Archer fighting style +2 to hit / Battle Master at lvl 3 for Superiority Dice and Precision Attack / lvl 4 Sharpshooter feat.
lvl 5 extra attack.
The idea of picking a hand crossbow is this. Thanks to crossbow expert, if you attack with a 1 handed weapon (a hand crossbow is a 1 handed weapon) for your action, then you can attack with the hand crossbow for your bonus action, and since crossbow expert ignores the loading feature, you could do this, giving you 2 attacks at lvl 1, and thanks to the archer fighting style and a decent DEX, you're probably looking at 5-7+ to hit.
At lvl 4 you get Sharpshooter (-5 to hit +10 dmg), which allows you to ignore cover and also allows you to use the hand crossbow at its longest range 30-120 without getting disadvantage. With your big + to hit the -5 isn't too bad, and you can use the Precision Attack to otherwise hit on the times you might miss. Each hit is looking at adding 10dmg so you could potentially be looking at 20-35 dmg a turn.
At lvl 5 you get an extra attack bringing you up to 2 attacks for your action and 1 attack for your bonus = 3 attacks. This also means I could potentially get 5 attacks a turn if I was to action surge.
Is this a decent build? Are there better archer builds? Is Battle Master the best choice or should I be looking at something like Rune Knight for the better dmg? Or perhaps Arcane Archer?
Ignoring the loading property is all well and good, but a hand crossbow still has the ammunition property. If you have one in each hand, you have no free hand to use to place new ammunition in them. They are still a single shot weapon, not a semi-automatic pistol. There’s a general idea (around the boards here) that you might be able to start with two of them pre-loaded, and use that for the first round. Then drop one, so you can continue shooting in the second round.
Ignoring the loading property is all well and good, but a hand crossbow still has the ammunition property. If you have one in each hand, you have no free hand to use to place new ammunition in them. They are still a single shot weapon, not a semi-automatic pistol. There’s a general idea (around the boards here) that you might be able to start with two of them pre-loaded, and use that for the first round. Then drop one, so you can continue shooting in the second round.
Sorry, I don't think I explained well in my OP. I'm talking about using 1 hand crossbow with my other hand free. I shoot once with my action and then reload it and use my bonus action. I may be wrong but that's what I understood Crossbow Expert to allow me to do.
Ignoring the loading property is all well and good, but a hand crossbow still has the ammunition property. If you have one in each hand, you have no free hand to use to place new ammunition in them. They are still a single shot weapon, not a semi-automatic pistol. There’s a general idea (around the boards here) that you might be able to start with two of them pre-loaded, and use that for the first round. Then drop one, so you can continue shooting in the second round.
Sorry, I don't think I explained well in my OP. I'm talking about using 1 hand crossbow with my other hand free. I shoot once with my action and then reload it and use my bonus action. I may be wrong but that's what I understood Crossbow Expert to allow me to do.
Ignoring the loading property is all well and good, but a hand crossbow still has the ammunition property. If you have one in each hand, you have no free hand to use to place new ammunition in them. They are still a single shot weapon, not a semi-automatic pistol. There’s a general idea (around the boards here) that you might be able to start with two of them pre-loaded, and use that for the first round. Then drop one, so you can continue shooting in the second round.
Sorry, I don't think I explained well in my OP. I'm talking about using 1 hand crossbow with my other hand free. I shoot once with my action and then reload it and use my bonus action. I may be wrong but that's what I understood Crossbow Expert to allow me to do.
Yes you can do that!
Thanks! What are your opinions on the build? Is it a good idea or would I be better served taking something like a heavy crossbow instead?
Ignoring the loading property is all well and good, but a hand crossbow still has the ammunition property. If you have one in each hand, you have no free hand to use to place new ammunition in them. They are still a single shot weapon, not a semi-automatic pistol. There’s a general idea (around the boards here) that you might be able to start with two of them pre-loaded, and use that for the first round. Then drop one, so you can continue shooting in the second round.
Sorry, I don't think I explained well in my OP. I'm talking about using 1 hand crossbow with my other hand free. I shoot once with my action and then reload it and use my bonus action. I may be wrong but that's what I understood Crossbow Expert to allow me to do.
Yes you can do that!
Thanks! What are your opinions on the build? Is it a good idea or would I be better served taking something like a heavy crossbow instead?
I like it for damage for sure...its a top damage dealer on average.
Utility wise you might want to look at Menacing attack to keep things away from the squishy things.
Strategy is you shoot then move next to/behind them and the creature cannot move any closer to them if they are frightened. They also get DIS on all their attacks so its just a good debuff.
Trip attack is nice because with CBE you can trip them at 5ft and get ADV on your shots at 5ft thanks to the feature that removes the DIS when you shoot a ranged attack at 5ft.
They go prone and you can shoot them for ADV.....really helps offset that -5 penalty from Sharpshooter.
Ignoring the loading property is all well and good, but a hand crossbow still has the ammunition property. If you have one in each hand, you have no free hand to use to place new ammunition in them. They are still a single shot weapon, not a semi-automatic pistol. There’s a general idea (around the boards here) that you might be able to start with two of them pre-loaded, and use that for the first round. Then drop one, so you can continue shooting in the second round.
Sorry, I don't think I explained well in my OP. I'm talking about using 1 hand crossbow with my other hand free. I shoot once with my action and then reload it and use my bonus action. I may be wrong but that's what I understood Crossbow Expert to allow me to do.
Yes you can do that!
Thanks! What are your opinions on the build? Is it a good idea or would I be better served taking something like a heavy crossbow instead?
I like it for damage for sure...its a top damage dealer on average.
Utility wise you might want to look at Menacing attack to keep things away from the squishy things.
Strategy is you shoot then move next to/behind them and the creature cannot move any closer to them if they are frightened. They also get DIS on all their attacks so its just a good debuff.
Trip attack is nice because with CBE you can trip them at 5ft and get ADV on your shots at 5ft thanks to the feature that removes the DIS when you shoot a ranged attack at 5ft.
They go prone and you can shoot them for ADV.....really helps offset that -5 penalty from Sharpshooter.
It's a strong build. It's not very original though. It's one of the most known builds for maximizing damage etc. So if that's what you want, then yes, it's a good build.
It's often been said a CBE+SS battlemaster is one of the strongest builds around. Almost feels like fishing for compliments to ask if it's a good build. But I digress.
I think a healthier build is the EA SS samurai build. Yes, this one has also been done to death, and is also considered very, very powerful.
Consider the following: the game is designed so that at early levels you're doing one attack. By doing two thanks to v.human with CBE, you're already putting out what's potentially double the expected amount. You're practically twice as strong without any drawback, and this can seem invalidating for other players in combat, especially since this is at a range. When you reach lvl 4, you'll grab SS. Now your range has increased, and your nova's insane. Other players might wonder why they even bothered to show up to the session if your damage in one turn outdoes their damage in the whole encounter put together.
By contrast, the EA+SS samurai follows the expected curve. At tier 1, they can only attack once. at lvl 4, you pick up EA, so now your DEX mod goes up to 4. Again, this is following the expected curve of the game, you're keeping up in pace with everyone, and everyone's keeping pace with you. But come lvl 6, you pick up SS. Now, turns where you use fighting spirit and action surge are insane! You pump out that damage with super advantage, which is honestly even better than using superiority dice for precision. Heck, you even have the benefit of starting out with dark vision, and your choice of elf or half-elf sub race for other goodies.
This does mean that the samurai needs to reach lvl 6 to come online with SS, but at least is on curve every step of the way. If you know a campaign is only 1-5, then yeah, the CBE BM is better even if arguably unhealthy for the game.
CBE/SS Battlemaster is pretty close to king of DPR but TBF thats about all they have.
Honestly as a DM this is easy for me to combat as I just throw more meatbags at the party and they go for the guy who is doing the most damage.
What I dislike about Samurai is it is just so damn boring....you have 3 turns a day in which you are doing your thing....which is not a lot in certain games with 4-5 encounters.
At least Battlemaster you can do other things (trip attack, menacing, push, etc...) where you can at least help the others out. Samurai is the ultimate selfish build to me as its all about that nova and then you contribute so little after that.
The battlemaster can do other things, but will this build do so? If I were the player in question, I'd weigh the options as such "Do I spend a superiorty die to turn that missed SS'd shot into a hit.... or do I spend it on a DC13 STR check against that enemy which probably has a decent STR score?" The choice is clear to me because of how much weight each individual shot has in tier 1. Given that their DEX is behind the curve at lvl 5, they will probably rely even more on precision attack.
All I'm saying is that both builds are selfish, and while another can access other options, it's more likely they'll just go for DPR and there's nothing wrong with that decision as it's the best decision all things considered. You know what, most fighters are selfish, and there's nothing wrong with that.
The battlemaster can do other things, but will this build do so? If I were the player in question, I'd weigh the options as such "Do I spend a superiorty die to turn that missed SS'd shot into a hit.... or do I spend it on a DC13 STR check against that enemy which probably has a decent STR score?" The choice is clear to me because of how much weight each individual shot has in tier 1. Given that their DEX is behind the curve at lvl 5, they will probably rely even more on precision attack.
All I'm saying is that both builds are selfish, and while another can access other options, it's more likely they'll just go for DPR and there's nothing wrong with that decision as it's the best decision all things considered. You know what, most fighters are selfish, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Naturally the BM at least has the option to eventually help the team more.
Some uses of the die don't require the save (Bait and switch is one).
Samurai just doesn't even have an option for it was all I was saying.
That and it's very boring to me to play.
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Hi guys, first time playing a fighter or an archer so was hoping for some advice on whether this would work or not?
I would like to go with the following up to lvl 5:
The idea of picking a hand crossbow is this. Thanks to crossbow expert, if you attack with a 1 handed weapon (a hand crossbow is a 1 handed weapon) for your action, then you can attack with the hand crossbow for your bonus action, and since crossbow expert ignores the loading feature, you could do this, giving you 2 attacks at lvl 1, and thanks to the archer fighting style and a decent DEX, you're probably looking at 5-7+ to hit.
At lvl 4 you get Sharpshooter (-5 to hit +10 dmg), which allows you to ignore cover and also allows you to use the hand crossbow at its longest range 30-120 without getting disadvantage. With your big + to hit the -5 isn't too bad, and you can use the Precision Attack to otherwise hit on the times you might miss. Each hit is looking at adding 10dmg so you could potentially be looking at 20-35 dmg a turn.
At lvl 5 you get an extra attack bringing you up to 2 attacks for your action and 1 attack for your bonus = 3 attacks. This also means I could potentially get 5 attacks a turn if I was to action surge.
Is this a decent build? Are there better archer builds? Is Battle Master the best choice or should I be looking at something like Rune Knight for the better dmg? Or perhaps Arcane Archer?
Ignoring the loading property is all well and good, but a hand crossbow still has the ammunition property. If you have one in each hand, you have no free hand to use to place new ammunition in them. They are still a single shot weapon, not a semi-automatic pistol. There’s a general idea (around the boards here) that you might be able to start with two of them pre-loaded, and use that for the first round. Then drop one, so you can continue shooting in the second round.
If you just hold one handcrossbow you can do the two attacks at level 1 yeah.
At level 5 you are making 3 attacks per round with the sharpshooter damage if you want
Precision die will help you offset the penalty (along with archery style) and remember you can roll first before deciding to use the precision die.
Sorry, I don't think I explained well in my OP. I'm talking about using 1 hand crossbow with my other hand free. I shoot once with my action and then reload it and use my bonus action. I may be wrong but that's what I understood Crossbow Expert to allow me to do.
Yes you can do that!
Thanks! What are your opinions on the build? Is it a good idea or would I be better served taking something like a heavy crossbow instead?
I like it for damage for sure...its a top damage dealer on average.
Utility wise you might want to look at Menacing attack to keep things away from the squishy things.
Strategy is you shoot then move next to/behind them and the creature cannot move any closer to them if they are frightened. They also get DIS on all their attacks so its just a good debuff.
Trip attack is nice because with CBE you can trip them at 5ft and get ADV on your shots at 5ft thanks to the feature that removes the DIS when you shoot a ranged attack at 5ft.
They go prone and you can shoot them for ADV.....really helps offset that -5 penalty from Sharpshooter.
Awesome advice, cheers!
It's a strong build. It's not very original though. It's one of the most known builds for maximizing damage etc. So if that's what you want, then yes, it's a good build.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
It's often been said a CBE+SS battlemaster is one of the strongest builds around. Almost feels like fishing for compliments to ask if it's a good build. But I digress.
I think a healthier build is the EA SS samurai build. Yes, this one has also been done to death, and is also considered very, very powerful.
Consider the following: the game is designed so that at early levels you're doing one attack. By doing two thanks to v.human with CBE, you're already putting out what's potentially double the expected amount. You're practically twice as strong without any drawback, and this can seem invalidating for other players in combat, especially since this is at a range. When you reach lvl 4, you'll grab SS. Now your range has increased, and your nova's insane. Other players might wonder why they even bothered to show up to the session if your damage in one turn outdoes their damage in the whole encounter put together.
By contrast, the EA+SS samurai follows the expected curve. At tier 1, they can only attack once. at lvl 4, you pick up EA, so now your DEX mod goes up to 4. Again, this is following the expected curve of the game, you're keeping up in pace with everyone, and everyone's keeping pace with you. But come lvl 6, you pick up SS. Now, turns where you use fighting spirit and action surge are insane! You pump out that damage with super advantage, which is honestly even better than using superiority dice for precision. Heck, you even have the benefit of starting out with dark vision, and your choice of elf or half-elf sub race for other goodies.
This does mean that the samurai needs to reach lvl 6 to come online with SS, but at least is on curve every step of the way. If you know a campaign is only 1-5, then yeah, the CBE BM is better even if arguably unhealthy for the game.
CBE/SS Battlemaster is pretty close to king of DPR but TBF thats about all they have.
Honestly as a DM this is easy for me to combat as I just throw more meatbags at the party and they go for the guy who is doing the most damage.
What I dislike about Samurai is it is just so damn boring....you have 3 turns a day in which you are doing your thing....which is not a lot in certain games with 4-5 encounters.
At least Battlemaster you can do other things (trip attack, menacing, push, etc...) where you can at least help the others out. Samurai is the ultimate selfish build to me as its all about that nova and then you contribute so little after that.
The battlemaster can do other things, but will this build do so? If I were the player in question, I'd weigh the options as such "Do I spend a superiorty die to turn that missed SS'd shot into a hit.... or do I spend it on a DC13 STR check against that enemy which probably has a decent STR score?" The choice is clear to me because of how much weight each individual shot has in tier 1. Given that their DEX is behind the curve at lvl 5, they will probably rely even more on precision attack.
All I'm saying is that both builds are selfish, and while another can access other options, it's more likely they'll just go for DPR and there's nothing wrong with that decision as it's the best decision all things considered. You know what, most fighters are selfish, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Naturally the BM at least has the option to eventually help the team more.
Some uses of the die don't require the save (Bait and switch is one).
Samurai just doesn't even have an option for it was all I was saying.
That and it's very boring to me to play.