping position so far away from anyone else in a world of wandering predators or environmental accidents is a problem all its own (wink, wink)
Plus, I don't really bother discussing whether a Variant Rule is a good concept (if you disagree with the concept, don't allow/use it), just a good implementation. And I like the idea of burning both movement and bonus action for that advantage is a fair implementation.
I don't think so, the Skirmisher ability says it allows the Rogue to move up to half your speed as a reaction when the creature ends it's turn.
The verbiage is a little wonky, which tells me that it was specifically crafted to not interact with or use the 'Movement'. Other similar effects specifically call out 'if movement allows' or 'if remaining movement' allows, which Skirmisher goes out of its way to avoid mentioning movement at all.
Why not? Your party can get you up after you go down by touching you, eh?
I'ma be that gal and say it - the Beastmaster's companion should not permanently die unless the ranger herself does. The class is built to have a companion; having the critter die the first time anything looks at it crossly deprives the Beastmaster of their entire subclass. Since DMs never give critters death saves (if you don't, by the way, you're a bad DM and you should feel bad), I'd argue that what should happen is that a critter dropped to zero goes unconscious but immediately stable, out of the fight until the ranger can get to them and heal them but only ever dead dead, Gone Forever **** You Ranger Guy, if the story truly calls for it. And not because the dice said the critter failed its save against dragonbreath and turns into a smear, but because the narrative of the moment calls for that sort of grief and trauma.
Remember, most Beastmaster players are just as invested in the pet as they are the actual ranger. They played that subclass in the first place because they wanted that bond between Man and Beast, a loyal and caring companion to travel with them. Killer DMs who constantly wreck the companion and say "Nope, sorry, he ded. Go spend your day summoning a new one" should get run over by a tractor. Let the ranger have their critter. They're building their whole character around it the way a Polearm Muenster user is building their whole character around a stick with a sharp bit on the end, and of those two one of them is generally going to be more invested in the actual role playing in your Role Playing Game.
You don't go out of your way to break a PAM fighter's halberd, ne? So why go out of your way (and EVERY FRIGGIN' DM DOES) to kill a Beastmaster's companion beast?
Please do not contact or message me.
I love everything about this UA.
I do wish the druid's wild companion lasted longer.. I really want more options for druids that don't want to be the shapeshifter of the party. Ideally I'd like it to be a replacement, so I'm not constantly tempted by the dark side 😂 Maybe if it's a replacement and not an option it could be longer-lived.
Also, my 2nd level wood elf monk with 45 movement is absolutely going to multiclass to ranger now for 50' of walk, climb, and swim speeds!
A halberd does 1d10 slashing damage and has no function outside slapping someone with an axe on a stick. Maybe a situational use of stopping a character falling through a small pit, and maybe a situational pole vault. A Beast of the Earth or Sky has much functionality beyond that.
Now I’ll start from the top. Nobody can give you from 15-107 hit points if you drop at the cost of a first level spell.
Second. I’m not advocating for permanent death. I like the mechanic of the Ranger bringing the companion back through a special bond. Actually. What you say is what I want. I think that if a companion dies in combat it shouldn’t be able to just be brought up to full in the middle of the fight. Also they have much better saves now. I think the maximum is +10 to DEX CON and WIS. That’s almost as good as PCs get and it’s against all the common saves. The new beast companions are good. IMO.
And. If you put your companion in a dangerous situation. You should expect me to treat it as if you were. It’s a living creature that can die.
I wonder when can we use them in D&D Beyond